I think we need to be realistic with some of this stuff. The ACC and SEC are not going to lose schools to one another. That's a non-starter. Too much politics, too many complications...

I think it's more likely that both will get a share of the imploding Big 12. The interesting thing to me is I wonder if the ACC is big enough for both North Carolina and Texas?

Probably the best for the ACC and B12 is a strategic alliance between the Big 12 South + Kansas and the southern ACC football schools + WVU. The Big 12 gets its desperately needed markets and exposure outside Texas and the ACC schools get a great football league that also isn't too shabby at basketball either. Throw in a conference network and you have a viable 5th power conference

Miami
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Louisville
West Virginia
Virginia Tech

Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
Texas Christian
Kansas

(09-06-2015 06:01 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Probably the best for the ACC and B12 is a strategic alliance between the Big 12 South + Kansas and the southern ACC football schools + WVU. The Big 12 gets its desperately needed markets and exposure outside Texas and the ACC schools get a great football league that also isn't too shabby at basketball either. Throw in a conference network and you have a viable 5th power conference

Miami
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Louisville
West Virginia
Virginia Tech

Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Tech
Baylor
Texas Christian
Kansas

No offense 10th, but why in the world would the ACC want to do that? The ideal situation would be to get to an 12 team conference by adding Missouri and Arkansas to the current Big 12.

No offense but why in the world would Arkansas and Missouri both want to return to that dumpster fire when the reason they both left to begin with is still alive and well in Austin.

On the other hand, it's clear there is a huge divide in the ACC between the schools that are all in for football and the ones that consider FB nothing but a quaint distraction until basketball and lacrosse seasons arrive.

Since FB drives the bus, why continue to hitch your wagon to a bunch of teams with little more than token commitment to the sport?

(09-06-2015 08:49 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  No offense but why in the world would Arkansas and Missouri both want to return to that dumpster fire when the reason they both left to begin with is still alive and well in Austin.

On the other hand, it's clear there is a huge divide in the ACC between the schools that are all in for football and the ones that consider FB nothing but a quaint distraction until basketball and lacrosse seasons arrive.

Since FB drives the bus, why continue to hitch your wagon to a bunch of teams with little more than token commitment to the sport?

Yep 10th I'd still be happy with Florida State and Clemson, but if it must be markets then Florida State and Virginia Tech, or Oklahoma and Virginia Tech.

(09-06-2015 08:49 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  No offense but why in the world would Arkansas and Missouri both want to return to that dumpster fire when the reason they both left to begin with is still alive and well in Austin.

On the other hand, it's clear there is a huge divide in the ACC between the schools that are all in for football and the ones that consider FB nothing but a quaint distraction until basketball and lacrosse seasons arrive.

Since FB drives the bus, why continue to hitch your wagon to a bunch of teams with little more than token commitment to the sport?

Huge divide?

Most of you have no clue as to how and why the ACC functions so well. It's easy to recogonize those individuals. They are the ones that continue to lump Florida State and Clemson together like they were two peas in a pod.

(09-06-2015 09:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 08:49 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  No offense but why in the world would Arkansas and Missouri both want to return to that dumpster fire when the reason they both left to begin with is still alive and well in Austin.

On the other hand, it's clear there is a huge divide in the ACC between the schools that are all in for football and the ones that consider FB nothing but a quaint distraction until basketball and lacrosse seasons arrive.

Since FB drives the bus, why continue to hitch your wagon to a bunch of teams with little more than token commitment to the sport?

Huge divide?

Most of you have no clue as to how and why the ACC functions so well. It's easy to recogonize those individuals. They are the ones that continue to lump Florida State and Clemson together like they were two peas in a pod.

You must have never had those stupid California Achievement Tests in grade school where they had the pictures and it said, some of these things are not like the others? Only Chapel Hill thinks that all of those schools simply want to be with you. Time will tell. If they truly want to stick with you I'll rep you. But I really don't think they'd stay if ESPN permitted them other options.

(08-02-2015 02:27 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 12:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 11:45 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 09:08 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-25-2015 06:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ************************************************************************
It's the 25th of July 2015. As of right now the SEC should only take Oklahoma. Then if Texas wants in fine. If not we have three spots left for North Carolina, Duke and Virginia. We stop at 20.

That's only 18 though if we take 4. Or do you mean we should leave a couple of spots open in case solid programs come calling?

Personally, I would rather go to 16 or to 20. I have a feeling that 18 is going to be a very awkward number to work with in the long haul. I was in favor of going to 16 last time rather than 14 for that very reason.

You SEC people should stop yourselves from becoming as insufferably grandiose as the midwestern Big Ten trash.

The Big 12 obviously cannot be truly stable. It lost its 3rd, 4th, and 5th largest football fan bases. It lost its 2nd largest state. A&M in the SEC means that the Big 12 never again can control its largest state.

The SEC is going to be ready to scoop up OU the second OU is ready to leave. # 16 could be almost anybody and work the SEC. If it were my decision, I'd take Texas Tech, Baylor, or TCU with OU to double the SEC exposure in TX.

I don't believe that ESPN or the SEC have any true interest in raiding the ACC. The N.C. State & Virginia Tech rumors were centered around a move that ESPN wanted to make in 2010 with the ACC. Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and an unnamed school at that time were to move to the ACC (unnamed school was Notre Dame). The ACC would move to 16 (they already knew of Maryland's plans) and the SEC would give up long term objectives to the West (Texas and Oklahoma) and would gain markets that would increase ESPN & the SEC's value in our already planned network. When we invited Florida State they were independents.

Oklahoma would be our prime objective if we were to move to 16. With Oklahoma you can cross T.C.U. off the list as the Sooners deliver DFW as well as the Frogs do. Texas Tech is too far away. Maybe Baylor if not Texas, or Kansas (doesn't really fit), or West Virginia (but I doubt it).

But don't bother to use the term grandiose here. Nobody has the reputation for self delusion like the old core schools of the ACC. You're currently fifth in footprint saturation, meaning you hardly dominate any of your states other than Virginia and North Carolina. You are second in Florida, Kentucky, Georgia, and South Carolina. You are not the sports leader in Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, or New York professional sports and other college programs squeeze you out depending upon the state. And if U.N.C. screws up landing Texas you'll languish in 4th or 5th place for the rest of your existence.

JR, you are dead wrong about South Carolina and we will be #1 in Kentucky within 5 years if not sooner.

I'll have to dig around tomorrow for the numbers but South Carolina is more popular than Clemson, has a larger alumni base, and has higher viewer numbers on average.

(09-06-2015 11:37 AM)JRsec Wrote:  While I agree with Jayhawk that Texas will prefer to wait out the ACC GOR and cherry pick a new conference, I think in the end, especially now that UT is diminishing in on field performance, that it will be Texas that moves. I don't think the economy will permit for the time it takes for the GOR to play out. Therefore regional needs with regards to non revenue sports will help to dictate movement.

Texas fans are really upset with the turd they left on the field in Chicago against ND and the lack of expected improvement. If UT continues to struggle this season they will turn on Strong. If Strong fails, then I think they might look at a change of conferences to possibly get their program back on track and motivate the fans again. If Texas moves and brings friends to it's new destination it goes a long ways to getting the 8 votes needed to put the B12 out of it's misery. If the FB program gets firing on all cylinders again under Strong then I think they wait out the GoR.

(09-07-2015 01:40 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 11:37 AM)JRsec Wrote:  While I agree with Jayhawk that Texas will prefer to wait out the ACC GOR and cherry pick a new conference, I think in the end, especially now that UT is diminishing in on field performance, that it will be Texas that moves. I don't think the economy will permit for the time it takes for the GOR to play out. Therefore regional needs with regards to non revenue sports will help to dictate movement.

Texas fans are really upset with the turd they left on the field in Chicago against ND and the lack of expected improvement. If UT continues to struggle this season they will turn on Strong. If Strong fails, then I think they might look at a change of conferences to possibly get their program back on track and motivate the fans again. If Texas moves and brings friends to it's new destination it goes a long ways to getting the 8 votes needed to put the B12 out of it's misery. If the FB program gets firing on all cylinders again under Strong then I think they wait out the GoR.

It's about 95 miles from Chicago, Illinois to South Bend, Indiana, but you are right, the Longhorns were totally outplayed.

(09-07-2015 07:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 01:40 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 11:37 AM)JRsec Wrote:  While I agree with Jayhawk that Texas will prefer to wait out the ACC GOR and cherry pick a new conference, I think in the end, especially now that UT is diminishing in on field performance, that it will be Texas that moves. I don't think the economy will permit for the time it takes for the GOR to play out. Therefore regional needs with regards to non revenue sports will help to dictate movement.

Texas fans are really upset with the turd they left on the field in Chicago against ND and the lack of expected improvement. If UT continues to struggle this season they will turn on Strong. If Strong fails, then I think they might look at a change of conferences to possibly get their program back on track and motivate the fans again. If Texas moves and brings friends to it's new destination it goes a long ways to getting the 8 votes needed to put the B12 out of it's misery. If the FB program gets firing on all cylinders again under Strong then I think they wait out the GoR.

It's about 95 miles from Chicago, Illinois to South Bend, Indiana, but you are right, the Longhorns were totally outplayed.

That's an understatement. I doubt there were very many schools in the top 40 that the Horns could have beaten. It was their third 30 point loss in the span of a few games. The program's decline is the worst slump they've had from the standpoint of on field competitiveness. They've had losing years before but the games and the talent level were much more competitive than this. Before you could say it was merely coaching ability. Now it's more structural. If A&M has truly found a defense then the gap between the two will become so apparent that not even Austin will be able to deny the reality of it.

(09-06-2015 08:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 08:49 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  No offense but why in the world would Arkansas and Missouri both want to return to that dumpster fire when the reason they both left to begin with is still alive and well in Austin.

On the other hand, it's clear there is a huge divide in the ACC between the schools that are all in for football and the ones that consider FB nothing but a quaint distraction until basketball and lacrosse seasons arrive.

Since FB drives the bus, why continue to hitch your wagon to a bunch of teams with little more than token commitment to the sport?

Yep 10th I'd still be happy with Florida State and Clemson, but if it must be markets then Florida State and Virginia Tech, or Oklahoma and Virginia Tech.

Markets is exactly why the SEC needs another Texas team. You may have the #2 draw in Texas, but it won't get you more than 25% viewership in the State. To capture at least half of those 26 million (more folks than in North Carolina and Virginia combined) the SEC needs to add another Tejas school.
The SEC also needs western content (not western division but really western). A&M won't last near the top just as Arkansas can't stay up there consistently, and would anybody bet on the Mississippi schools or Missouri long term?
The SEC needs a real football power like Oklahoma to battle LSU for western supremacy. And the artificial move of the Alabama schools need to return to the east where they belong.
Florida State, Virginia Tech??.....get a grip and look at something that will insure long term success (and where the SEC is the weakest).

(09-07-2015 02:19 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 08:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 08:49 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  No offense but why in the world would Arkansas and Missouri both want to return to that dumpster fire when the reason they both left to begin with is still alive and well in Austin.

On the other hand, it's clear there is a huge divide in the ACC between the schools that are all in for football and the ones that consider FB nothing but a quaint distraction until basketball and lacrosse seasons arrive.

Since FB drives the bus, why continue to hitch your wagon to a bunch of teams with little more than token commitment to the sport?

Yep 10th I'd still be happy with Florida State and Clemson, but if it must be markets then Florida State and Virginia Tech, or Oklahoma and Virginia Tech.

Markets is exactly why the SEC needs another Texas team. You may have the #2 draw in Texas, but it won't get you more than 25% viewership in the State. To capture at least half of those 26 million (more folks than in North Carolina and Virginia combined) the SEC needs to add another Tejas school.
The SEC also needs western content (not western division but really western). A&M won't last near the top just as Arkansas can't stay up there consistently, and would anybody bet on the Mississippi schools or Missouri long term?
The SEC needs a real football power like Oklahoma to battle LSU for western supremacy. And the artificial move of the Alabama schools need to return to the east where they belong.
Florida State, Virginia Tech??.....get a grip and look at something that will insure long term success (and where the SEC is the weakest).

The only pay raises in the future will be for content Xlance. Content will be the "new markets" come renegotiation time.

(09-07-2015 05:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 02:19 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 08:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 08:49 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  No offense but why in the world would Arkansas and Missouri both want to return to that dumpster fire when the reason they both left to begin with is still alive and well in Austin.

On the other hand, it's clear there is a huge divide in the ACC between the schools that are all in for football and the ones that consider FB nothing but a quaint distraction until basketball and lacrosse seasons arrive.

Since FB drives the bus, why continue to hitch your wagon to a bunch of teams with little more than token commitment to the sport?

Yep 10th I'd still be happy with Florida State and Clemson, but if it must be markets then Florida State and Virginia Tech, or Oklahoma and Virginia Tech.

Markets is exactly why the SEC needs another Texas team. You may have the #2 draw in Texas, but it won't get you more than 25% viewership in the State. To capture at least half of those 26 million (more folks than in North Carolina and Virginia combined) the SEC needs to add another Tejas school.
The SEC also needs western content (not western division but really western). A&M won't last near the top just as Arkansas can't stay up there consistently, and would anybody bet on the Mississippi schools or Missouri long term?
The SEC needs a real football power like Oklahoma to battle LSU for western supremacy. And the artificial move of the Alabama schools need to return to the east where they belong.
Florida State, Virginia Tech??.....get a grip and look at something that will insure long term success (and where the SEC is the weakest).

The only pay raises in the future will be for content Xlance. Content will be the "new markets" come renegotiation time.

This isn't the pros....it's not all about money.

(09-07-2015 05:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 05:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 02:19 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 08:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 08:49 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  No offense but why in the world would Arkansas and Missouri both want to return to that dumpster fire when the reason they both left to begin with is still alive and well in Austin.

On the other hand, it's clear there is a huge divide in the ACC between the schools that are all in for football and the ones that consider FB nothing but a quaint distraction until basketball and lacrosse seasons arrive.

Since FB drives the bus, why continue to hitch your wagon to a bunch of teams with little more than token commitment to the sport?

Yep 10th I'd still be happy with Florida State and Clemson, but if it must be markets then Florida State and Virginia Tech, or Oklahoma and Virginia Tech.

Markets is exactly why the SEC needs another Texas team. You may have the #2 draw in Texas, but it won't get you more than 25% viewership in the State. To capture at least half of those 26 million (more folks than in North Carolina and Virginia combined) the SEC needs to add another Tejas school.
The SEC also needs western content (not western division but really western). A&M won't last near the top just as Arkansas can't stay up there consistently, and would anybody bet on the Mississippi schools or Missouri long term?
The SEC needs a real football power like Oklahoma to battle LSU for western supremacy. And the artificial move of the Alabama schools need to return to the east where they belong.
Florida State, Virginia Tech??.....get a grip and look at something that will insure long term success (and where the SEC is the weakest).

The only pay raises in the future will be for content Xlance. Content will be the "new markets" come renegotiation time.

This isn't the pros....it's not all about money.

I wish you were right.

SEC is already getting the full SECN instate rate for TX and gets the best ratings in the state so your argument doesn't hold any water. I think you're just desperately hoping the SEC lookswest instead of east and you should be. Adding another TX or an OK team does jack squat for the SEC bottom line. Bringing in a NC/VA pair adds another new Florida in population to the footprint.

(09-07-2015 07:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 01:40 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 11:37 AM)JRsec Wrote:  While I agree with Jayhawk that Texas will prefer to wait out the ACC GOR and cherry pick a new conference, I think in the end, especially now that UT is diminishing in on field performance, that it will be Texas that moves. I don't think the economy will permit for the time it takes for the GOR to play out. Therefore regional needs with regards to non revenue sports will help to dictate movement.

Texas fans are really upset with the turd they left on the field in Chicago against ND and the lack of expected improvement. If UT continues to struggle this season they will turn on Strong. If Strong fails, then I think they might look at a change of conferences to possibly get their program back on track and motivate the fans again. If Texas moves and brings friends to it's new destination it goes a long ways to getting the 8 votes needed to put the B12 out of it's misery. If the FB program gets firing on all cylinders again under Strong then I think they wait out the GoR.

It's about 95 miles from Chicago, Illinois to South Bend, Indiana, but you are right, the Longhorns were totally outplayed.

For some reason I thought it was a neutral field game in Chicago. Probably all the fans of UT posting about doing stuff in Chicago. I'm overseas so I usually only was a game or two a week since most of the games are in the middle of the night/early morning where I am and I can only watch via internet streaming since American FB is not a thing here. I'm kind of stuck pre-WWII in that most of my following is done by reading rather than watching.

(09-07-2015 07:20 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  SEC is already getting the full SECN instate rate for TX and gets the best ratings in the state so your argument doesn't hold any water. I think you're just desperately hoping the SEC lookswest instead of east and you should be. Adding another TX or an OK team does jack squat for the SEC bottom line. Bringing in a NC/VA pair adds another new Florida in population to the footprint.

10th
Moving to the SEC was the best thing that could happen to A&M. It's a better situation than staying in the Big 12, and much better than if you had gone to the PAC (and I'm happy for you).
Moving to the SEC is the worst thing that COULD happen to Carolina. So don't get me wrong, but it's just not the best thing for my school, but it could happen.
If one assumes that Carolina does not opt out of the P5 our best case situation would be to remain in a stable ACC, our next best situation (if the ACC failed completely) would be to join the B1G with UVa, Dook and Georgia Tech. If for some reason that didn't work we would as a last resort Carolina could bump NC State out from the spot that Clay Travis seems to have reserved for them and join the SEC. There is no doubt that the SEC would take Carolina as opposed to State. Carolina would not be left out or placed in an undesirable situation in any circumstance.
My suggestion is based on my belief that Carolina and Virginia would add little to SEC football except eyeballs to your network plus what would we do about lacrosse? Virginia Tech would fair better but would never be able to compete as the highest level without massive capital improvements and upgrades. Whereas, I do believe that the SEC needs more presence in the State of Texas as to not be swept aside when A&M slumps and there is need for at least one other football power in the west to compete long term with LSU.
I can understand that you won't get "jack squat" in your bank account, but you will get a better balanced conference and meaningful competition with peer institutions and still make more money than anyone else.

(09-08-2015 12:18 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 07:20 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  SEC is already getting the full SECN instate rate for TX and gets the best ratings in the state so your argument doesn't hold any water. I think you're just desperately hoping the SEC lookswest instead of east and you should be. Adding another TX or an OK team does jack squat for the SEC bottom line. Bringing in a NC/VA pair adds another new Florida in population to the footprint.

10th
Moving to the SEC was the best thing that could happen to A&M. It's a better situation than staying in the Big 12, and much better than if you had gone to the PAC (and I'm happy for you).
Moving to the SEC is the worst thing that COULD happen to Carolina. So don't get me wrong, but it's just not the best thing for my school, but it could happen.
If one assumes that Carolina does not opt out of the P5 our best case situation would be to remain in a stable ACC, our next best situation (if the ACC failed completely) would be to join the B1G with UVa, Dook and Georgia Tech. If for some reason that didn't work we would as a last resort Carolina could bump NC State out from the spot that Clay Travis seems to have reserved for them and join the SEC. There is no doubt that the SEC would take Carolina as opposed to State. Carolina would not be left out or placed in an undesirable situation in any circumstance.
My suggestion is based on my belief that Carolina and Virginia would add little to SEC football except eyeballs to your network plus what would we do about lacrosse? Virginia Tech would fair better but would never be able to compete as the highest level without massive capital improvements and upgrades. Whereas, I do believe that the SEC needs more presence in the State of Texas as to not be swept aside when A&M slumps and there is need for at least one other football power in the west to compete long term with LSU.
I can understand that you won't get "jack squat" in your bank account, but you will get a better balanced conference and meaningful competition with peer institutions and still make more money than anyone else.

Well if Va Tech did come to the SEC they would get a 14 mllion a year bump anyway. That should help them compete. But quite frankly until Beamer retires it will all downhill for the Hokies whether they are in the ACC, SEC, or Big 10.

I think Oklahoma and Virginia Tech would be quite acceptable to the SEC. That's a brand, a regional brand, and a market, and a bigger slice of DFW.

(09-07-2015 07:20 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  SEC is already getting the full SECN instate rate for TX and gets the best ratings in the state so your argument doesn't hold any water. I think you're just desperately hoping the SEC lookswest instead of east and you should be. Adding another TX or an OK team does jack squat for the SEC bottom line. Bringing in a NC/VA pair adds another new Florida in population to the footprint.

I think Westward is the most likely scenario. ESPN has a football cash cow in the SEC and a basketball cash cow in the ACC. They will not risk losing an entire cow to fatten the other up.

While ESPN doesn't hold all the cards, they are a major player, especially in regards to those specific conferences. The Big12/Westward combines a joint interest for the SEC, ACC, and ESPN. Texas is an ESPN school, but the rest of the Big 12 is sorta Fox. Investing so much in Texas, it is unlikely that ESPN will want to let them leave for a FOX conference.