(04-21-2015 11:53 AM)Ragu Wrote:  True the sec has a huge bias but Ohio state isn't sec. They lost to va tech and looked like crap vs teams like navy and pen st and they got in


That wouldn't happen for fsu. The acc has a huge negative perception and it is a big problem. And that isn't on schools like fsu and Clemson to fix. It's on the leaches to do their part

The acc hurts fsu right now.

ok, i'll pile on with you...it is a fact that the acc does not have a deep bench. so when fsu is down, the acc suffers. I believe the epidemic is hiring coaches on the cheap. it yields low performance in recruiting and on the field.

UNC has no excuse for not fielding a good to great, nationally relevant team every year. plenty of money to get good assistants, facilities, etc. other problem is changing the culture. chizik could help out a lot here. no shortage of recruits in NC.

UVa - see UNC. no shortage of recruits in VA either.

VT - is beamer retired on the job? I mean, foster is a great DC, but beamer didn't exactly help him out by hiring loeffler. good grief.

Miami - how anyone can be located in the middle of the sweetest recruiting area in the country and consistently underachieve is mind boggling. you shouldn't even have to get on a plane to go recruiting for crying out loud.

GT - great year last year. keep it up.

NCSU - should be a solid 8 win team most years.

Louisville - will be a force to be reckoned with under petrino.

BC - addazio is a huge step up from spaz.

Cuse - find the next mcnabb. fast. shafer isn't the answer, IMO.

WF - bless their hearts.

I agree. FSU should definitely go to the SEC...er, Big Ten...er, the Big 12. What are you waiting for - a rape whistle? Time is of the essence.

(04-21-2015 11:38 AM)Ragu Wrote:  So in other words, FSU has to be super human and dominant to get in and not have bad perception. Alabama can lose to Ole Miss and such and get in. OSu can lose to Va Tech and get in. But FSU has to be unbeatable while being undefeated to get in easily with good perception.

And that isnt an ACC problem at all right? Please....

Of course it's an ACC problem. The league is perceived as weak because it is weak. So is the Big Ten. The two are the weakest of the P5. A great Ohio State team nearly got left out because their league was perceived as weak. FSU's not the only school in that boat.

I find it amazing that Warchant was actually able to get an interview with Swofford. Despite years of requests the only only one that Tigernet, the largest Clemson website by far, has ever been able to get with him was an informal Q&A at at the 2012 baseball tournament with a bunch of other reporters.

Who runs the Clemson site? I think this guy is a Talahassee newspaper guy right? Maybe the right person isn't asking.

(04-21-2015 12:20 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I agree. FSU should definitely go to the SEC...er, Big Ten...er, the Big 12. What are you waiting for - a rape whistle? Time is of the essence.

Maybe the ACC fans should quit worrying about FSU carrying them and talking about FSU whining and use your energy to get your own programs to actually contribute in the main revenue sport.

The other programs are the problem and why FSU and it's fans have issues with the ACC.

(04-21-2015 12:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-21-2015 11:38 AM)Ragu Wrote:  So in other words, FSU has to be super human and dominant to get in and not have bad perception. Alabama can lose to Ole Miss and such and get in. OSu can lose to Va Tech and get in. But FSU has to be unbeatable while being undefeated to get in easily with good perception.

And that isnt an ACC problem at all right? Please....

Of course it's an ACC problem. The league is perceived as weak because it is weak. So is the Big Ten. The two are the weakest of the P5. A great Ohio State team nearly got left out because their league was perceived as weak. FSU's not the only school in that boat.

OSU lost a game AND played like crap against inferior programs like Navy and Penn St. THey wouldnt get in like OSU did. It's not the same thing at all...

The year started with SEC West schools being hyped to the moon - skewing things off the bat.
Ohio State lost early but lost to decent name team not that VT had a great team.
Winston had media problems all year long.

All of these factors play into the perception of FSU - then comes the season:

Schedule[edit]


Date

Time

Opponent#

Rank#

Site

TV

Result

Attendance

August 30 8:00 p.m. vs. Oklahoma State* #1 AT&T Stadium • Arlington, TX (Cowboys Classic) ABC W 37–31 61,521

OSU beaten only by 6 points

September 6 7:30 p.m. The Citadel* #1 Doak Campbell Stadium • Tallahassee, FL RSN W 37–12 81,294

September 20 8:00 p.m. #22 Clemson #1 Doak Campbell Stadium • Tallahassee, FL (Rivalry) ABC W 23–17 OT 82,316

Clemson pisses the game away on national TV - then eventually loses their star QB costing them two more games.

September 27 3:30 p.m. at NC State #1 Carter–Finley Stadium • Raleigh, NC ABC/ESPN2 W 56–41 57,583

NC State hangs with FSU for almost 3.5 quarters - yet NC State stunk the year before

October 4 3:30 p.m. Wake Forest #1 Doak Campbell Stadium • Tallahassee, FL ABC W 43–3 82,327

October 11 12:00 p.m. at Syracuse #1 Carrier Dome • Syracuse, NY ESPN W 38–20 43,295

October 18 8:00 p.m. #5 Notre Dame* #2 Doak Campbell Stadium • Tallahassee, FL ABC W 31–27 82,431

A lot of the media thought ACC officials gave the game to FSU - then ND went into a tailspin

October 30 7:30 p.m. at Louisville #2 Papa John's Cardinal Stadium • Louisville, KY ESPN W 42–31 55,414

November 8 6:30 p.m. Virginiadagger #2 Doak Campbell Stadium • Tallahassee, FL (Jefferson–Eppes Trophy) ESPN W 34–20 82,325

November 15 8:00 p.m. at Miami (FL) #2 Sun Life Stadium • Miami Gardens, FL (Rivalry) ABC W 30–26 76,530

FSU gets by a crappy Miami team

November 22 3:30 p.m. Boston College #1 Doak Campbell Stadium • Tallahassee, FL ABC/ESPN2 W 20–17 82,300

FSU gets by a medium BC team

November 29 3:30 p.m. Florida* #1 Doak Campbell Stadium • Tallahassee, FL (Rivalry) ESPN W 24–19 82,485

FSU gets by a crappy Florida team

December 6 8:00 p.m. vs. #12 Georgia Tech #2 Bank of America Stadium • Charlotte, NC (ACC Championship) ABC W 37–35 64,808

FSU just edges GT

January 1 5:00 p.m. vs. #3 Oregon* #2 Rose Bowl • Pasadena, CA (Rose Bowl – College Football Playoff) ESPN L 20–59 91,322
*Non-conference game. daggerHomecoming. #Rankings from AP Poll released prior to game. All times are in Eastern Time..

In the past, winning was all that mattered.

With the SEC West overhyped all season. And with OSU destroying Wisconsin in the B10 title game. Is it any wonder that FSU's relatively poor performance against OSU, NC State, Miami, and Florida would haunt them and the late season collapse of Clemson due to injury and ND didn't help.

FSU didn't put a beat down on anyone in 2014 - they won their games, but the perception was formed as much as how they won, not who they beat.

(04-21-2015 12:20 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(04-21-2015 11:53 AM)Ragu Wrote:  True the sec has a huge bias but Ohio state isn't sec. They lost to va tech and looked like crap vs teams like navy and pen st and they got in


That wouldn't happen for fsu. The acc has a huge negative perception and it is a big problem. And that isn't on schools like fsu and Clemson to fix. It's on the leaches to do their part

The acc hurts fsu right now.

ok, i'll pile on with you...it is a fact that the acc does not have a deep bench. so when fsu is down, the acc suffers. I believe the epidemic is hiring coaches on the cheap. it yields low performance in recruiting and on the field.

UNC has no excuse for not fielding a good to great, nationally relevant team every year. plenty of money to get good assistants, facilities, etc. other problem is changing the culture. chizik could help out a lot here. no shortage of recruits in NC.

UVa - see UNC. no shortage of recruits in VA either.

VT - is beamer retired on the job? I mean, foster is a great DC, but beamer didn't exactly help him out by hiring loeffler. good grief.

Miami - how anyone can be located in the middle of the sweetest recruiting area in the country and consistently underachieve is mind boggling. you shouldn't even have to get on a plane to go recruiting for crying out loud.

GT - great year last year. keep it up.

NCSU - should be a solid 8 win team most years.

Louisville - will be a force to be reckoned with under petrino.

BC - addazio is a huge step up from spaz.

Cuse - find the next mcnabb. fast. shafer isn't the answer, IMO.

WF - bless their hearts.

It is clear he isn't the answer to everyone other than those who refuse to take off their orange colored glasses.

In their defense I believe they are afraid to admit he is not the answer in fear that it is admitting the football program is broken beyond repair.

Which I get but he is NOT the answer. Nor do I understand why the school is so cheap about hiring a football coach.

(04-21-2015 12:46 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  Who runs the Clemson site? I think this guy is a Talahassee newspaper guy right? Maybe the right person isn't asking.

Two Clemson graduates. They started it while students at Clemson 20 years ago. It now employs former beat reporters and SC radio hosts and is a fully credentialed media entity by the conference.

with 'friends' like Swofford, who needs enemies?

Like the time Clemson got hammered by the NCAA and the ACC leadership came in and increased the punishment.

we aren't a unified group like the SEC in athletics. We don't want to cooperate with academics like the Big 10...

The ACC eats it's own........


This reality, paired with the lowest payout and coming revenue gaps, and a refusal to move to a football future is why the ACC is unstable.


ACC is the new Big East and it will break up like the Big East.

(04-21-2015 11:53 AM)Ragu Wrote:  True the sec has a huge bias but Ohio state isn't sec. They lost to va tech and looked like crap vs teams like navy and pen st and they got in


That wouldn't happen for fsu. The acc has a huge negative perception and it is a big problem. And that isn't on schools like fsu and Clemson to fix. It's on the leaches to do their part

The acc hurts fsu right now.

FSU was happy to join the "leeches" when it did because it let them be the big fish in the little pond, and have an easy path to a guaranteed spot in a BCS bowl. Those "leeches" haven't changed, and they aren't likely to. They are today pretty much what they were 30 years ago. The pond is still little. What is different today is that there is a playoff berth at stake, not just a bowl berth.

There isn't going to be any "fix" for the ACC relative to the CFP by somehow getting the other league members to change their spots and become something they are not now, and never have been. The only way the ACC will get appreciably stronger in football is to add more strong football teams and only strong football teams.

If that isn't going to happen for whatever reason, then the only decision left for schools like FSU and Clemson is whether to stay and accept the status quo or leave.

(04-21-2015 12:46 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  Who runs the Clemson site? I think this guy is a Talahassee newspaper guy right? Maybe the right person isn't asking.

He used to write for the Tallahassee Democrat, but apparently as another sign that papers are dying, left the Democrat for Warchant last year.

(04-21-2015 01:26 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-21-2015 11:53 AM)Ragu Wrote:  True the sec has a huge bias but Ohio state isn't sec. They lost to va tech and looked like crap vs teams like navy and pen st and they got in


That wouldn't happen for fsu. The acc has a huge negative perception and it is a big problem. And that isn't on schools like fsu and Clemson to fix. It's on the leaches to do their part

The acc hurts fsu right now.

FSU was happy to join the "leeches" when it did because it let them be the big fish in the little pond, and have an easy path to a guaranteed spot in a BCS bowl. Those "leeches" haven't changed, and they aren't likely to. They are today pretty much what they were 30 years ago. The pond is still little. What is different today is that there is a playoff berth at stake, not just a bowl berth.

Funny. Totally false, but funny nonetheless.

FSU agreed to join the ACC in 1990 and the BCS didn't start until 1998. That's one hell of a case of foresight on the part of FSU, let me tell you.

They were also joining conference with a Clemson team coming off four straight 10 wins seasons, a UVA team that had finally decided to get up off the mat, and what appeared to be resurgent Duke and GT programs.

(04-21-2015 01:26 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-21-2015 11:53 AM)Ragu Wrote:  True the sec has a huge bias but Ohio state isn't sec. They lost to va tech and looked like crap vs teams like navy and pen st and they got in


That wouldn't happen for fsu. The acc has a huge negative perception and it is a big problem. And that isn't on schools like fsu and Clemson to fix. It's on the leaches to do their part

The acc hurts fsu right now.

FSU was happy to join the "leeches" when it did because it let them be the big fish in the little pond, and have an easy path to a guaranteed spot in a BCS bowl. Those "leeches" haven't changed, and they aren't likely to. They are today pretty much what they were 30 years ago. The pond is still little. What is different today is that there is a playoff berth at stake, not just a bowl berth.

There isn't going to be any "fix" for the ACC relative to the CFP by somehow getting the other league members to change their spots and become something they are not now, and never have been. The only way the ACC will get appreciably stronger in football is to add more strong football teams and only strong football teams.

If that isn't going to happen for whatever reason, then the only decision left for schools like FSU and Clemson is whether to stay and accept the status quo or leave.

Um FSU joined the ACC way before the BCS even existed...

It wasn't to avoid competition either. Miami and Nebraska and Notre Dame were common OOC games back then for them on top of Florida. Want to research and see their strength of schedule? FSU was built by playing anyone anywhere. They werent avoiding anyone in the 90s.

The SEC deal came about last minute after they teased FSU for years so FSU went to the ACC. Deal looked good at the time but can be seen as a mistake now. And that ACC was a Southern conference without being the Big East hodge podge it is now too. At least then they played the closest team to them more than twice in 12 years (GT).

The ACC was better then and the SEC wasnt nearly as good then as it is now.

I'm well aware when the BCS started. I was only suggesting that FSU was joining a conference they, and everybody else, knew they would dominate. FSU wasn't ducking good competition OOC. It was about the only place it could find any. The ACC wasn't "better then". It was as mediocre as it has always been. Every once in a blue moon one team or another would have a good year, and get relatively high in the rankings until they played somebody good. Then they'd get their butts whipped more often than not.

My bigger point is that, IMO, if you are waiting for the schools that have been mediocre for 40 years to start getting better, you are likely to be disappointed.

(04-21-2015 01:26 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-21-2015 11:53 AM)Ragu Wrote:  True the sec has a huge bias but Ohio state isn't sec. They lost to va tech and looked like crap vs teams like navy and pen st and they got in


That wouldn't happen for fsu. The acc has a huge negative perception and it is a big problem. And that isn't on schools like fsu and Clemson to fix. It's on the leaches to do their part

The acc hurts fsu right now.

FSU was happy to join the "leeches" when it did because it let them be the big fish in the little pond, and have an easy path to a guaranteed spot in a BCS bowl. Those "leeches" haven't changed, and they aren't likely to. They are today pretty much what they were 30 years ago. The pond is still little. What is different today is that there is a playoff berth at stake, not just a bowl berth.

There isn't going to be any "fix" for the ACC relative to the CFP by somehow getting the other league members to change their spots and become something they are not now, and never have been. The only way the ACC will get appreciably stronger in football is to add more strong football teams and only strong football teams.

If that isn't going to happen for whatever reason, then the only decision left for schools like FSU and Clemson is whether to stay and accept the status quo or leave.

FSU thought the ACC would GROW.

It didn't....it is stagnant.

No academic growth to mirror the Big 10 CIC research consortium.

No movement in closing (never going to catch) football gap with SEC and other conferences (some schools better...some worse, atmospheres same...but compared to SEC/B1G, same gap there)

FSU saw great potential......what happened was resistance to change above ALL ELSE. A refusal to grow or change.

Still just a basketball conference only.

(04-21-2015 02:07 PM)ken d Wrote:  I'm well aware when the BCS started. I was only suggesting that FSU was joining a conference they, and everybody else, knew they would dominate. FSU wasn't ducking good competition OOC. It was about the only place it could find any. The ACC wasn't "better then". It was as mediocre as it has always been. Every once in a blue moon one team or another would have a good year, and get relatively high in the rankings until they played somebody good. Then they'd get their butts whipped more often than not.

My bigger point is that, IMO, if you are waiting for the schools that have been mediocre for 40 years to start getting better, you are likely to be disappointed.

FYI, ACC had the highest conference payout at the time. Now it is the last.

So one could argue it isn't the same....there was more promise then.


I don't see why UNC and UVA can't get better? Bobby Bowden always said UNC was a sleeping giant.

There are so many schools over the last 3 decades who where nowhere and became great. ACC has 14 schools....odds are a few of them could make a similar jump. The culture just has to allow for it.

here's how you fix the acc for fsu, Clemson and the "football schools" - stack the atlantic division. plenty of SOS with the division schedule, add 2 good OOC. problem solved. looks a lot like a north-south split.

atlantic - coastal
VT - UVa
NCSU - UNC
WF - Duke
CU - BC
GT - Pitt
FSU - Louisville
Miami - Syracuse

(04-21-2015 02:17 PM)nole Wrote:  

(04-21-2015 02:07 PM)ken d Wrote:  I'm well aware when the BCS started. I was only suggesting that FSU was joining a conference they, and everybody else, knew they would dominate. FSU wasn't ducking good competition OOC. It was about the only place it could find any. The ACC wasn't "better then". It was as mediocre as it has always been. Every once in a blue moon one team or another would have a good year, and get relatively high in the rankings until they played somebody good. Then they'd get their butts whipped more often than not.

My bigger point is that, IMO, if you are waiting for the schools that have been mediocre for 40 years to start getting better, you are likely to be disappointed.

FYI, ACC had the highest conference payout at the time. Now it is the last.

So one could argue it isn't the same....there was more promise then.


I don't see why UNC and UVA can't get better? Bobby Bowden always said UNC was a sleeping giant.

There are so many schools over the last 3 decades who where nowhere and became great. ACC has 14 schools....odds are a few of them could make a similar jump. The culture just has to allow for it.

So many of the people on here and elsewhere are under 25 or just didnt know college football back then. That is where you get the garbage on FSU ducking the SEC and wanting the ACC because it was easier and such.

It's revisionist history to say the least.

Plus they were playing teams like Georgia Tech and North Carolina instead of fricken Boston College and Syracuse. They didnt sign up for NE schools in 1990.