I would prefer they drop the divisions in baseball as well.

(05-12-2015 11:29 AM)XLance Wrote:  Because Florida State wants Georgia Tech but the love is unrequited.

The problem is the only 2 teams in the Atlantic we want to play are Clemson and FSU .... and we already get FSU. Everybody else we want to play is already in the Coastal. And we don't want to throw away 4 teams we want to play to pick up FSU. For FSU it is the other way around ... most of the teams they want to play are in the Coastal.

Go divisionless with permanent rivals. Or make divisions geographic with Miami in the North. You won't have peace until you do.

(05-12-2015 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  That's DOA. VT will not stand for that and have said as much.

As long as you make sure their crossover is in NC I think this isn't a deal breaker. They'd still get UofL, UVA, Miami and all the BE teams they have recent history with.

(05-12-2015 05:10 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  To answer TerryD's earlier question.

1. Notre Dame is in the Coastal Division for men's soccer because two Coastal schools (GT and Miami) do not field men's soccer teams. Since FSU is the only Atlantic Division team not to field a team then Notre Dame has to play in the Coastal to balance the numbers.

2. Notre Dame is in the Atlantic for baseball because Syracuse doesn't field a team so Notre Dame plays there to balance the numbers in each division.

3. Other than Notre Dame, no other team competes in a different division than the one it belongs to in football.

Hell, I root for a school that plays those sports in the ACC, check the standing every so often, and I don't know which ACC team is in which division for which sport.

There is no way in hell any non-ACC or casual fans can sort it out and remember. It just seems a random jumble of schools.

(05-12-2015 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 02:34 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  In a North/South alignment, VT, UVa, UNC, NC State, Duke, and WF could be in either division. In fact, it would make sense for State of Va and NC to overlap.

Well, I was talking about a true north/south geographic division, no overlaps.

That's DOA. VT will not stand for that and have said as much.

So the answer is yes, the ACC would tell ND football to pound sand if a true North/South divisional setup was its only condition.

(05-12-2015 09:19 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 02:34 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  In a North/South alignment, VT, UVa, UNC, NC State, Duke, and WF could be in either division. In fact, it would make sense for State of Va and NC to overlap.

Well, I was talking about a true north/south geographic division, no overlaps.

That's DOA. VT will not stand for that and have said as much.

So the answer is yes, the ACC would tell ND football to pound sand if a true North/South divisional setup was its only condition.

No, you are twisting my response. You first proposed a North/South alignment. Then you raised the stakes with a North/South alignment that had to be non-overlapping.

VT is not going to accept a situation where they not only do not play Miami or FSU every year, but may have just one game with a NC team.

(05-12-2015 09:25 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:19 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 02:34 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  In a North/South alignment, VT, UVa, UNC, NC State, Duke, and WF could be in either division. In fact, it would make sense for State of Va and NC to overlap.

Well, I was talking about a true north/south geographic division, no overlaps.

That's DOA. VT will not stand for that and have said as much.

So the answer is yes, the ACC would tell ND football to pound sand if a true North/South divisional setup was its only condition.

No, you are twisting my response. You first proposed a North/South alignment. Then you raised the stakes with a North/South alignment that had to be non-overlapping.

VT is not going to accept a situation where they not only do not play Miami or FSU every year, but may have just one game with a NC team.

No, I didn't.

Go look at my original proposed divisions.

I don't think I overlapped anyone.

(05-12-2015 09:27 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:25 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:19 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Well, I was talking about a true north/south geographic division, no overlaps.

That's DOA. VT will not stand for that and have said as much.

So the answer is yes, the ACC would tell ND football to pound sand if a true North/South divisional setup was its only condition.

No, you are twisting my response. You first proposed a North/South alignment. Then you raised the stakes with a North/South alignment that had to be non-overlapping.

VT is not going to accept a situation where they not only do not play Miami or FSU every year, but may have just one game with a NC team.

No, I didn't.

Go look at my original proposed divisions.

I don't think I overlapped anyone.

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"Post: #59
RE: ACC Meetings underway

Hypothetical question:

If ND approached the ACC about joining in football but had a North/South divisional setup as its only stipulation or condition, would the ACC agree or tell ND to pound sand? "

Now there are 14 schools playing football. If seven are split off to play in a northern division with Notre Dame, and you are hooked on no overlap in Va or NC, you can't make that work:

BC, Syracuse, Pitt, UVa, VT, Louisville, ND - your 8th team in your division would be Wake Forest since it's the most northerly of the ACC schools, unless of course plan to add Navy as your 8th team and have the 4 NC schools and GT/FSU/Clemson/and Miami in the South.

Unless of course your intent was to have a northern division with just 7 schools and a southern division with 8.

(05-12-2015 09:19 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 02:34 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  In a North/South alignment, VT, UVa, UNC, NC State, Duke, and WF could be in either division. In fact, it would make sense for State of Va and NC to overlap.

Well, I was talking about a true north/south geographic division, no overlaps.

That's DOA. VT will not stand for that and have said as much.

So the answer is yes, the ACC would tell ND football to pound sand if a true North/South divisional setup was its only condition.

Just because Lumberpack says something doesn't make it true. It would be very unlikely the ACC would say no if Notre Dame wanted to join.

(05-12-2015 09:18 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 05:10 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  To answer TerryD's earlier question.

1. Notre Dame is in the Coastal Division for men's soccer because two Coastal schools (GT and Miami) do not field men's soccer teams. Since FSU is the only Atlantic Division team not to field a team then Notre Dame has to play in the Coastal to balance the numbers.

2. Notre Dame is in the Atlantic for baseball because Syracuse doesn't field a team so Notre Dame plays there to balance the numbers in each division.

3. Other than Notre Dame, no other team competes in a different division than the one it belongs to in football.

Hell, I root for a school that plays those sports in the ACC, check the standing every so often, and I don't know which ACC team is in which division for which sport.

There is no way in hell any non-ACC or casual fans can sort it out and remember. It just seems a random jumble of schools.

What non-ACC fan or casual fan cares enough to watch college soccer or baseball period?

(05-12-2015 10:11 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:19 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 02:34 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  In a North/South alignment, VT, UVa, UNC, NC State, Duke, and WF could be in either division. In fact, it would make sense for State of Va and NC to overlap.

Well, I was talking about a true north/south geographic division, no overlaps.

That's DOA. VT will not stand for that and have said as much.

So the answer is yes, the ACC would tell ND football to pound sand if a true North/South divisional setup was its only condition.

Just because Lumberpack says something doesn't make it true. It would be very unlikely the ACC would say no if Notre Dame wanted to join.

You haven't been reading very closely. Terry D posed a question about a north/south alignment, then changed his question to a north/south alignment that somehow manages to split a 15 team conference into divisions of 7 and 8 with the 7 evidently including just ND, Louisville, Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Va, and VT. Or perhaps he meant 8 in ND's division, so you need at least one NC school. But if you think VT is okay with not having a regular game in NC each year and not appearing in Florida every other year, you are wrong.

Not that is matters because Notre Dame isn't joining for football anytime soon, but if we have learned one thing from conference realignment, it's that expansion usually happens first without much thought to divisions. That feels fairly stupid to me, but they've all announced new members and then later discussed how to do the divisions. I think they try to avoid that conversation piece as it has the potential to divide people up and make new members less likely to be voted in.

(05-12-2015 10:21 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 10:11 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:19 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 04:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Well, I was talking about a true north/south geographic division, no overlaps.

That's DOA. VT will not stand for that and have said as much.

So the answer is yes, the ACC would tell ND football to pound sand if a true North/South divisional setup was its only condition.

Just because Lumberpack says something doesn't make it true. It would be very unlikely the ACC would say no if Notre Dame wanted to join.

You haven't been reading very closely. Terry D posed a question about a north/south alignment, then changed his question to a north/south alignment that somehow manages to split a 15 team conference into divisions of 7 and 8 with the 7 evidently including just ND, Louisville, Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Va, and VT. Or perhaps he meant 8 in ND's division, so you need at least one NC school. But if you think VT is okay with not having a regular game in NC each year and not appearing in Florida every other year, you are wrong.

I'm saying none of the other schools would support VT's opposition to getting Notre Dame as a full member in that scenario even it meant losing the Hokies to another conference.

(05-12-2015 06:47 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 05:10 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  To answer TerryD's earlier question.

1. Notre Dame is in the Coastal Division for men's soccer because two Coastal schools (GT and Miami) do not field men's soccer teams. Since FSU is the only Atlantic Division team not to field a team then Notre Dame has to play in the Coastal to balance the numbers.

2. Notre Dame is in the Atlantic for baseball because Syracuse doesn't field a team so Notre Dame plays there to balance the numbers in each division.

3. Other than Notre Dame, no other team competes in a different division than the one it belongs to in football.

#1 makes no sense. Not what you said, but that the ACC chose to do that in the first place. Women's soccer has no divisions while also having more teams than men's soccer.

The coaches of the minor sports choose their formats. The "ACC" didn't decide it for them.

(05-12-2015 09:28 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:27 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:25 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:19 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  That's DOA. VT will not stand for that and have said as much.

So the answer is yes, the ACC would tell ND football to pound sand if a true North/South divisional setup was its only condition.

No, you are twisting my response. You first proposed a North/South alignment. Then you raised the stakes with a North/South alignment that had to be non-overlapping.

VT is not going to accept a situation where they not only do not play Miami or FSU every year, but may have just one game with a NC team.

No, I didn't.

Go look at my original proposed divisions.

I don't think I overlapped anyone.

TerryD Online
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"Post: #59
RE: ACC Meetings underway

Hypothetical question:

If ND approached the ACC about joining in football but had a North/South divisional setup as its only stipulation or condition, would the ACC agree or tell ND to pound sand? "

Now there are 14 schools playing football. If seven are split off to play in a northern division with Notre Dame, and you are hooked on no overlap in Va or NC, you can't make that work:

BC, Syracuse, Pitt, UVa, VT, Louisville, ND - your 8th team in your division would be Wake Forest since it's the most northerly of the ACC schools, unless of course plan to add Navy as your 8th team and have the 4 NC schools and GT/FSU/Clemson/and Miami in the South.

Unless of course your intent was to have a northern division with just 7 schools and a southern division with 8.

My bad. Add Cincy as the eighth ACC North team. That was my original intent.

(05-12-2015 11:29 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 06:47 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 05:10 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  To answer TerryD's earlier question.

1. Notre Dame is in the Coastal Division for men's soccer because two Coastal schools (GT and Miami) do not field men's soccer teams. Since FSU is the only Atlantic Division team not to field a team then Notre Dame has to play in the Coastal to balance the numbers.

2. Notre Dame is in the Atlantic for baseball because Syracuse doesn't field a team so Notre Dame plays there to balance the numbers in each division.

3. Other than Notre Dame, no other team competes in a different division than the one it belongs to in football.

#1 makes no sense. Not what you said, but that the ACC chose to do that in the first place. Women's soccer has no divisions while also having more teams than men's soccer.

The coaches of the minor sports choose their formats. The "ACC" didn't decide it for them.

Questions

1 Why with a huge base of Soccer loving Fans, Doesn't Miami have Soccer ? And I would think Atlanta would likewise have fans that would support Soccer as well.

2 If Syracuse gets a New Stadium, Could the Layout support Baseball with a retractable roof and practice facility for Spring Practice ?

(05-12-2015 04:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 03:37 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 01:56 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Hypothetical question:

If ND approached the ACC about joining in football but had a North/South divisional setup as its only stipulation or condition, would the ACC agree or tell ND to pound sand?

If we are being hypothetical, and also assume that Cincy is the 16th member, the following division might fly with most schools:

North
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Cincinnati, Louisville, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech and Wake Forest

South
Virginia, UNC, Duke, NC State, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State and Miami

I imagine the schools that wouldn't care for this would be Wake Forest, Syracuse, Va Tech and Louisville. The northern schools might object to being cut off from Florida recruiting grounds. Get over that hurdle and you have a chance.

Are you floating a trial balloon on the Irish's behalf?

Lol, hell no. Purely an intellectual exercise to see if you ACC'ers ( yes, I use "you" or "us" as it suits me) were against geographic divisions entirely.

As for ND, I much prefer the status quo.

My opinion counts for nothing, though.

You would have to ask Jack Swarbrick about that.

Whether we like it or not, you are one of us. When you come to realize that fact, you might decide that we aren't so bad after all.

Whats the update on our NC State guy who has all the goods on Notre Dame to ACC? Its spring meeting time, surely he's got some new nuggets of info for all of us to chew on....

And what about our guy at Minnesota, and our WVU friends who know everything....can anyone give us an update here of what these guys are hearing fro their sources. :)

(05-12-2015 09:28 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:27 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:25 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 09:19 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-12-2015 06:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  That's DOA. VT will not stand for that and have said as much.

So the answer is yes, the ACC would tell ND football to pound sand if a true North/South divisional setup was its only condition.

No, you are twisting my response. You first proposed a North/South alignment. Then you raised the stakes with a North/South alignment that had to be non-overlapping.

VT is not going to accept a situation where they not only do not play Miami or FSU every year, but may have just one game with a NC team.

No, I didn't.

Go look at my original proposed divisions.

I don't think I overlapped anyone.

TerryD Online
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"Post: #59
RE: ACC Meetings underway

Hypothetical question:

If ND approached the ACC about joining in football but had a North/South divisional setup as its only stipulation or condition, would the ACC agree or tell ND to pound sand? "

Now there are 14 schools playing football. If seven are split off to play in a northern division with Notre Dame, and you are hooked on no overlap in Va or NC, you can't make that work:

BC, Syracuse, Pitt, UVa, VT, Louisville, ND - your 8th team in your division would be Wake Forest since it's the most northerly of the ACC schools, unless of course plan to add Navy as your 8th team and have the 4 NC schools and GT/FSU/Clemson/and Miami in the South.

Unless of course your intent was to have a northern division with just 7 schools and a southern division with 8.

Why would Notre Dame request that? That's a terrible idea....

The Northeast schools need to be able to play FSU and Miami for recruiting purposes....a North division would be like the old Big XII

(05-12-2015 10:42 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Not that is matters because Notre Dame isn't joining for football anytime soon, but if we have learned one thing from conference realignment, it's that expansion usually happens first without much thought to divisions. That feels fairly stupid to me, but they've all announced new members and then later discussed how to do the divisions. I think they try to avoid that conversation piece as it has the potential to divide people up and make new members less likely to be voted in.

that's probably just the Big 10 lol

Legends and Leaders...lol