(05-04-2015 10:27 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 08:38 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I could see the MWC might pick up 4 more teams.
Houston, SMU, UTEP and BYU.
The 4 could wind up with more money. Tulane, Tulsa and Temple hurt AAC big time.

SMU wants nothing to do with the MWC schools.

Houston doesn't want to go, but they might listen if the money was *significantly* better.

UTEP would jump at the MWC, but the MWC doesn't want UTEP.

BYU will hold on to independence as long as they can.

Your projection is foolish.

Yeah, he mentioned the wrong Texas schools. Utep, TX st, utsa and unt or rice.

The issue is with the very weak AAC schools like Temple, U. Conn, Tulane and Tulsa. Even USF is weak in football. Houston, SMU and others joined thinking that West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and Syracuse would stay there, and get the AQ spots. Big 10, ACC and Big 12 killed the AAC AQ spot. Houston and SMU might see that the MWC have more spots into bowl games than the AAC. MWC is better in football than the AAC, and MWC got more teams in the basketball playoffs than the AAC did. Times change because the AAC was not what was promised to Houston and SMU before they joined.

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:32 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  This is why the Big 12 will not expand unless they are mandated to play a CCG with 12 teams which I seriously doubt will ever happen:

The Power 5 conferences will point to this data and expect us all to be dazzled by the "large" percentage increases of the G5 conferences from the BCS to CFP models. This is supposed to be a shining example of how generous and benevolent the "power" conferences are in sharing their crumbs with the wretched welfare queens known as the "gang" of 5.


Don't be fooled, its all a con.


The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Take a look at the combined revenue of the 5 Power conferences in the last year of the BCS and in the first year of the CFP, and the percentage of total revenue for each:

P5 BCS Rev = $164,688,755
Tot BCS Rev = $205,754,638
P5 % of Tot = 80.0%

P5 CFP Rev = $321,867,698
Tot CFP Rev = $402,939,299
P5 % of Tot Rev = 79.9%

BCS era of FBS- 11 members, 6 Haves, 5 Have Nots.
CFP era of FBS- 10 members, 5 Haves, 5 Have Nots.

Every single penny gained by the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC has come at the expense of the former Big East, not from the generosity of the P5. What the 5 Power Conferences have done is consolidate their power by creating a league that is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, all without giving away a fraction of their revenue share percentage. This would be an impressive power move if it were some sort of Game of Thrones scenario, but its not, its an amateur athletics league that cares more about securing the legacies of a handful of schools than promoting a sports league that is competitive and gives all of its members an opportunity to succeed.

A sport league with this type of revenue distribution and no direct path to a championship is a SCAM.

^^^ This is exactly right. Thanks to all the whoring little ***** schools, we're now in a sink whole that will ever get deeper.

Thank you MWC, CUSA, Mid-American Con, Sun Belt and all the rest of you ****** basketball conferences for airing in this travesty. May you regret your pact with the devil for eternity.

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Yes, but does anyone actually deny this?

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:32 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  This is why the Big 12 will not expand unless they are mandated to play a CCG with 12 teams which I seriously doubt will ever happen:

The Power 5 conferences will point to this data and expect us all to be dazzled by the "large" percentage increases of the G5 conferences from the BCS to CFP models. This is supposed to be a shining example of how generous and benevolent the "power" conferences are in sharing their crumbs with the wretched welfare queens known as the "gang" of 5.


Don't be fooled, its all a con.


The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Take a look at the combined revenue of the 5 Power conferences in the last year of the BCS and in the first year of the CFP, and the percentage of total revenue for each:

P5 BCS Rev = $164,688,755
Tot BCS Rev = $205,754,638
P5 % of Tot = 80.0%

P5 CFP Rev = $321,867,698
Tot CFP Rev = $402,939,299
P5 % of Tot Rev = 79.9%

BCS era of FBS- 11 members, 6 Haves, 5 Have Nots.
CFP era of FBS- 10 members, 5 Haves, 5 Have Nots.

Every single penny gained by the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC has come at the expense of the former Big East, not from the generosity of the P5. What the 5 Power Conferences have done is consolidate their power by creating a league that is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, all without giving away a fraction of their revenue share percentage. This would be an impressive power move if it were some sort of Game of Thrones scenario, but its not, its an amateur athletics league that cares more about securing the legacies of a handful of schools than promoting a sports league that is competitive and gives all of its members an opportunity to succeed.

A sport league with this type of revenue distribution and no direct path to a championship is a SCAM.

I get your point but I do think that the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC have achieved a "win" of sorts. By destroying the WAC and tearing down the Big East they have significantly altered their revenue positively. Looking at this chart makes you wonder whether the result will be that the M/C/MW/S are more competitive with the P5 over the course of the current contract. Perhaps that is how they make a case for a path to the championship when the next contract is negotiated. Look adding a million dollars to Texas, Michigan, USC, Alabama or FSU's budget isn't going to really move the needle. But adding that million to Ark St., Marshall, Boise St. or Northern Illinois could have a meaningful impact.

While the distribution has remained unchanged, not every dollar added is equal.

(05-05-2015 01:05 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 10:27 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 08:38 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:25 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I could see the MWC might pick up 4 more teams.
Houston, SMU, UTEP and BYU.
The 4 could wind up with more money. Tulane, Tulsa and Temple hurt AAC big time.

SMU wants nothing to do with the MWC schools.

Houston doesn't want to go, but they might listen if the money was *significantly* better.

UTEP would jump at the MWC, but the MWC doesn't want UTEP.

BYU will hold on to independence as long as they can.

Your projection is foolish.

Yeah, he mentioned the wrong Texas schools. Utep, TX st, utsa and unt or rice.

The issue is with the very weak AAC schools like Temple, U. Conn, Tulane and Tulsa. Even USF is weak in football. Houston, SMU and others joined thinking that West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Rutgers and Syracuse would stay there, and get the AQ spots. Big 10, ACC and Big 12 killed the AAC AQ spot. Houston and SMU might see that the MWC have more spots into bowl games than the AAC. MWC is better in football than the AAC, and MWC got more teams in the basketball playoffs than the AAC did. Times change because the AAC was not what was promised to Houston and SMU before they joined.

Houston was invited because WVU, Pittsburgh and Syracuse left. Rutgers and Louisville are the teams that left that led to invitations for Tulane, ECU, and Tulsa.

Quote:With only Cincinnati, South Florida and Connecticut (and Temple, at times) having been full members during the time period the conference was an automatic-qualifier under the BCS and receiving higher amounts of revenue

I'm fairly certain that Temple, Houston, SMU, UCF, and Memphis were all "full" members while the conference was still an automatic-qualifier, but good article Kristi...

(05-05-2015 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Yes, but does anyone actually deny this?

Actually, the Big East all moved to the P5 except for Temple who got kicked out and left their money behind. The AAC is the old CUSA.

UConn didn't play FBS until they got invited to the BE. Cincinnati and USF were CUSA until 2005. Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, UCF and ECU were invited from CUSA. Those 9 CUSA members + UConn and Temple were the AAC last year.

(05-05-2015 08:04 AM)monarchoptimist Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:32 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  This is why the Big 12 will not expand unless they are mandated to play a CCG with 12 teams which I seriously doubt will ever happen:

The Power 5 conferences will point to this data and expect us all to be dazzled by the "large" percentage increases of the G5 conferences from the BCS to CFP models. This is supposed to be a shining example of how generous and benevolent the "power" conferences are in sharing their crumbs with the wretched welfare queens known as the "gang" of 5.


Don't be fooled, its all a con.


The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Take a look at the combined revenue of the 5 Power conferences in the last year of the BCS and in the first year of the CFP, and the percentage of total revenue for each:

P5 BCS Rev = $164,688,755
Tot BCS Rev = $205,754,638
P5 % of Tot = 80.0%

P5 CFP Rev = $321,867,698
Tot CFP Rev = $402,939,299
P5 % of Tot Rev = 79.9%

BCS era of FBS- 11 members, 6 Haves, 5 Have Nots.
CFP era of FBS- 10 members, 5 Haves, 5 Have Nots.

Every single penny gained by the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC has come at the expense of the former Big East, not from the generosity of the P5. What the 5 Power Conferences have done is consolidate their power by creating a league that is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, all without giving away a fraction of their revenue share percentage. This would be an impressive power move if it were some sort of Game of Thrones scenario, but its not, its an amateur athletics league that cares more about securing the legacies of a handful of schools than promoting a sports league that is competitive and gives all of its members an opportunity to succeed.

A sport league with this type of revenue distribution and no direct path to a championship is a SCAM.

I get your point but I do think that the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC have achieved a "win" of sorts. By destroying the WAC and tearing down the Big East they have significantly altered their revenue positively. Looking at this chart makes you wonder whether the result will be that the M/C/MW/S are more competitive with the P5 over the course of the current contract. Perhaps that is how they make a case for a path to the championship when the next contract is negotiated. Look adding a million dollars to Texas, Michigan, USC, Alabama or FSU's budget isn't going to really move the needle. But adding that million to Ark St., Marshall, Boise St. or Northern Illinois could have a meaningful impact.

While the distribution has remained unchanged, not every dollar added is equal.

Looking at it another way, the G5 (especially the MW) greatly benefited from the change to the CFP. So I don't think its the con the poster made above.
% of payout MW vs Pac-12
BCS = MW had 13% vs PAC-12 revenue
CFP = MW has 34% vs PAC-12 revenue

The disparity of revenue just in the CFP has given the MW an increase of 20% which hopefully could translate to a more competitive conferences in a few years.

(05-05-2015 08:23 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-05-2015 08:04 AM)monarchoptimist Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:32 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  This is why the Big 12 will not expand unless they are mandated to play a CCG with 12 teams which I seriously doubt will ever happen:

The Power 5 conferences will point to this data and expect us all to be dazzled by the "large" percentage increases of the G5 conferences from the BCS to CFP models. This is supposed to be a shining example of how generous and benevolent the "power" conferences are in sharing their crumbs with the wretched welfare queens known as the "gang" of 5.


Don't be fooled, its all a con.


The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Take a look at the combined revenue of the 5 Power conferences in the last year of the BCS and in the first year of the CFP, and the percentage of total revenue for each:

P5 BCS Rev = $164,688,755
Tot BCS Rev = $205,754,638
P5 % of Tot = 80.0%

P5 CFP Rev = $321,867,698
Tot CFP Rev = $402,939,299
P5 % of Tot Rev = 79.9%

BCS era of FBS- 11 members, 6 Haves, 5 Have Nots.
CFP era of FBS- 10 members, 5 Haves, 5 Have Nots.

Every single penny gained by the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC has come at the expense of the former Big East, not from the generosity of the P5. What the 5 Power Conferences have done is consolidate their power by creating a league that is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, all without giving away a fraction of their revenue share percentage. This would be an impressive power move if it were some sort of Game of Thrones scenario, but its not, its an amateur athletics league that cares more about securing the legacies of a handful of schools than promoting a sports league that is competitive and gives all of its members an opportunity to succeed.

A sport league with this type of revenue distribution and no direct path to a championship is a SCAM.

I get your point but I do think that the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC have achieved a "win" of sorts. By destroying the WAC and tearing down the Big East they have significantly altered their revenue positively. Looking at this chart makes you wonder whether the result will be that the M/C/MW/S are more competitive with the P5 over the course of the current contract. Perhaps that is how they make a case for a path to the championship when the next contract is negotiated. Look adding a million dollars to Texas, Michigan, USC, Alabama or FSU's budget isn't going to really move the needle. But adding that million to Ark St., Marshall, Boise St. or Northern Illinois could have a meaningful impact.

While the distribution has remained unchanged, not every dollar added is equal.

Looking at it another way, the G5 (especially the MW) greatly benefited from the change to the CFP. So I don't think its the con the poster made above.
% of payout MW vs Pac-12
BCS = MW had 13% vs PAC-12 revenue
CFP = MW has 34% vs PAC-12 revenue

The disparity of revenue just in the CFP has given the MW an increase of 20% which hopefully could translate to a more competitive conferences in a few years.

The kicker is that the TV revenue difference has increased massively. Instead of the Pac 12 averaging around $7 million a year with WSU only getting about $3 million in conference distributions, all the Pac 12 schools have a $21 million average over the life of the contract (P12 distributed around $18 million last year). Meanwhile the MWC and AAC are making $1.5 to $2 million per school, only a little more than before.

(05-05-2015 07:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Yes, but does anyone actually deny this?

The other thing they did was make sure that every "Original Old BIG EAST" school had a landing spot-(whether intentional or not) and threw a lifeline to old C-USA School Louisville.

(05-04-2015 07:33 PM)YNot Wrote:  The very thought that Utah State could reach the Fiesta Bowl despite LOSING to BYU is enough to make BYU seriously reconsider independence.

So BYU might make a misguided realignment decision based on jealousy and an unfounded sense of entitlement?

Not every dime of the new money for the G5 came from the Big East. While the point is right about the 80% power conference revenue control being protected (the remaining 5 leagues collectively grew their membership in the process of the Big East's demise), the CFP itself grew revenues for the entire sport. The growth in G5 money was largely a result in the total revenue increase of the CFP (from $206M to $403M @ a flat 20%) not due just to vulturing the Big East/AAC successors. It looks like the breakdown is about an $8M per G5 league bump from revenue growth with the balance being a bit of vulturing.

The gap has grown, but the incremental dollars for G5 programs make football at that level much more viable. Those are the crucial true operating expense covering $ that they are getting. It probably lessens the need for some of those programs to play "body bag" games to cover expenses. If that results in G5 schools holding ground for more P5 H & H series, then its another hidden "win" for the G5. If each school gets an extra $1M per season, that's equal to about one less time they have to go get drilled annually by an SEC school to make their budgets. That is meaningful in a 12 game schedule.

The ultimate win would be for the G5 to negotiate better than 20% of the total revenue pool. That's not going to happen without a multiyear history of positive results on the field, in the stands, and TV #s. The former begets the latter two. So any chance to schedule and defeat P5 teams and otherwise create interest (including any outside the box thinking for scheduling inter league g5 games) for G5 programs/content is a must. Some examples: Access invitee winning their bowl game consistently, eventually leading to an invite to the playoff. And, I'd love to see a conference challenge in football between G5 leagues, much like the hoops events. Each team plays one game per season against a set opponent from a rival G5 league on a single weekend, or across 2 weekends, with the whole thing marketed as the CUSA vs MWC challange (or AAC, whatever).

I'm in awe of the Big12 per program CFP payout. The only way the other 4 leagues allow that disparity is because they have their own TV networks generating more than that revenue gap?

(05-05-2015 08:23 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-05-2015 08:04 AM)monarchoptimist Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:32 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  This is why the Big 12 will not expand unless they are mandated to play a CCG with 12 teams which I seriously doubt will ever happen:

The Power 5 conferences will point to this data and expect us all to be dazzled by the "large" percentage increases of the G5 conferences from the BCS to CFP models. This is supposed to be a shining example of how generous and benevolent the "power" conferences are in sharing their crumbs with the wretched welfare queens known as the "gang" of 5.


Don't be fooled, its all a con.


The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Take a look at the combined revenue of the 5 Power conferences in the last year of the BCS and in the first year of the CFP, and the percentage of total revenue for each:

P5 BCS Rev = $164,688,755
Tot BCS Rev = $205,754,638
P5 % of Tot = 80.0%

P5 CFP Rev = $321,867,698
Tot CFP Rev = $402,939,299
P5 % of Tot Rev = 79.9%

BCS era of FBS- 11 members, 6 Haves, 5 Have Nots.
CFP era of FBS- 10 members, 5 Haves, 5 Have Nots.

Every single penny gained by the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC has come at the expense of the former Big East, not from the generosity of the P5. What the 5 Power Conferences have done is consolidate their power by creating a league that is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, all without giving away a fraction of their revenue share percentage. This would be an impressive power move if it were some sort of Game of Thrones scenario, but its not, its an amateur athletics league that cares more about securing the legacies of a handful of schools than promoting a sports league that is competitive and gives all of its members an opportunity to succeed.

A sport league with this type of revenue distribution and no direct path to a championship is a SCAM.

I get your point but I do think that the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC have achieved a "win" of sorts. By destroying the WAC and tearing down the Big East they have significantly altered their revenue positively. Looking at this chart makes you wonder whether the result will be that the M/C/MW/S are more competitive with the P5 over the course of the current contract. Perhaps that is how they make a case for a path to the championship when the next contract is negotiated. Look adding a million dollars to Texas, Michigan, USC, Alabama or FSU's budget isn't going to really move the needle. But adding that million to Ark St., Marshall, Boise St. or Northern Illinois could have a meaningful impact.

While the distribution has remained unchanged, not every dollar added is equal.

Looking at it another way, the G5 (especially the MW) greatly benefited from the change to the CFP. So I don't think its the con the poster made above.
% of payout MW vs Pac-12
BCS = MW had 13% vs PAC-12 revenue
CFP = MW has 34% vs PAC-12 revenue

The disparity of revenue just in the CFP has given the MW an increase of 20% which hopefully could translate to a more competitive conferences in a few years.

the change in revenue percentages amongst the Have-Nots is nothing more than a rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:32 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  This is why the Big 12 will not expand unless they are mandated to play a CCG with 12 teams which I seriously doubt will ever happen:

The Power 5 conferences will point to this data and expect us all to be dazzled by the "large" percentage increases of the G5 conferences from the BCS to CFP models. This is supposed to be a shining example of how generous and benevolent the "power" conferences are in sharing their crumbs with the wretched welfare queens known as the "gang" of 5.


Don't be fooled, its all a con.


The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Take a look at the combined revenue of the 5 Power conferences in the last year of the BCS and in the first year of the CFP, and the percentage of total revenue for each:

P5 BCS Rev = $164,688,755
Tot BCS Rev = $205,754,638
P5 % of Tot = 80.0%

P5 CFP Rev = $321,867,698
Tot CFP Rev = $402,939,299
P5 % of Tot Rev = 79.9%

BCS era of FBS- 11 members, 6 Haves, 5 Have Nots.
CFP era of FBS- 10 members, 5 Haves, 5 Have Nots.

Every single penny gained by the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC has come at the expense of the former Big East, not from the generosity of the P5. What the 5 Power Conferences have done is consolidate their power by creating a league that is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, all without giving away a fraction of their revenue share percentage. This would be an impressive power move if it were some sort of Game of Thrones scenario, but its not, its an amateur athletics league that cares more about securing the legacies of a handful of schools than promoting a sports league that is competitive and gives all of its members an opportunity to succeed.

A sport league with this type of revenue distribution and no direct path to a championship is a SCAM.

The extra money didn't come from the Big East/AAC. The haves/have-nots money split percentages before and after are ALMOST EXACTLY the same (in fact, the G5 lost a tiny bit of ground). The extra money for each G5 conference came from growing the entire pie while eliminating the WAC. Eliminating the Big East from the P5 just increased the amount each P5 conference earned---but it didn't help the G5. What helped the G5 was the WAC leaving. The WAC collapse allowed the AAC to be added to the have-nots without forcing the G5 CFP funds to be split 6 ways instead of 5. The reality? The only reason the G5 schools are seeing more money under the CFP is because the pie is sooooo much bigger. The AAC losing their spot actually hurt the G5. If the AAC was still a P5, the "G4" would have been splitting their 75 million 4 ways instead of 5.

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:32 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  This is why the Big 12 will not expand unless they are mandated to play a CCG with 12 teams which I seriously doubt will ever happen:

The Power 5 conferences will point to this data and expect us all to be dazzled by the "large" percentage increases of the G5 conferences from the BCS to CFP models. This is supposed to be a shining example of how generous and benevolent the "power" conferences are in sharing their crumbs with the wretched welfare queens known as the "gang" of 5.


Don't be fooled, its all a con.


The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Every single penny gained by the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC has come at the expense of the former Big East, not from the generosity of the P5. What the 5 Power Conferences have done is consolidate their power by creating a league that is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, all without giving away a fraction of their revenue share percentage. This would be an impressive power move if it were some sort of Game of Thrones scenario, but its not, its an amateur athletics league that cares more about securing the legacies of a handful of schools than promoting a sports league that is competitive and gives all of its members an opportunity to succeed.

Despite what it looks like, it was a net benefit for everyone. The majority of the schools are happy with how things went down. Even several members of the AAC are happy with how things went down because it reunited some traditional rivals. In the end, most like the new set up.

(05-05-2015 11:28 AM)Artifice Wrote:  I'm in awe of the Big12 per program CFP payout. The only way the other 4 leagues allow that disparity is because they have their own TV networks generating more than that revenue gap?

"the other 4" really do not have a say so

1. the Big 12 pays out more in non-CFP money than the PAC 12 or ACC and that is not including any 3rd tier Big 12 revenues

2. the PAC12n pays out less than 1 million per year per team

3. the ACC has no network

4. the SECn has not paid out anything yet

5. The Big 12 is clearly not the "hated step child" people want to make it out to be or the conferences the others "look to hold back"

if that was the case the Big 12 would not be in the Sugar Bowl with the SEC earning the same total dollars as the SEC while the ACC gets a smaller payout for the Orange Bowl and a lesser overall team selection

the SEC and the Big 12 would not have just renewed a basketball series

6. as of the last several conference payouts the Big 12 was equal to the SEC without the inclusion of any Big 12 third tier money

so the Big 12 making that CFP money has nothing to do with the contracts other conferences have for TV deals

it is greatly overstated on this forum especially the desire for the others to "hold down the Big 12" or to "not let the Big 12 have something" and there is ample proof of this

Is it even appropriate to compare the Big East to the AAC? I know that the AAC is 'officially' the Big East... but all the other conferences largely remained intact, with a few additions or subtractions. The Big East lost 5/8 football members (Cuse, Pitt, WV, LV, Rutgers and technically TCU), plus lost the entire C7 as basketball members. That leaves 3 schools. Expecting any carry forward of income levels is ridiculous.

The American is essentially a brand new conference, and should be evaluated as such. Frankly, it's a bit undervalued also, since the dramatic instability occurred right as it was negotiating the TV deal (literally, didn't even have a NAME for the conference during the negotiations).

Apples and Oranges.

(05-05-2015 01:05 PM)Bull Wrote:  Is it even appropriate to compare the Big East to the AAC? I know that the AAC is 'officially' the Big East... but all the other conferences largely remained intact, with a few additions or subtractions. The Big East lost 5/8 football members (Cuse, Pitt, WV, LV, Rutgers and technically TCU), plus lost the entire C7 as basketball members. That leaves 3 schools. Expecting any carry forward of income levels is ridiculous.

The American is essentially a brand new conference, and should be evaluated as such. Frankly, it's a bit undervalued also, since the dramatic instability occurred right as it was negotiating the TV deal (literally, didn't even have a NAME for the conference during the negotiations).

Apples and Oranges.

Ship of Theseus. Still the BE, just sold the name to the BB schools.

(05-05-2015 08:04 AM)monarchoptimist Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:32 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  This is why the Big 12 will not expand unless they are mandated to play a CCG with 12 teams which I seriously doubt will ever happen:

The Power 5 conferences will point to this data and expect us all to be dazzled by the "large" percentage increases of the G5 conferences from the BCS to CFP models. This is supposed to be a shining example of how generous and benevolent the "power" conferences are in sharing their crumbs with the wretched welfare queens known as the "gang" of 5.


Don't be fooled, its all a con.


The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Take a look at the combined revenue of the 5 Power conferences in the last year of the BCS and in the first year of the CFP, and the percentage of total revenue for each:

P5 BCS Rev = $164,688,755
Tot BCS Rev = $205,754,638
P5 % of Tot = 80.0%

P5 CFP Rev = $321,867,698
Tot CFP Rev = $402,939,299
P5 % of Tot Rev = 79.9%

BCS era of FBS- 11 members, 6 Haves, 5 Have Nots.
CFP era of FBS- 10 members, 5 Haves, 5 Have Nots.

Every single penny gained by the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC has come at the expense of the former Big East, not from the generosity of the P5. What the 5 Power Conferences have done is consolidate their power by creating a league that is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, all without giving away a fraction of their revenue share percentage. This would be an impressive power move if it were some sort of Game of Thrones scenario, but its not, its an amateur athletics league that cares more about securing the legacies of a handful of schools than promoting a sports league that is competitive and gives all of its members an opportunity to succeed.

A sport league with this type of revenue distribution and no direct path to a championship is a SCAM.

I get your point but I do think that the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC have achieved a "win" of sorts. By destroying the WAC and tearing down the Big East they have significantly altered their revenue positively. Looking at this chart makes you wonder whether the result will be that the M/C/MW/S are more competitive with the P5 over the course of the current contract. Perhaps that is how they make a case for a path to the championship when the next contract is negotiated. Look adding a million dollars to Texas, Michigan, USC, Alabama or FSU's budget isn't going to really move the needle. But adding that million to Ark St., Marshall, Boise St. or Northern Illinois could have a meaningful impact.

While the distribution has remained unchanged, not every dollar added is equal.

Adding that million allows all of the G5 to pay COA without touching previously available resources. FCS programs do not have that luxury. Autonomy and the CFP only increased revenue for both P5 and G5 schools, ever so slightly increased the slim chance of a G5 winning a national title and widened the gap between FBS and FCS.

(05-05-2015 11:57 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 11:39 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(05-04-2015 07:32 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  This is why the Big 12 will not expand unless they are mandated to play a CCG with 12 teams which I seriously doubt will ever happen:

The Power 5 conferences will point to this data and expect us all to be dazzled by the "large" percentage increases of the G5 conferences from the BCS to CFP models. This is supposed to be a shining example of how generous and benevolent the "power" conferences are in sharing their crumbs with the wretched welfare queens known as the "gang" of 5.


Don't be fooled, its all a con.


The P5 did not sacrifice a dime for the G5. What they sacrificed was their 6th partner, the BE/AAC. The P5 used the Big East to leverage a majority vote amongst the 10 league members for years, ultimately creating the most blatantly lopsided and corrupt sports league in the country. Once all of the chips were stacked in their favor and it came time to negotiate a new FBS TV contract the BE lost its usefulness and was gutted, stuffed in a trunk and driven out to the woods to be buried in a shallow grave, never to be heard from again.

Take a look at the combined revenue of the 5 Power conferences in the last year of the BCS and in the first year of the CFP, and the percentage of total revenue for each:

P5 BCS Rev = $164,688,755
Tot BCS Rev = $205,754,638
P5 % of Tot = 80.0%

P5 CFP Rev = $321,867,698
Tot CFP Rev = $402,939,299
P5 % of Tot Rev = 79.9%

BCS era of FBS- 11 members, 6 Haves, 5 Have Nots.
CFP era of FBS- 10 members, 5 Haves, 5 Have Nots.

Every single penny gained by the MAC/CUSA/MWC/SBC has come at the expense of the former Big East, not from the generosity of the P5. What the 5 Power Conferences have done is consolidate their power by creating a league that is weaker now than it was 15 years ago, all without giving away a fraction of their revenue share percentage. This would be an impressive power move if it were some sort of Game of Thrones scenario, but its not, its an amateur athletics league that cares more about securing the legacies of a handful of schools than promoting a sports league that is competitive and gives all of its members an opportunity to succeed.

A sport league with this type of revenue distribution and no direct path to a championship is a SCAM.

The extra money didn't come from the Big East/AAC. The haves/have-nots money split percentages before and after are ALMOST EXACTLY the same (in fact, the G5 lost a tiny bit of ground). The extra money for each G5 conference came from growing the entire pie while eliminating the WAC. Eliminating the Big East from the P5 just increased the amount each P5 conference earned---but it didn't help the G5. What helped the G5 was the WAC leaving. The WAC collapse allowed the AAC to be added to the have-nots without forcing the G5 CFP funds to be split 6 ways instead of 5. The reality? The only reason the G5 schools are seeing more money under the CFP is because the pie is sooooo much bigger. The AAC losing their spot actually hurt the G5. If the AAC was still a P5, the "G4" would have been splitting their 75 million 4 ways instead of 5.

I agree that the WAC was a factor that should have been mentioned. The 6 non P5 conferences of the BCS era- Big East, WAC, MAC, MWC, CUSA and SBC split 20% of the revenue with the Big East getting most of it, now that 20% is more evenly across 5 conferences. You are correct that the elimination of the WAC helped the other non-P5s but its the spreading of the Big East's P5-sized chunk of revenue throughout that had the biggest impact.