Reality check!

Presently, the AAC doesn't offer enough TV or bowl money to interest any schools of import.

That could change (and perhaps even soon) and, if it does, it will put BYU in play.

BSU will not be in play. They have too good a deal with the MWC and ESPN will not be interested in blowing up their client, the MWC. Besides, academically, BSU is a glorified community college.

If BYU starts openly talking with the AAC (and, by implication, both start talking with ESPN), then this will also act as a threat from BYU to the Big XII that it will not wait on the next "round" of expansion. This will force Texas' and Oklahoma's hand on the matter, and they may decide to add BYU.

That BYU enters the AAC or any other conference without special conditions is a non-starter. They will need special conditions.

That the AAC might take CSU or AFA (without BYU) is also a non-starter. First, it's debatable about whether they add enough value. Second, ESPN has no interest in taking down the MWC and, so, ESPN would never join with the AAC to sweeten the pot to make it happen.

(10-04-2015 01:38 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-04-2015 01:24 PM)Pirate1 Wrote:  JMHO : Terry Holland came to ECU in 2004 and took ECU to a higher level of standards. I know he had some hiring failures but he hit more home runs than not such as getting Skip Holtz for football. Pushed the end zone expansion and empowered the Student Pirate Club now 10,000 plus and the Olympic sports facilities upgrades are keys to ECU's development. Visionary leaders that support coaches and a culture of winning help build a fan base by getting people to believe it can happen.

What exactly is that and could that be the main thing that propelled the ECU attendance to the 50K range?

Student Boosters

(10-04-2015 01:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-04-2015 01:22 PM)DowdyPirate Wrote:  

(10-04-2015 11:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-04-2015 11:02 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-04-2015 10:51 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Tulane is in one heck of a down cycle then.

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that's what I was thinking. I just don't get the Tulane and SMU love on this board. Those 2 schools (and Tulsa) will never have a season where they average even 20k per game. (Actual fans at the game) I know SMU and Tulane are notoriously dishonest at counting fans. I know for a fact that each played a home game in the past 2 seasons with less than 5,000 fans at the game. Big markets, good schools does not equal fan support or success in college football. Even when Tulsa was on a roll and wining big games like at Notre Dame on NBC, no one in Oklahoma even noticed. I lived there during that period. Having lived in big cities like Dallas and Houston and others I can tell you which schools simply cannot ever get the markets fan support/interest. We've got to quit swimming up stream in our thinking that a school in a big city equals potential. It does not .cheers!

The thing is city schools have a MASSIVE potential. ECU fans love to brag about attendance (rightfully so), but what many don't know is that's a fairly recent development. In 2002, ECU was a typical G5 with attendance of 29K. In fact, the attendance rose slightly from there, but remained good---but hardly spectacular, for several more years---

2003-33K
2004-30K
2005-33K

It was 2006 when the real step up occurred.

2006-37K
2008-41K
2009-42K
2010-41K
2011-59K
2012-50K
2013-43K
2014-44K

The difference wasn't added capacity (the stadium had a capacity of 43K starting in the mid-1990's). In 2006 the team was ok---but not great (7-6, and just 5-6 the prior year). So, the question is---what happened in 2006 that got things really rolling at ECU? Whataever it was---maybe the rest of us should use that info and figure out how to adapt it to our specific situations. BillyBobobby---Any insights to what they did there to get the attendance to explode in 2006?

Why didn't you look at 1999? Whyd you decide to start at our worst year since WW2? In 1999 we averaged something around 40k.

I actually took the numbers from a post I saw elsewhere---but Im assuming they started there because that's where the eventual climb to the 50K range begins.

They dropped there because we were the worst team in fbs (besides Tulane of course who we can always count on).

1999 40,082
We averaged around 37k for the 90's and 2000 20001

(10-04-2015 01:39 PM)Enriquillo Wrote:  Reality check!

Presently, the AAC doesn't offer enough TV or bowl money to interest any schools of import.

That could change (and perhaps even soon) and, if it does, it will put BYU in play.

BSU will not be in play. They have too good a deal with the MWC and ESPN will not be interested in blowing up their client, the MWC. Besides, academically, BSU is a glorified community college.

If BYU starts openly talking with the AAC (and, by implication, both start talking with ESPN), then this will also act as a threat from BYU to the Big XII that it will not wait on the next "round" of expansion. This will force Texas' and Oklahoma's hand on the matter, and they may decide to add BYU.

That BYU enters the AAC or any other conference without special conditions is a non-starter. They will need special conditions.

That the AAC might take CSU or AFA (without BYU) is also a non-starter. First, it's debatable about whether they add enough value. Second, ESPN has no interest in taking down the MWC and, so, ESPN would never join with the AAC to sweeten the pot to make it happen.

If ESPN not interested someone else maybe, money talks. Another suitor may not have the same sensibilities in keeping MWC intact, as ESPN.

I'd like to see league have all the academies. Them, BYU, and Boise are the only ones that would really move the meter nationally.

Army Air force BYU and Boise would be sweet. Not sure how the ACC can get them. I wish they could. BYU has structured all the contracts with release clauses for a p5 conf only invite. I think the AAC should sign a scheduling alliance which can then turn into a full invite in the future.

I would not be opposed to taking Air Force and Colorado St---and augmenting the additions with a BYU scheduling agreement similar to what Notre Dame has with the ACC. BYU would add its Olympics to the AAC and schedule 4-5 games a year vs AAC schools. I think we really add to our media value by making those move. Snapping Wichita onto the conference would also be a nice way to improve value at little cost.

West
Air Force
Colorado St
Tulsa
Houston
SMU
Tulane
Navy


East

Cinci
Memphis
UCF
USF
ECU
Temple
UConn

BYU, and Wichita as Olympic members. Gives you BYU, UConn, SMU, Temple, Memphis, Colorado St, and Wichita as schools that consistently vie for NCAA bids. Thats nearly half the league. Houston and Tulsa will be challenging from the middle for bids (as will other schools) from time to time.

Since we're doing this again...this works well in NCAA 14...

Zipper divisions:

Memphis
UCF
BYU
Houston
East Carolina
Temple

Cincinnati
USF
Boise St
SMU
Navy
Uconn


Locked cross overs:

Memphis-Cincinnati, UCF-USF, BYU-Boise St, Houston-SMU, East Carolina-Navy, Temple-UConn


Reasons for the set up:

Everyone gets a regional "rival"
Due to that the travel is as even between schools as possible
Memphis is in the same division as the dbag BYU (fun rivalry to develop)
UCF is in the same division as East Carolina (CUSA rivalry)
3 remaining BE schools in the same division
SMU and Navy in the same division (trophy game)


It was pretty close to the #5 conference most years and was #5 one year, but that was with Memphis as #1

When the big 12 fails to make the championship playoff they will add another school probably Cincy and BYU

Due to NCAA political bull**** they wont expand the playoff
To 6 or 8 like they should.
The big 12 will just expand and probably steal Boise & BYU or Cinci

The p5 don't like our conference because we're a threat to them so they wont expand the playoff knowing that the b12 will add 2 an weaken our league.

Unless the networks are willing to give a ton more money, expansion isn't going to make sense. From a political standpoint, add Army and Air Force.

We could easily add 1-3 basketball schools though.

Ive been saying to add Air Force and CSU for quite some time. It brings us to 14 but more so it strengthens our western divisions. After that, we sign a scheduling agreement with Army. 6 games a year would be good, and they play two of those teams already so its really only adding 4 more games.

The simple fact is that Academies have a following and would help our brand recognition. If Army ever wants in, they should be automatically added. Do they help our strength of schedule, no but they do give us an identity. We are the American.

Furthermore, CSU and Air Force are always in the top half of the MWC and usually in the top 5. Weakening our biggest compeititor going into contract negotiations is always a good idea.

West:
CSU, Air Force, Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane and Memphis

East:
Uconn, Temple, Navy, ECU, Cinci, USF and UCF

Navy would want to remain a football only, so we need one Basktball school to balance. I would think VCU would be ideal.

(10-04-2015 11:07 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(10-04-2015 11:02 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(10-04-2015 10:51 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(10-04-2015 10:38 AM)rjglassett Wrote:  

(10-04-2015 09:34 AM)CornellCoog Wrote:  I'd rather get rid of a few teams than add any more dead weight.

There really isn't dead weight in the conference...just teams in down cycles.

The American might be a little weaker than Big East 2.0 but it's consistently solid and has strong basketball.

Tulane is in one heck of a down cycle then.

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that's what I was thinking. I just don't get the Tulane and SMU love on this board. Those 2 schools (and Tulsa) will never have a season where they average even 20k per game. (Actual fans at the game) I know SMU and Tulane are notoriously dishonest at counting fans. I know for a fact that each played a home game in the past 2 seasons with less than 5,000 fans at the game. Big markets, good schools does not equal fan support or success in college football. Even when Tulsa was on a roll and wining big games like at Notre Dame on NBC, no one in Oklahoma even noticed. I lived there during that period. Having lived in big cities like Dallas and Houston and others I can tell you which schools simply cannot ever get the markets fan support/interest. We've got to quit swimming up stream in our thinking that a school in a big city equals potential. It does not .cheers!

Those three are highly regarded academic schools with names the casual fan has heard of. They are here because they add to the league recognition and also fit Navy. Its no surprise Navy chose to be in the West and it wasn't because of Houston or Memphis.

Lmao. Navy wanted a couple of easy wins. Toolame and SMOO provide that.

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First of all, expansion to 43,000 back in 1996 was fed by consistent attendance in the mid 30's and we had over 40K after that expansion. 29,000 is the low end; that's during the Thompson era when we won 3 games in two seasons. So while we were talking crap to Memphis about that night they had 4,300 and they said we would too if we sucked, that's why we responded with an emphatic 'no, we wouldn't'.

Going from 43k to 50k IMO had a lot to do with the age of our alums from the 1991 season. They were now far along enough in their careers to afford tickets and donations and had families to bring to games.... Many of those single students that went to the Peach Bowl were now buying tix for their families of four or five or six people. Terry Holland invigorated that part of out fan base, and now 264 is packed with families driving from Raleigh and Durham and Greensboro and Charlotte on game days. Winning can have an affect on more than one generation of fans.

(10-04-2015 07:14 PM)Chappy Wrote:  First of all, expansion to 43,000 back in 1996 was fed by consistent attendance in the mid 30's and we had over 40K after that expansion. 29,000 is the low end; that's during the Thompson era when we won 3 games in two seasons. So while we were talking crap to Memphis about that night they had 4,300 and they said we would too if we sucked, that's why we responded with an emphatic 'no, we wouldn't'.

Going from 43k to 50k IMO had a lot to do with the age of our alums from the 1991 season. They were now far along enough in their careers to afford tickets and donations and had families to bring to games.... Many of those single students that went to the Peach Bowl were now buying tix for their families of four or five or six people. Terry Holland invigorated that part of out fan base, and now 264 is packed with families driving from Raleigh and Durham and Greensboro and Charlotte on game days. Winning can have an affect on more than one generation of fans.

That's intersting take. I hadn't considered the age of a certain era of fans.

(10-04-2015 03:16 PM)MemphisTigerFreak Wrote:  Since we're doing this again...this works well in NCAA 14...

Zipper divisions:

Memphis
UCF
BYU
Houston
East Carolina
Temple

Cincinnati
USF
Boise St
SMU
Navy
Uconn


Locked cross overs:

Memphis-Cincinnati, UCF-USF, BYU-Boise St, Houston-SMU, East Carolina-Navy, Temple-UConn


Reasons for the set up:

Everyone gets a regional "rival"
Due to that the travel is as even between schools as possible
Memphis is in the same division as the dbag BYU (fun rivalry to develop)
UCF is in the same division as East Carolina (CUSA rivalry)
3 remaining BE schools in the same division
SMU and Navy in the same division (trophy game)


It was pretty close to the #5 conference most years and was #5 one year, but that was with Memphis as #1

I like that, I think Memphis and BYU fans really dislike the other and want to take a shot at the other team every year. I could see this being good rivalry game. Memphis and BYU home crowds would be up for the games. Friday night sold out stadiums on ESPN.

(10-04-2015 06:38 AM)DeeHee33 Wrote:  Getting Air Force and Colorado State in the AAC .. Then letting Big 12 expand with Boise State and Byu. Now this weakens the MWC conference and now the AAC is in position to become the 6 power conference ?

CSU is not spending $220M on a football stadium to move laterally...

The future is 14 teams per conference. While adding the next 2 teams make everyone in the AAC conference sign a new agreement that they will not leave until at least 2025.. (Something similar to what the ACC schools did) Let's see who is committed to the league or who is just waiting to get out . That's the problem I see with the AAC its not enough focus on sticking together and building the conference instead everyone is getting in position to leave the conference . The focus should be on destroying MWC and getting the AAC in position to be successful

(10-04-2015 08:35 PM)panama Wrote:  

(10-04-2015 06:38 AM)DeeHee33 Wrote:  Getting Air Force and Colorado State in the AAC .. Then letting Big 12 expand with Boise State and Byu. Now this weakens the MWC conference and now the AAC is in position to become the 6 power conference ?

CSU is not spending $220M on a football stadium to move laterally...

Sometimes you have to move sideways before you get a chance to move up ...