Why would you highly doubt that FSU/GT becomes a rivalry game with 3 permanent rivals?

UNC would get Duke, NC State and Virginia over GT.
Virginia would want North Carolina, Duke and Virginia Tech over GT.

That leaves GT with Duke, Clemson, and Florida State if you look at it logically.

This would be my setup under a 3-5-5 arragement.
This would be my 1st choice in a 1 division format where the top 2 play each other for the title.


FSU..................Miami......Clemson......Ga Tech
Miami................FSU........Va Tech......Pitt
Clemson............Ga Tech...FSU...........NC State
Ga Tech............Clemson...Duke..........FSU
Duke.................Wake......Ga Tech.....UNC
Wake................Duke.......NC State....Syracuse
UNC..................NC St.....UVA...........Duke
NC State...........UNC........Wake.........Clemson
UVA.................Va Tech....UNC..........Louisville
Va Tech............UVA.........Miami........BC
Louisville...........Pitt..........BC............UVA
Pitt..................Louisville...Syracuse...Miami
BC...................Syracuse...Louisvile....Va Tech
Syracuse..........BC............Pitt..........Wake

(05-08-2015 01:10 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Why would you highly doubt that FSU/GT becomes a rivalry game with 3 permanent rivals?

UNC would get Duke, NC State and Virginia over GT.
Virginia would want North Carolina, Duke and Virginia Tech over GT.

That leaves GT with Duke, Clemson, and Florida State if you look at it logically.

Look and see how you phrased the first two. Each began with [insert institution] followed by "would want, would get" which is code for would fight to get.

Count me amongst those who believe FSU on an annual basis is not something GT (the institution, not the fans) would fight to get, unlike NC State who I believe would fight hard to keep FSU as an annual rivalry game.

However, you do bring up a good point that I wasn't factoring in with my previous reply - which is centered around what other decisions are made ahead of getting around to what GT or NC State "wants"? There is always give and take when these things are done, so it may have a higher possibility rate then I originally thought possible. But it is still not a given.

Cheers,
Neil

Do some research on how the conference is run. It isnt about GT or FSU here. It is about UNC, UVA and Duke getting what they want first. That is why GT/FSU would definitely happen in that setup. It's because UNC and UVA"s desired 3 rivals would not include GT.

(05-08-2015 02:00 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Do some research on how the conference is run. It isnt about GT or FSU here. It is about UNC, UVA and Duke getting what they want first. That is why GT/FSU would definitely happen in that setup. It's because UNC and UVA"s desired 3 rivals would not include GT.

And yet GT wound up in the "royal" division.

So, if the Tobacco Road conspiracy theory is correct, then GT's "wants" would likely supercede FSU's "wants". And again, I'm not convinced that GT would fight to get FSU as an annual rivalry game. FSU might, but I don't think GT would.

Personally, I'm all for giving FSU what they want. And the more time I spend on these boards I think FSU should actually run the conference itself. But I mainly want that because I'm dying to see what some FSU fans would whine about after FSU was in total control.

Cheers,
Neil

I was always under the impression that Miami wanted a Southern team to play annually aside from FSU, which is why Ga Tech got paired with Miami and Clemson with FSU

(05-08-2015 02:25 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 02:00 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Do some research on how the conference is run. It isnt about GT or FSU here. It is about UNC, UVA and Duke getting what they want first. That is why GT/FSU would definitely happen in that setup. It's because UNC and UVA"s desired 3 rivals would not include GT.

And yet GT wound up in the "royal" division.

So, if the Tobacco Road conspiracy theory is correct, then GT's "wants" would likely supercede FSU's "wants". And again, I'm not convinced that GT would fight to get FSU as an annual rivalry game. FSU might, but I don't think GT would.

Personally, I'm all for giving FSU what they want. And the more time I spend on these boards I think FSU should actually run the conference itself. But I mainly want that because I'm dying to see what some FSU fans would whine about after FSU was in total control.

Cheers,
Neil

Tell me who GT would want aside from UNC and UVA as their 3 rivals? Because those 2 schools have a preference for 3 or more without GT.

As I said it would be Duke, Clemson and FSU.

I never said GT has power over FSU. I said UVA/Duke/UNC run the conference and they always have. They picked their desired division when we all went to 12.

It's not a conspiracy. It's real history.

(05-08-2015 03:02 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 02:25 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 02:00 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Do some research on how the conference is run. It isnt about GT or FSU here. It is about UNC, UVA and Duke getting what they want first. That is why GT/FSU would definitely happen in that setup. It's because UNC and UVA"s desired 3 rivals would not include GT.

And yet GT wound up in the "royal" division.

So, if the Tobacco Road conspiracy theory is correct, then GT's "wants" would likely supercede FSU's "wants". And again, I'm not convinced that GT would fight to get FSU as an annual rivalry game. FSU might, but I don't think GT would.

Personally, I'm all for giving FSU what they want. And the more time I spend on these boards I think FSU should actually run the conference itself. But I mainly want that because I'm dying to see what some FSU fans would whine about after FSU was in total control.

Cheers,
Neil

Tell me who GT would want aside from UNC and UVA as their 3 rivals? Because those 2 schools have a preference for 3 or more without GT.

You're thinking like a fan, not like an AD or a President of a university.

If you have no divisions, and the top two teams will play each other for the football championship, you don't want both FSU and Clemson on the schedule every year.

It puts your program at a disadvantage.

It's the main reason why if the ACC goes to 16, the southern pod of FSU-Clemson-GT-Miami was impractical.

Fun to follow as a football fan, but a nightmare in terms of actual competitive disadvantage.

Which is why I made my comment about I'd love to see FSU in charge of the conference. Because precisely what some FSU fans on this board say is in the best interest of both the conference and for FSU, is simply not the reality of how the AD and president would see it.

I'll let you have the final say on this part of the thread.

Cheers,
Neil

(05-08-2015 04:02 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 03:02 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 02:25 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 02:00 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Do some research on how the conference is run. It isnt about GT or FSU here. It is about UNC, UVA and Duke getting what they want first. That is why GT/FSU would definitely happen in that setup. It's because UNC and UVA"s desired 3 rivals would not include GT.

And yet GT wound up in the "royal" division.

So, if the Tobacco Road conspiracy theory is correct, then GT's "wants" would likely supercede FSU's "wants". And again, I'm not convinced that GT would fight to get FSU as an annual rivalry game. FSU might, but I don't think GT would.

Personally, I'm all for giving FSU what they want. And the more time I spend on these boards I think FSU should actually run the conference itself. But I mainly want that because I'm dying to see what some FSU fans would whine about after FSU was in total control.

Cheers,
Neil

Tell me who GT would want aside from UNC and UVA as their 3 rivals? Because those 2 schools have a preference for 3 or more without GT.

You're thinking like a fan, not like an AD or a President of a university.

If you have no divisions, and the top two teams will play each other for the football championship, you don't want both FSU and Clemson on the schedule every year.

It puts your program at a disadvantage.

It's the main reason why if the ACC goes to 16, the southern pod of FSU-Clemson-GT-Miami was impractical.

Fun to follow as a football fan, but a nightmare in terms of actual competitive disadvantage.

Which is why I made my comment about I'd love to see FSU in charge of the conference. Because precisely what some FSU fans on this board say is in the best interest of both the conference and for FSU, is simply not the reality of how the AD and president would see it.

I'll let you have the final say on this part of the thread.

Cheers,
Neil

If an ad from a so called football school wants to avoid playing 2 or 3 legit teams a year in conference then he should be fired. There is no way to build your program up by playing a bunch of soft basketball schools.

I'm thinking like an AD who wants his team to improve and contend. You're thinking like a soft programs AD due for mediocrity at best forever. One can see why your view is the way it is

(05-08-2015 02:32 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I was always under the impression that Miami wanted a Southern team to play annually aside from FSU, which is why Ga Tech got paired with Miami and Clemson with FSU

Please take all that sense-making elsewhere.

(05-08-2015 02:25 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 02:00 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Do some research on how the conference is run. It isnt about GT or FSU here. It is about UNC, UVA and Duke getting what they want first. That is why GT/FSU would definitely happen in that setup. It's because UNC and UVA"s desired 3 rivals would not include GT.

And yet GT wound up in the "royal" division.

So, if the Tobacco Road conspiracy theory is correct, then GT's "wants" would likely supercede FSU's "wants". And again, I'm not convinced that GT would fight to get FSU as an annual rivalry game. FSU might, but I don't think GT would.

Personally, I'm all for giving FSU what they want. And the more time I spend on these boards I think FSU should actually run the conference itself. But I mainly want that because I'm dying to see what some FSU fans would whine about after FSU was in total control.

Cheers,
Neil

They would whine about not having a reason to whine.

(05-08-2015 03:02 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 02:25 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 02:00 PM)Ragu Wrote:  Do some research on how the conference is run. It isnt about GT or FSU here. It is about UNC, UVA and Duke getting what they want first. That is why GT/FSU would definitely happen in that setup. It's because UNC and UVA"s desired 3 rivals would not include GT.

And yet GT wound up in the "royal" division.

So, if the Tobacco Road conspiracy theory is correct, then GT's "wants" would likely supercede FSU's "wants". And again, I'm not convinced that GT would fight to get FSU as an annual rivalry game. FSU might, but I don't think GT would.

Personally, I'm all for giving FSU what they want. And the more time I spend on these boards I think FSU should actually run the conference itself. But I mainly want that because I'm dying to see what some FSU fans would whine about after FSU was in total control.

Cheers,
Neil

Tell me who GT would want aside from UNC and UVA as their 3 rivals? Because those 2 schools have a preference for 3 or more without GT.

As I said it would be Duke, Clemson and FSU.

I never said GT has power over FSU. I said UVA/Duke/UNC run the conference and they always have. They picked their desired division when we all went to 12.

It's not a conspiracy. It's real history.

Believe me Carolina really does not really care about playing NC State, but NC State demands to play Carolina.
Carolina's top 4 picks would be UVa, Dook, Wake Forest and Georgia Tech and since we have already started to schedule Wake Forest OOC it would move Georgia Tech into Carolina's top 3. Unfortunately the conference "expects" Carolina to play State and has even moved the game to rivalry weekend.
Regardless of what you may believe we don't always get what we want.

That's faulty logic. Gt isn't in your top 3 either way.

Duke wake and uva would be by your thinking. They would take the guaranteed game every year rather the scheduling wake sporadically out of conference

Plus I seriously doubt that unc wouldn't want nc state over gt anyways. Either way gt is not a top 3 desired school for unc

(05-08-2015 10:18 PM)Ragu Wrote:  That's faulty logic. Gt isn't in your top 3 either way.

Duke wake and uva would be by your thinking. They would take the guaranteed game every year rather the scheduling wake sporadically out of conference

Plus I seriously doubt that unc wouldn't want nc state over gt anyways. Either way gt is not a top 3 desired school for unc

No offense to you Ragu, I really don't want to be snarky here, but how the heck would you know about the desires of The University?

(05-09-2015 12:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 10:18 PM)Ragu Wrote:  That's faulty logic. Gt isn't in your top 3 either way.

Duke wake and uva would be by your thinking. They would take the guaranteed game every year rather the scheduling wake sporadically out of conference

Plus I seriously doubt that unc wouldn't want nc state over gt anyways. Either way gt is not a top 3 desired school for unc

No offense to you Ragu, I really don't want to be snarky here, but how the heck would you know about the desires of The University?

I'm not saying I do. I am saying you are spinning things to have gt in your top 3. Even throwing out nc state over gt which I don't buy.. You just said duke wake and uva over them. That's 3 teams. Don't care if you have some ooc games setup with wake.

And you don't have to go to a school to know. Tons of family in unc on my side and they have gt 5th

(05-09-2015 03:09 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(05-09-2015 12:40 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 10:18 PM)Ragu Wrote:  That's faulty logic. Gt isn't in your top 3 either way.

Duke wake and uva would be by your thinking. They would take the guaranteed game every year rather the scheduling wake sporadically out of conference

Plus I seriously doubt that unc wouldn't want nc state over gt anyways. Either way gt is not a top 3 desired school for unc

No offense to you Ragu, I really don't want to be snarky here, but how the heck would you know about the desires of The University?

I'm not saying I do. I am saying you are spinning things to have gt in your top 3. Even throwing out nc state over gt which I don't buy.. You just said duke wake and uva over them. That's 3 teams. Don't care if you have some ooc games setup with wake.

And you don't have to go to a school to know. Tons of family in unc on my side and they have gt 5th

You do realize that we are talking about the desires of the institution and not the fans, right?

In that case you wouldn't know either. Going to a school for education doesn't mean you know how administration for sports thinks.

We are talking top 3 desired games. No spin on ooc games. The bottom line is gt is not in Unc's top 3. We all know this

In the overall scheme of things, UNC gets more out of a trifecta with Duke, UVa, and GT, than a trifecta of Duke, UVa, and NC State. The largest concentration of UNC alums outside NC is in the Atlanta metro. Having a precense in Georiga every other year is important to UNC for many reasons.

NC State currently does not have an annual game with schools from Georgia, Virginia, or Maryland. It has hurt recruiting. FSU and Clemson have the proximity to the State of Georgia to help overcome some of that issue, but not NC State as we are 7 hours from Georgia.

Doesn't a 9 game schedule largely solve most of this with the added flexibility?

(05-09-2015 05:26 PM)RedGrad Wrote:  Doesn't a 9 game schedule largely solve most of this with the added flexibility?

Nope. You're about two years too late on this topic.