These kind of people and BHO want guns , all guns outlawed.

(06-19-2015 03:39 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  LAw abiding citizens sell guns to only the legal way. For example on Armslist.... Most all will not sell a weapon without the the buyer providing their CWP. That covers your question. Because in order to have a CWP you have already passed a background check.

Most? So like, 10% will sell to just anybody? 5%? Even 1% works out to a lot of guns.

I'm not really suggesting much, just trying to figure out where all the criminals get their guns from. And no, I'm not in favor of banning guns.

(06-19-2015 03:38 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 03:35 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 03:32 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  The Second Amendment gives a person enough documentation to be a gun owner. Unless you are a convicted felon, crazy, or have a dishonorable discharge from the military.

If you sell a gun to someone else in a private transaction, how do you know they aren't a convicted felon, or have had a dishonorable discharge, or are crazy?

I'm also not sure I would even include dishonorable discharge from the military, depending on the reason.

OK, if I understand your beating around the bush correctly you'd like to outlaw all private transactions. Is that correct?

Unless you could have some way to verify that the purchaser is a legal gun owner.

I'd like to discuss this more but will be away from the board for a week or so at least.

(06-19-2015 12:53 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 12:37 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  but when we see an event like what happened in Charleston and believe that we can't stop stuff like that from happening.

What do you suggest "we" do?

"We" as in someone like myself, a Second Amendment supporter who may or may not own or carry a firearm, responsibly?

Or "we" as in Congress outside of the 300 Federal firearms laws?

Or "we" as within our communities with maybe as many as 20,000 state and municipal firearm laws?

You will only stop firearm fatalities in the United States when you eliminate firearms from these United States. There is no gray area, as you like to reference.

Which ever "we" that gets results. I say all of them.

(06-19-2015 03:54 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 03:39 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  LAw abiding citizens sell guns to only the legal way. For example on Armslist.... Most all will not sell a weapon without the the buyer providing their CWP. That covers your question. Because in order to have a CWP you have already passed a background check.

Most? So like, 10% will sell to just anybody? 5%? Even 1% works out to a lot of guns.

I'm not really suggesting much, just trying to figure out where all the criminals get their guns from. And no, I'm not in favor of banning guns.

It's my understanding that former AG Eric Holder ran some good deals on guns. Perhaps you should ask him or BHO about how they handled your straw man argument.

(06-19-2015 10:16 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 10:13 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 09:17 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 11:27 PM)PlainTiger Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 07:17 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Make sure everyone has a gun and knows how to use it

The answer right here.

EVERYONE????

EVERYONE would be a bit extreme if you are including criminals and such, but the end result would still be an improvement.

Based on what evidence? I'm sure there are LOTS of people that don't own a gun, that also are not responsible people, but are not major criminals (yet). You'd be giving them guns and expecting them to suddenly act responsibly?

People will act much more responsibly if there is a good chance the majority of adults were armed

The 2nd Amendment is an essential part of our country's framework. I think regulation is key to helping bring down these numbers.

It is a VERY sad day when we say, "The chart is misleading because other countries with lots of stabbings or machete cuttings aren't included." What about all of OUR stabbings, muggings, etc?? We have a very violent subculture that is based around guns and knives. Part of it is human nature, I would argue, but there's something up when western Europe doesn't have the violence we have on the scale we have.

(06-19-2015 04:03 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 03:54 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 03:39 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  LAw abiding citizens sell guns to only the legal way. For example on Armslist.... Most all will not sell a weapon without the the buyer providing their CWP. That covers your question. Because in order to have a CWP you have already passed a background check.

Most? So like, 10% will sell to just anybody? 5%? Even 1% works out to a lot of guns.

I'm not really suggesting much, just trying to figure out where all the criminals get their guns from. And no, I'm not in favor of banning guns.

It's my understanding that former AG Eric Holder ran some good deals on guns. Perhaps you should ask him or BHO about how they handled your straw man argument.

What straw man argument? Background checks in one spot are going to do precisely nothing if the next state over doesn't have them, or if it allows people to simply purchase a gun from whomever without needing to show anything. Is it at all surprising that criminals get guns when there are such obvious gaps in the system that's supposed to keep guns from them?

How would a background check have stopped Roof? He would have passed even the strictest background check on the books in this country.

A background check wouldn't have stopped Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, or Dylan Klebold because they stole the guns they used guns either obtained by theft (Lanza) or straw purchases (Harris & Klebold) which are already illegal. Seung-Hui Cho passed the background check for his firearms. John Allen Muhammad illegally obtained the rifle used in the Beltway shootings.

(06-19-2015 03:56 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 12:53 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 12:37 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  but when we see an event like what happened in Charleston and believe that we can't stop stuff like that from happening.

What do you suggest "we" do?

"We" as in someone like myself, a Second Amendment supporter who may or may not own or carry a firearm, responsibly?

Or "we" as in Congress outside of the 300 Federal firearms laws?

Or "we" as within our communities with maybe as many as 20,000 state and municipal firearm laws?

You will only stop firearm fatalities in the United States when you eliminate firearms from these United States. There is no gray area, as you like to reference.

Which ever "we" that gets results. I say all of them.

So an armed populace will get results?
So the 301st law will make the difference?
So the 20,001st municipal code saves all the lives?

And your explicit support of the elimination (only possible through threat of force from the government of the United States, BTW) is both telling and very, very disappointing, Fit.

Guns aren't the problem. Violent video games are the problem.

Imagine someone playing games for hours on end, wherein they "kill" 120 people every minute. Can you say desensitization?

(06-19-2015 05:14 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Guns aren't the problem. Violent video games are the problem.

Imagine someone playing games for hours on end, wherein they "kill" 120 people every minute. Can you say desensitization?

Brilliant. Real guns aren't the problem. ...fake guns are. .. LMFAO

(06-19-2015 04:42 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  How would a background check have stopped Roof? He would have passed even the strictest background check on the books in this country.

A background check wouldn't have stopped Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, or Dylan Klebold because they stole the guns they used guns either obtained by theft (Lanza) or straw purchases (Harris & Klebold) which are already illegal. Seung-Hui Cho passed the background check for his firearms. John Allen Muhammad illegally obtained the rifle used in the Beltway shootings.

That's the point that so many just ignore about 'crazies'. If these people were actually certifiable, they would have been so certified.

(06-19-2015 04:12 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 04:03 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 03:54 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 03:39 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  LAw abiding citizens sell guns to only the legal way. For example on Armslist.... Most all will not sell a weapon without the the buyer providing their CWP. That covers your question. Because in order to have a CWP you have already passed a background check.

Most? So like, 10% will sell to just anybody? 5%? Even 1% works out to a lot of guns.

I'm not really suggesting much, just trying to figure out where all the criminals get their guns from. And no, I'm not in favor of banning guns.

It's my understanding that former AG Eric Holder ran some good deals on guns. Perhaps you should ask him or BHO about how they handled your straw man argument.

What straw man argument? Background checks in one spot are going to do precisely nothing if the next state over doesn't have them, or if it allows people to simply purchase a gun from whomever without needing to show anything. Is it at all surprising that criminals get guns when there are such obvious gaps in the system that's supposed to keep guns from them?

Straw man or Stupidity or Ignorance, your choice. Since 1993 NICS through the FBI and Brady Bill are the law of the land! Over 100 million checks and 700k denials in the past decade.

Well, if it's illegal to sell a gun to a man under investigation for a felony then a background check would have prevented him from purchasing any firearm. This example is easy

(06-21-2015 09:00 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  Well, if it's illegal to sell a gun to a man under investigation for a felony then a background check would have prevented him from purchasing any firearm.

Nope.

I'm still trying to figure out how 3/100k isn't an acceptable number.

what is an acceptable number? 2.3, 1.8, 0.7?

time to go to the back 40 and pop a few rounds....

(06-18-2015 05:24 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Arrest the murderers before they kill.

That'd be a neat trick.

(06-19-2015 03:12 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Make people responsible for crimes committed with guns that they provided to the criminal.

I sell you a set of steak knives. You carve up a kindergartener. That's on me?

(06-21-2015 10:18 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-19-2015 03:12 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Make people responsible for crimes committed with guns that they provided to the criminal.

I sell you a set of steak knives. You carve up a kindergartener. That's on me?

I thought about a 'knife' response.....even thought about any item made of metal with a point....

some people....you just can't fix 'em