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A different look at George W. Bush
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #1
A different look at George W. Bush
I don't agree with many of the author's conclusions from the article, but his general commentary on Bush and his AIDS program in Africa is very interesting nonetheless.

Quote:But Bush also created PEPFAR: the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. PEPFAR is one of the best government programs in American history, probably the best since the Great Society. Public health research has found it saved the lives of at least a million people, and has done so with shocking cost-effectiveness...

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/8/8894019/geor...ush-pepfar

Bush did many, many, many awful things while in office, putting him among the worst presidents in US history imo. However, the point of the thread is not to suggest that Bush was a good president, a decent one, or even a mediocre one. In my personal opinion, he was bad (as I said in the OP), among the worst of all time. But PEPFAR just goes to show how a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then, and that applies to almost every president (i.e. Obama and Cuba). On PEPFAR itself, I'm a firm opponent of foreign aid on principle, but when a president's direct actions result in the literal saving of millions of lives, there's a point where you concede that it's more than worth than its relatively small cost for the sake of humanitarianism. Even opponents of him, like me and many of you, can hopefully at least appreciate that. Does it outweigh everything else like the author suggests? He!! no, but it's nice to see some long-term good (among other minor feats) come out of his time in office.

On the topic of Bush as a whole, he never struck me as an "evil" guy. I just see him as a relatively simple man who unfortunately won the most important job in the world because he came off as earnest enough (he's always legitimately struck me as a nice guy) during a tranquil era to hold off a candidate in Gore who came across as a total snob. That was kinda like giving a chimp a machine gun, and 9/11 was a rock thrown at his head that set him off. From there I think his actions, from the wars to the Patriot Act to the idiotic counter-measures for the recession, were ruled by fear, and he let his guard down. He trusted the wrong people (i.e. Cheney, who I legitimately think is a very, very bad person) because he thought they knew what they were doing, and they went and steered his power towards 'achieving' some of what they wanted done. Honestly, I think if you insert Bush into office during the relatively uneventful Clinton years he would've been somewhat harmless; not good but not the absolute train wreck he turned out to be.
07-09-2015 11:01 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #2
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
How about charging wounded vets a speaking fee?
07-09-2015 11:04 PM
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Niner National Offline
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Post: #3
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-09-2015 11:04 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  How about charging wounded vets a speaking fee?

All politicians do this. While I think it is in poor taste, he is certainly not alone.

For all we know, he may have donated the speaking fee right back to them or to some other charity.
07-09-2015 11:22 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #4
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
I think that much like Truman Bush is going to be judged by history as a better President than he currently is.
07-09-2015 11:36 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
On the topic of Bush as a whole, he never struck me as an "evil" guy.

I dunno...starting a war (knowing that you can't pay for it) in the name of a cause that was later proven to be misrepresented comes pretty close to the definition of evil.
07-10-2015 12:20 AM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #6
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 12:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  On the topic of Bush as a whole, he never struck me as an "evil" guy.

I dunno...starting a war (knowing that you can't pay for it) in the name of a cause that was later proven to be misrepresented comes pretty close to the definition of evil.

Yea, that same cause Killary, Biden, the hapless buffoon Kerry and many, many others also supported.

Evil, all of them, right? To be consistent and not a total partisan hack?
07-10-2015 01:35 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 12:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I dunno...starting a war (knowing that you can't pay for it) in the name of a cause that was later proven to be misrepresented comes pretty close to the definition of evil.

True, but then again, that's a pretty extreme distortion of what actually happened.
07-10-2015 01:50 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #8
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 01:50 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 12:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  I dunno...starting a war (knowing that you can't pay for it) in the name of a cause that was later proven to be misrepresented comes pretty close to the definition of evil.

True, but then again, that's a pretty extreme distortion of what actually happened.
You are right. I am not sure he knew that we couldn't pay for it.
07-10-2015 02:00 AM
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UConn-SMU Offline
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Post: #9
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 12:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  On the topic of Bush as a whole, he never struck me as an "evil" guy.

I dunno...starting a war (knowing that you can't pay for it) in the name of a cause that was later proven to be misrepresented comes pretty close to the definition of evil.

The war was based on faulty intelligence information. Every country agreed with the intelligence.

It wasn't as if Bush made up facts just to go to war. To perpetuate the idiotic "Bush Lied, People Died" story is evil.
07-10-2015 05:15 AM
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NCeagle Offline
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Post: #10
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-09-2015 11:04 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  How about charging wounded vets a speaking fee?

how about hilary charging the boys and girls club $200k?
07-10-2015 07:50 AM
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shiftyeagle Offline
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Post: #11
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-09-2015 11:04 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  How about charging wounded vets a speaking fee?

I guess you're going to completely dismiss how much money was MADE for the charity at that event. Much more than the speaking fee.
07-10-2015 08:04 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #12
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 08:04 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  
(07-09-2015 11:04 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  How about charging wounded vets a speaking fee?

I guess you're going to completely dismiss how much money was MADE for the charity at that event. Much more than the speaking fee.

Don't talk economics, it just confuses some people.
07-10-2015 08:25 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #13
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 05:15 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 12:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  On the topic of Bush as a whole, he never struck me as an "evil" guy.

I dunno...starting a war (knowing that you can't pay for it) in the name of a cause that was later proven to be misrepresented comes pretty close to the definition of evil.

The war was based on faulty intelligence information. Every country agreed with the intelligence.

It wasn't as if Bush made up facts just to go to war. To perpetuate the idiotic "Bush Lied, People Died" story is evil.

Can you explain away the evidence that they were talking about war with Iraq before 9/11 even took place...or the evidence that in the near immediate aftermath of 9/11 they were trying to link it to Saddam?
07-10-2015 09:17 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #14
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
lol, even almost 8 years later with an election coming up Bush is brought up. Like clockwork.
07-10-2015 09:18 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 07:50 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  
(07-09-2015 11:04 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  How about charging wounded vets a speaking fee?

how about hilary charging the boys and girls club $200k?

Or how about my complete debunking of that?
http://csnbbs.com/thread-740504-post-121...id12138192

The club sold around $375,000 in tickets and gave the Clinton Foundation around $200,000 of that for their charitable causes. No money went to Hillary directly.
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2015 09:23 AM by Redwingtom.)
07-10-2015 09:20 AM
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Post: #16
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 05:15 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 12:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  On the topic of Bush as a whole, he never struck me as an "evil" guy.

I dunno...starting a war (knowing that you can't pay for it) in the name of a cause that was later proven to be misrepresented comes pretty close to the definition of evil.

The war was based on faulty intelligence information. Every country agreed with the intelligence.

It wasn't as if Bush made up facts just to go to war. To perpetuate the idiotic "Bush Lied, People Died" story is evil.

Actually that's the big lie-that Bush lied.
07-10-2015 09:20 AM
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DragonLair Offline
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Post: #17
A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 12:20 AM)john01992 Wrote:  On the topic of Bush as a whole, he never struck me as an "evil" guy.

I dunno...starting a war (knowing that you can't pay for it) in the name of a cause that was later proven to be misrepresented comes pretty close to the definition of evil.

Holy schnikes. Your definition of evil include doing things that you know you can't pay for!?

FDR -- evil --- New deal, social security
Lbj---- evil. --- welfare programs
Obama --- evil --- obummercare


All things we can't/couldn't pay for
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2015 09:25 AM by DragonLair.)
07-10-2015 09:25 AM
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No Bull Offline
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RE: A different look at George W. Bush
Evil is leaving your ambassador to Libya abandoned to to the enemy... and then covering it up....
07-10-2015 09:27 AM
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Post: #19
RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 09:20 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 07:50 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  
(07-09-2015 11:04 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  How about charging wounded vets a speaking fee?

how about hilary charging the boys and girls club $200k?

Or how about my complete debunking of that?
http://csnbbs.com/thread-740504-post-121...id12138192

The club sold around $375,000 in tickets and gave the Clinton Foundation around $200,000 of that for their charitable causes. No money went to Hillary directly.

You didnt debunk it. You proved that she charged them $200K.
07-10-2015 09:30 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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RE: A different look at George W. Bush
(07-10-2015 09:30 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 09:20 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 07:50 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  
(07-09-2015 11:04 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  How about charging wounded vets a speaking fee?

how about hilary charging the boys and girls club $200k?

Or how about my complete debunking of that?
http://csnbbs.com/thread-740504-post-121...id12138192

The club sold around $375,000 in tickets and gave the Clinton Foundation around $200,000 of that for their charitable causes. No money went to Hillary directly.

You didnt debunk it. You proved that she charged them $200K.

Not my fault. I can only lead the horses asses to the water.
07-10-2015 09:31 AM
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