(03-23-2015 07:29 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

I'm glad they got the win. Maybe now Kansas will man up and schedule them now.

(03-23-2015 08:24 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 07:29 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

I'm glad they got the win. Maybe now Kansas will man up and schedule them now.

doubt it.

I'm going with the opposite. Lifetime moratorium on playing the Shocks

I think They ought to build an Arena in Dodge city and have an annual "Shootout" there. Anyway, loved seeing that game. It's another version of the "Dream Game" that should be played annually .

(03-23-2015 08:24 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  I'm glad they got the win. Maybe now Kansas will man up and schedule them now.

I have no personal love for Kansas as an Illini guy that saw Bill Self leave us in a lurch, but completely understand their stance. You have to put yourself in the shoes of the actual decision makers (as opposed to a fan). If your job is running the Kansas athletic department, there is absolutely NO reason whatsoever that you schedule a home-and-home with Wichita State. NONE. KU is a blue blood national program that is in the position to pick and choose whoever they want to play on the road in the non-conference portion of the schedule and can get much more valuable schools for their interests. Over the past couple of years, they've had home-and-home series against schools like Florida, Georgetown and Ohio State plus the Champions Classic against Duke, Kentucky and Michigan State plus another high profile preseason holiday tournament. You don't use a non-conference game away from Lawrence on Wichita State if you're in the position of Kansas - it's 100% upside for Wichita State and 100% downside for KU (plus the opportunity cost of KU not using that game away from Lawrence in a more valuable location for recruiting and/or TV purposes).

Now, if Wichita State wanted to come to Lawrence without a return game, then that's a different story. Of course, Wichita State doesn't want to do that anymore (which I understand, too, since they believe they're a good enough program to not need to play one-and-done games going forward), so that's the reason for the stalemate.

I'm not saying that's the best for us as fans, but it's completely rational on the part of Kansas, just as it's completely rational for power schools in both football and basketball to not travel on the road to places that don't serve their interests (particularly the smaller in-state schools that are going to look at those games as their personal Super Bowl/Final Four/World Series).

Nothing to gain by playing Wichita St?

Complete hogwash.

(03-23-2015 10:24 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Nothing to gain by playing Wichita St?

Complete hogwash.

Nope - not AT Wichita State. Kansas can play an entire slew of power programs nationally when they choose to play away from Lawrence. Why would they use one of those games to play at Wichita State? It makes no sense from their perspective. I know that it bothers a lot of non-power conference schools that power schools will think this way, but if any of us were actually running a power school athletic department, it becomes pretty clear. There is no reason IN THE INTEREST OF KANSAS to play at Wichita State away from Lawrence compared to being able to play Florida, Ohio State, Kentucky, Michigan State, Duke, etc. instead. Emphasis is on the interest of Kansas because they have the market power to choose whoever they want to play. The interest of Wichita State is irrelevant because they don't have that same market power.

Once again, if Wichita State wants to play at Lawrence without a return game, then sure, Kansas has no reason to not schedule them. However, Wichita State also thinks that prospect is beneath them, which is their right. They just can't really complain that Kansas is "ducking them", though. Until Wichita State becomes a more valuable game for Kansas compared to the programs that I listed above, then there's no real reason for Kansas to visit Wichita. It's all too easy for the school without the power to schedule who they want to complain about the school who can play anyone who they want in the entire country supposedly "ducking them".

Remember gents, stay insular, be exclusive, stay snobby like academia.


I think Wichita State football could beat Kansas football too.

(03-23-2015 10:33 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Remember gents, stay insular, be exclusive, stay snobby like academia.


I think Wichita State football could beat Kansas football too.

Wichita State doesn't have D1 football. They got rid of it after a horrible accident back in the early 1970s. They do have a stadium and play football at a lower level.

http://www.kansas.com/news/article1124488.html

(03-23-2015 09:27 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 08:24 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  I'm glad they got the win. Maybe now Kansas will man up and schedule them now.

I have no personal love for Kansas as an Illini guy that saw Bill Self leave us in a lurch, but completely understand their stance. You have to put yourself in the shoes of the actual decision makers (as opposed to a fan). If your job is running the Kansas athletic department, there is absolutely NO reason whatsoever that you schedule a home-and-home with Wichita State. NONE.

Self talked about it once and implied that some big KU boosters are strongly opposed to scheduling Wichita. His salary is probably largely funded by those same boosters. And it's good to have those boosters in your corner just in case, for example, you lose in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament a few times.

(03-23-2015 10:33 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 10:24 AM)CougarRed Wrote:  Nothing to gain by playing Wichita St?

Complete hogwash.

Nope - not AT Wichita State. Kansas can play an entire slew of power programs nationally when they choose to play away from Lawrence. Why would they use one of those games to play at Wichita State? It makes no sense from their perspective. I know that it bothers a lot of non-power conference schools that power schools will think this way, but if any of us were actually running a power school athletic department, it becomes pretty clear. There is no reason IN THE INTEREST OF KANSAS to play at Wichita State away from Lawrence compared to being able to play Florida, Ohio State, Kentucky, Michigan State, Duke, etc. instead. Emphasis is on the interest of Kansas because they have the market power to choose whoever they want to play. The interest of Wichita State is irrelevant because they don't have that same market power.

Once again, if Wichita State wants to play at Lawrence without a return game, then sure, Kansas has no reason to not schedule them. However, Wichita State also thinks that prospect is beneath them, which is their right. They just can't really complain that Kansas is "ducking them", though. Until Wichita State becomes a more valuable game for Kansas compared to the programs that I listed above, then there's no real reason for Kansas to visit Wichita. It's all too easy for the school without the power to schedule who they want to complain about the school who can play anyone who they want in the entire country supposedly "ducking them".

Kansas could always give up one of their "buy games" ---- they hosted ALL of UCSB, Rider, Lafayette and Kent State this year in such games --- for a home & home with Wichita State.

It is what it is: KU would rather schedule Rider and make $$$ vs. scheduling a home-and-home with Wichita State.

(03-23-2015 11:05 AM)NittanyLion Wrote:  Kansas could always give up one of their "buy games" ---- they hosted ALL of UCSB, Rider, Lafayette and Kent State this year in such games --- for a home & home with Wichita State.

It is what it is: KU would rather schedule Rider and make $$$ vs. scheduling a home-and-home with Wichita State.

Let's be fair: every power school does the same. Trying to tell a Big Ten or SEC school to have fewer than 7 home football games per season (or at least the revenue equivalent) is basically heresy to those athletic departments.

The first five words of your post encapsulate the issue: "Kansas could always give up..." See, that's the problem. If you're running the KU athletic department, why would you give up a single cent in order to play Wichita State (who gets waaaaaaaaaaay more out of the game than you do in the first place)? I understand fans hate this mentality, but if your job is on the line as an AD, then you'd think a whole lot differently. At the end of the day, it isn't the KU AD's job to placate the fans of Wichita State.

(03-23-2015 10:38 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

I just spit my coffee out of my mouth...lol

(03-23-2015 11:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Let's be fair: every power school does the same.

Doesn't justify their reasons for not doing though. If Kentucky can play in-state schools, no reason why Kansas can't do the same.

FWIW, KU already schedules very aggressively in non-conference. I think they had the #1 noncon SOS this year. It's not like they are scheduling patsies in lieu of the Shockers. They want a national schedule that's designed with recruiting and the post-season in mind.

(03-23-2015 11:48 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 11:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Let's be fair: every power school does the same.

Doesn't justify their reasons for not doing though. If Kentucky can play in-state schools, no reason why Kansas can't do the same.

Does Kentucky play any in-state school outside of Lexington besides Louisville (which is right next to Kentucky as the most revenue-rich basketball program in America, so they're financial equals)? I took a quick perusal at the schedules for the last 5 years for UK and they haven't done so. Like I've said, I'm pretty sure that Kansas doesn't have an issue if Wichita State were to play in Lawrence without a return game (just as UK has played other in-state schools ONLY in Lexington). The issue is Wichita State's demand for a home-and-home series - you're not seeing Kentucky going on the ROAD to Western Kentucky or Eastern Kentucky (and no one should expect them to do so).

(03-23-2015 11:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 11:05 AM)NittanyLion Wrote:  Kansas could always give up one of their "buy games" ---- they hosted ALL of UCSB, Rider, Lafayette and Kent State this year in such games --- for a home & home with Wichita State.

It is what it is: KU would rather schedule Rider and make $$$ vs. scheduling a home-and-home with Wichita State.

Let's be fair: every power school does the same. Trying to tell a Big Ten or SEC school to have fewer than 7 home football games per season (or at least the revenue equivalent) is basically heresy to those athletic departments.

The first five words of your post encapsulate the issue: "Kansas could always give up..." See, that's the problem. If you're running the KU athletic department, why would you give up a single cent in order to play Wichita State (who gets waaaaaaaaaaay more out of the game than you do in the first place)? I understand fans hate this mentality, but if your job is on the line as an AD, then you'd think a whole lot differently. At the end of the day, it isn't the KU AD's job to placate the fans of Wichita State.

To use a couple examples from the college football world, if I'm running the Penn State or Michigan State athletic department, why would I give up a single cent in order to play a road game at Temple or Western Michigan?

Yet, those games are on the schedule in week 1 of the college football season.

I guess I'm an idealist, but not everything in college athletics needs to be a "revenue optimization" exercise.

(03-23-2015 11:48 AM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-23-2015 11:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Let's be fair: every power school does the same.

Doesn't justify their reasons for not doing though. If Kentucky can play in-state schools, no reason why Kansas can't do the same.

Kentucky only plays teams like EKU or WKU in Lexington. They don't complain that UK will only play them in Lexington, and it would be a monster upset if they ever beat UK. So it's the same as any other "king" program. Calipari even takes it further -- he won't schedule any non-con game other than Louisville on the road; the rest are all in Lexington or against a name opponent at a neutral site.