(03-06-2015 12:00 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:51 AM)zfred12 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:28 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:19 AM)zfred12 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:14 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Going from inception to a P5 conference as quickly as we did, the number of P5 wins in the short amount of time and being ranked #2 in the nation within 10 years of inception. Unfortunately, we just haven't been able to take all that momentum and turn it into a "full season".

I believe (have to double check) that we were the youngest team to ever beat Notre Dame, Auburn, Clemson, Miami and FSU. that was a fact that was relayed to me but I haven't fully checked out the 100 plus year history of all teams.

That giant influx of money and being in a power conference definitely helped usf and gave you an advantage over UCF. If youth of the program is some kind of moral victory for you (even though we have been playing D1 ball only 5 years longer than you) then keep using that and skip holtz as your scapegoat. Isn't it odd that Holtz was successful everywhere he went except usf, did he forget how to coach at usf and then remember again at la tech?

Holtz is a good lower level coach. He coached at Conference USA was successful. Moved up to a BCS conference and sucked. He moved back to CUSA and is successful. He just isn't an elite coach and coach at the higher ranks.
and again, nice editing of your history. Does it give you a moral victory to knock off 15 years to make you look better? Stop. Seriously. If your going to debate at least be honest about it.

Earning 8x what we were is a big difference. We started football 18 years before you guys did yes (1979 vs 1997). We have 5 more years as D1 yes. Nothing I said in my other posts was inaccurate I don't think. UCF played 16 seasons in divisions lower than DI (1979-1995) but I think a decent argument can be made that jumping into the Big East in 2001 provided an advantage equal to or better than 16 seasons in DIII and DII. Thats where we disagree I suppose.

Does usf have a trophy case or are you waiting to order one once you win something? Or do you just put in plaques of those huge wins in there lol? Half kidding, all in good fun smack talk.

Again, you dont address the amount of money but instead convert it to a multiple to make it sound better. $3 million dollar difference in sports revenue isnt crap and we both know it. That argument is just silly.

18 years of head start... now theres something money cant buy.... and we have plenty of trophies. The football one is coming... like ive said, compare the overall sports programs of our two schools over the life of the program and Ill take USF every day... then add in our higher academic ranking, higher endowment.... you see where I am going :)

You got your BCS win. Good for you. Within the next 18 years, well match that easily.

Yeah but are years in DIII and DII equal to years in DI? That's where its just really hard to compare. We are comparing apples and oranges. A decent argument can be made for each side. Thats why I wanted to try and use # of years in DI because I do not value 1 year in DIII the same as I value 1 year in DI wouldn't you agree? So giving you 18 more years to accomplish what we did doesn't exactly seem completely fair (strictly for comparison's sake its not your fault we took so long to get DI). But hey were both gonna spin it in the way that makes our school look better. Might just have to agree to disagree. The answer to these questions generally lie somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.

(03-06-2015 11:46 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:11 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  just for fun though, Id love to hear your list of who you would hire to replace him. Please remember that if we fire CWT next year that we will have 3 ex coaches that were paying, so the max amount we can cough up would be barely a million a year. Lets see who you think wants to take over a struggling program for a million bucks. This should be an awesome list.

i still think you're over blaming holtz, i said 3 years because he's had 3 recruiting seasons ad not brought in 1 legitimate qb..thats on him not holtz..qb is the most important position on the field

the wierd thing is that it has been holtz recruits that has carried you guys the last two years and taggts recruits that has been letting you down..from dede to davis to your TE's.. lynch, rysheen, white have been the ones that have been dissappointing, marlon might have been the only standout recruit he'd had despite "great" recruiting classes...

the wierd thing is taggart is a offensive "guru" but your offense has been horrific to extreme levels ...
taggart was a 7-5 coach in the sunbelt, i just dont think he was ever that great a coach

and as far as the finiancial situation look at houston, we had just given levine an extension just built a stadium and were 5mil in the red cause the stadium cost more than expected, but we still firded levine and hired tom herman and gave his staff the highest salary in the G5..they will fire him if he doesnt make a bowl, take a risk on a high profile coach on loan on the hope he can resurge the fanbase with ticket sales like houston did

as for your question coaches, id probably go the assistant route but a quality assistant. this league is turning into an offense big 12 type league, so id look for an offensive spread minded head coach with expertise in that, a guy that can recruit, a run first coach because run fist teams work for teams that recruit well

options: auburn's OC Rhett Lashlee oregons OC scott frost...those are my top 2
as far a proven coaches pelini would be a good option, Mark Hudspeth from ULL and matt wells from utah st wouldn't be bad options even though none are technically spread teams

Butch Davis with his ties to miami wouldn't be a bad option either

Your actually wrong. Almost every starter we had last year was a Taggart guy. We had the youngest team in FBS as far as experience last year. Thats why I think Tag gets some time. take that talent and give it two years to grow and our defense will be bad ass.
As far as QB... yep, its been miserable. We landed White who as you know won the 5A title and should have been great. Then he signed Q Flowers who was a 4 star kid but needs time to grow and then this year we signed another quality QB in Bret Kean. Hes signing guys but recruiting is a crapshoot. On paper white should be killing it. Hes not. theres a real chance that Flowers is our QB this year. The team follows him since hes a true leader. Hes very mobile, so maybe the spread run offense will be his forte.

and as far as coaches... only the first two you listed we could afford. Houstons a different beast. USF cannot run in the red like that. Our board wont allow us to. Scott Frost has been rumored as a person Harlan would be interested in and I think he could be good... but hes even less proven then Taggart.

I want Taggart to get 2 more years, as long as this year isnt a step back. Ive met him and I really like him. Hes a quality man with morals and character. Hes a dynamic recruiter and made a few rookie mistakes but given some time I think he will make USF very succesfull. I am also a massive fan of our new DC. Tom Allen is a coach. A real teacher of the game who drill fundamentals. Our last DC was an NFL guy who didnt clean up the messy play and poor tackling. Hes also installing a new defense that allows maximizes our athletic ability. Many of our kids arent the prototypical size for their position...otherwise they would be at FSU or UF. His defense allows them to use their athletic ability and swarm to the plays.
I honestly believe his defense will win us at least a couple more games then last year.

(03-06-2015 12:09 PM)zfred12 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 12:00 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:51 AM)zfred12 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:28 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:19 AM)zfred12 Wrote:  That giant influx of money and being in a power conference definitely helped usf and gave you an advantage over UCF. If youth of the program is some kind of moral victory for you (even though we have been playing D1 ball only 5 years longer than you) then keep using that and skip holtz as your scapegoat. Isn't it odd that Holtz was successful everywhere he went except usf, did he forget how to coach at usf and then remember again at la tech?

Holtz is a good lower level coach. He coached at Conference USA was successful. Moved up to a BCS conference and sucked. He moved back to CUSA and is successful. He just isn't an elite coach and coach at the higher ranks.
and again, nice editing of your history. Does it give you a moral victory to knock off 15 years to make you look better? Stop. Seriously. If your going to debate at least be honest about it.

Earning 8x what we were is a big difference. We started football 18 years before you guys did yes (1979 vs 1997). We have 5 more years as D1 yes. Nothing I said in my other posts was inaccurate I don't think. UCF played 16 seasons in divisions lower than DI (1979-1995) but I think a decent argument can be made that jumping into the Big East in 2001 provided an advantage equal to or better than 16 seasons in DIII and DII. Thats where we disagree I suppose.

Does usf have a trophy case or are you waiting to order one once you win something? Or do you just put in plaques of those huge wins in there lol? Half kidding, all in good fun smack talk.

Again, you dont address the amount of money but instead convert it to a multiple to make it sound better. $3 million dollar difference in sports revenue isnt crap and we both know it. That argument is just silly.

18 years of head start... now theres something money cant buy.... and we have plenty of trophies. The football one is coming... like ive said, compare the overall sports programs of our two schools over the life of the program and Ill take USF every day... then add in our higher academic ranking, higher endowment.... you see where I am going :)

You got your BCS win. Good for you. Within the next 18 years, well match that easily.

Yeah but are years in DIII and DII equal to years in DI? That's where its just really hard to compare. We are comparing apples and oranges. A decent argument can be made for each side. Thats why I wanted to try and use # of years in DI because I do not value 1 year in DIII the same as I value 1 year in DI wouldn't you agree? So giving you 18 more years to accomplish what we did doesn't exactly seem completely fair (strictly for comparison's sake its not your fault we took so long to get DI). But hey were both gonna spin it in the way that makes our school look better. Might just have to agree to disagree. The answer to these questions generally lie somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.

You dont count 18 years of growing a fan base. 18 years of building relationships with local schools? 18 years of building facilities?

Remember that when we started, nobody knew of us, we had no relationships and our facilities were an empty field and a construction trailer.

18 years is a large amount of time, then add in you were D1 before us and we still got the Big East bid. You just cant discount all that time, whereas I can quantify the small amount of additional money we got. Then add in that we had higher travel costs since CUSA didnt go into Conneticut, New york and other further away areas. The amount that we "made" extra wasnt really that much.
As far as recruiting, trust me, being in the Big East did very little. Ask anyone that was in it. The Big east was openly mocked on Tv and was a running joke. It again was minimal help.

(03-06-2015 12:20 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 12:09 PM)zfred12 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 12:00 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:51 AM)zfred12 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:28 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Holtz is a good lower level coach. He coached at Conference USA was successful. Moved up to a BCS conference and sucked. He moved back to CUSA and is successful. He just isn't an elite coach and coach at the higher ranks.
and again, nice editing of your history. Does it give you a moral victory to knock off 15 years to make you look better? Stop. Seriously. If your going to debate at least be honest about it.

Earning 8x what we were is a big difference. We started football 18 years before you guys did yes (1979 vs 1997). We have 5 more years as D1 yes. Nothing I said in my other posts was inaccurate I don't think. UCF played 16 seasons in divisions lower than DI (1979-1995) but I think a decent argument can be made that jumping into the Big East in 2001 provided an advantage equal to or better than 16 seasons in DIII and DII. Thats where we disagree I suppose.

Does usf have a trophy case or are you waiting to order one once you win something? Or do you just put in plaques of those huge wins in there lol? Half kidding, all in good fun smack talk.

Again, you dont address the amount of money but instead convert it to a multiple to make it sound better. $3 million dollar difference in sports revenue isnt crap and we both know it. That argument is just silly.

18 years of head start... now theres something money cant buy.... and we have plenty of trophies. The football one is coming... like ive said, compare the overall sports programs of our two schools over the life of the program and Ill take USF every day... then add in our higher academic ranking, higher endowment.... you see where I am going :)

You got your BCS win. Good for you. Within the next 18 years, well match that easily.

Yeah but are years in DIII and DII equal to years in DI? That's where its just really hard to compare. We are comparing apples and oranges. A decent argument can be made for each side. Thats why I wanted to try and use # of years in DI because I do not value 1 year in DIII the same as I value 1 year in DI wouldn't you agree? So giving you 18 more years to accomplish what we did doesn't exactly seem completely fair (strictly for comparison's sake its not your fault we took so long to get DI). But hey were both gonna spin it in the way that makes our school look better. Might just have to agree to disagree. The answer to these questions generally lie somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.

You dont count 18 years of growing a fan base. 18 years of building relationships with local schools? 18 years of building facilities?

Remember that when we started, nobody knew of us, we had no relationships and our facilities were an empty field and a construction trailer.

18 years is a large amount of time, then add in you were D1 before us and we still got the Big East bid. You just cant discount all that time, whereas I can quantify the small amount of additional money we got. Then add in that we had higher travel costs since CUSA didnt go into Conneticut, New york and other further away areas. The amount that we "made" extra wasnt really that much.
As far as recruiting, trust me, being in the Big East did very little. Ask anyone that was in it. The Big east was openly mocked on Tv and was a running joke. It again was minimal help.

I agree with most of what you have said. 18 years to build a fan base, build relationship, and build facilities is an advantage. I don't know how to check but I don't think we built very many if any football facilities during that time. My main point is that 18 years of DIII and DII (while a helpful advantage) is not equal to 18 years at the DI level. So giving usf 18 extra years to accomplish what we have does not seem fair becuase all of those 18 years will be DI. I have no idea how to compare it accurately and I don't think there is a way to do it. Im mostly referring to your comment of if you give us 18 more years we will "easily" accomplish what UCF has done now. I just dont think giving you 18 years DI to accomplish what we have done is equal to the 18 year head start we had in DII and DIII. The best way I saw to compare the two is to compare years at the DI level because usf had 8X the amount of money (roughly 3.5 mill) for a number of years and were in a AQ conference but we had a "head start". I dont know how long that was the difference in contracts but if it was 10 years thats an extra 35 million not exactly chump change. Its apples and oranges so I dont know a better way to compare the schools and what we have accomplished.

(03-06-2015 12:20 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 12:09 PM)zfred12 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 12:00 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:51 AM)zfred12 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:28 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Holtz is a good lower level coach. He coached at Conference USA was successful. Moved up to a BCS conference and sucked. He moved back to CUSA and is successful. He just isn't an elite coach and coach at the higher ranks.
and again, nice editing of your history. Does it give you a moral victory to knock off 15 years to make you look better? Stop. Seriously. If your going to debate at least be honest about it.

Earning 8x what we were is a big difference. We started football 18 years before you guys did yes (1979 vs 1997). We have 5 more years as D1 yes. Nothing I said in my other posts was inaccurate I don't think. UCF played 16 seasons in divisions lower than DI (1979-1995) but I think a decent argument can be made that jumping into the Big East in 2001 provided an advantage equal to or better than 16 seasons in DIII and DII. Thats where we disagree I suppose.

Does usf have a trophy case or are you waiting to order one once you win something? Or do you just put in plaques of those huge wins in there lol? Half kidding, all in good fun smack talk.

Again, you dont address the amount of money but instead convert it to a multiple to make it sound better. $3 million dollar difference in sports revenue isnt crap and we both know it. That argument is just silly.

18 years of head start... now theres something money cant buy.... and we have plenty of trophies. The football one is coming... like ive said, compare the overall sports programs of our two schools over the life of the program and Ill take USF every day... then add in our higher academic ranking, higher endowment.... you see where I am going :)

You got your BCS win. Good for you. Within the next 18 years, well match that easily.

Yeah but are years in DIII and DII equal to years in DI? That's where its just really hard to compare. We are comparing apples and oranges. A decent argument can be made for each side. Thats why I wanted to try and use # of years in DI because I do not value 1 year in DIII the same as I value 1 year in DI wouldn't you agree? So giving you 18 more years to accomplish what we did doesn't exactly seem completely fair (strictly for comparison's sake its not your fault we took so long to get DI). But hey were both gonna spin it in the way that makes our school look better. Might just have to agree to disagree. The answer to these questions generally lie somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.

You dont count 18 years of growing a fan base. 18 years of building relationships with local schools? 18 years of building facilities?

Remember that when we started, nobody knew of us, we had no relationships and our facilities were an empty field and a construction trailer.

18 years is a large amount of time, then add in you were D1 before us and we still got the Big East bid. You just cant discount all that time, whereas I can quantify the small amount of additional money we got. Then add in that we had higher travel costs since CUSA didnt go into Conneticut, New york and other further away areas. The amount that we "made" extra wasnt really that much.
As far as recruiting, trust me, being in the Big East did very little. Ask anyone that was in it. The Big east was openly mocked on Tv and was a running joke. It again was minimal help.

What facilities do you think we were building as a D-II and D-III program? What we leveled a field and planted some grass? Our first coach at the D-III level wasn't even paid and there certainly weren't available funds for facilities construction.

Here's a list of major UCF football facilities, which all came after we became a D-I/FBS program.

Brighthouse Networks Stadium: 2007
Indoor Practice Facility: 2005
Wayne Densch Sports Center (football offices): 2003

(03-06-2015 12:09 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Your actually wrong. Almost every starter we had last year was a Taggart guy. We had the youngest team in FBS as far as experience last year. Thats why I think Tag gets some time. take that talent and give it two years to grow and our defense will be bad ass.
As far as QB... yep, its been miserable. We landed White who as you know won the 5A title and should have been great. Then he signed Q Flowers who was a 4 star kid but needs time to grow and then this year we signed another quality QB in Bret Kean. Hes signing guys but recruiting is a crapshoot. On paper white should be killing it. Hes not. theres a real chance that Flowers is our QB this year. The team follows him since hes a true leader. Hes very mobile, so maybe the spread run offense will be his forte.

and as far as coaches... only the first two you listed we could afford. Houstons a different beast. USF cannot run in the red like that. Our board wont allow us to. Scott Frost has been rumored as a person Harlan would be interested in and I think he could be good... but hes even less proven then Taggart.

I want Taggart to get 2 more years, as long as this year isnt a step back. Ive met him and I really like him. Hes a quality man with morals and character. Hes a dynamic recruiter and made a few rookie mistakes but given some time I think he will make USF very succesfull. I am also a massive fan of our new DC. Tom Allen is a coach. A real teacher of the game who drill fundamentals. Our last DC was an NFL guy who didnt clean up the messy play and poor tackling. Hes also installing a new defense that allows maximizes our athletic ability. Many of our kids arent the prototypical size for their position...otherwise they would be at FSU or UF. His defense allows them to use their athletic ability and swarm to the plays.
I honestly believe his defense will win us at least a couple more games then last year.

andre davis your best player was a holtz guy, 100% f your Starting OL were holtz recruited players, not a single taggart recruit cracked your oline starting line up. both you TE that have been huge for your offense price and mcfarland were holtz players...not even mentioning kloss, dunkley and the honestly the majorty of your impact players were holtz players ...

so please show me where im wrong, and your stat about being the younget in the FBS just isnt true at all even experience wise you wouldnt even crack top 3 of least experienced team in this league (tulane, tulsa, temple had way younger/less experienced players)

white won a state championship thats nice so did half the qbs in our League, this is FBS D1, but he had zero P5 offers and marshall was the only other fbs team to offer him and recruit him hard, lets not make him seem like he some top recruit....flowers was a 4star Athlete and was only giving that rating on his potential as a WR, thats a fact, you can look at his high school stats or high school record if you need prove... and kean doesnt seem anything special....taggart has needed a qb for a while and has yet to bring in a legit touted recruit or atleast a proven juco... IMO opinion you guys would have been a better team if holtz had stayed the coach and brought in Asiantii Woulard (im not saying he shouldnt have been fired just sayng he's better than taggart)

and ps your board aproved to fire your AD for lack of revenue sport success and hired your new ADsimply on the purpose to be competitve in revenue sports, do you honestly think your board who voted to fire your old AD mainly becuase of taggart, and your new AD who knows why the old AD was fired is for some reason going to sit on a Hire they didn't make?

the writing is on the wall and its obvious to everyone, even taggart knows or he wouldnt have fired everyone and and desperatly trying to switch system in such short order...its bowl or bust for him

(03-06-2015 01:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 12:09 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Your actually wrong. Almost every starter we had last year was a Taggart guy. We had the youngest team in FBS as far as experience last year. Thats why I think Tag gets some time. take that talent and give it two years to grow and our defense will be bad ass.
As far as QB... yep, its been miserable. We landed White who as you know won the 5A title and should have been great. Then he signed Q Flowers who was a 4 star kid but needs time to grow and then this year we signed another quality QB in Bret Kean. Hes signing guys but recruiting is a crapshoot. On paper white should be killing it. Hes not. theres a real chance that Flowers is our QB this year. The team follows him since hes a true leader. Hes very mobile, so maybe the spread run offense will be his forte.

and as far as coaches... only the first two you listed we could afford. Houstons a different beast. USF cannot run in the red like that. Our board wont allow us to. Scott Frost has been rumored as a person Harlan would be interested in and I think he could be good... but hes even less proven then Taggart.

I want Taggart to get 2 more years, as long as this year isnt a step back. Ive met him and I really like him. Hes a quality man with morals and character. Hes a dynamic recruiter and made a few rookie mistakes but given some time I think he will make USF very succesfull. I am also a massive fan of our new DC. Tom Allen is a coach. A real teacher of the game who drill fundamentals. Our last DC was an NFL guy who didnt clean up the messy play and poor tackling. Hes also installing a new defense that allows maximizes our athletic ability. Many of our kids arent the prototypical size for their position...otherwise they would be at FSU or UF. His defense allows them to use their athletic ability and swarm to the plays.
I honestly believe his defense will win us at least a couple more games then last year.

andre davis your best player was a holtz guy, 100% f your Starting OL were holtz recruited players, not a single taggart recruit cracked your oline starting line up. both you TE that have been huge for your offense price and mcfarland were holtz players...not even mentioning kloss, dunkley and the honestly the majorty of your impact players were holtz players ...

so please show me where im wrong, and your stat about being the younget in the FBS just isnt true at all even experience wise you wouldnt even crack top 3 of least experienced team in this league (tulane, tulsa, temple had way younger/less experienced players)

white won a state championship thats nice so did half the qbs in our League, this is FBS D1, but he had zero P5 offers and marshall was the only other fbs team to offer him and recruit him hard, lets not make him seem like he some top recruit....flowers was a 4star Athlete and was only giving that rating on his potential as a WR, thats a fact, you can look at his high school stats or high school record if you need prove... and kean doesnt seem anything special....taggart has needed a qb for a while and has yet to bring in a legit touted recruit or atleast a proven juco... IMO opinion you guys would have been a better team if holtz had stayed the coach and brought in Asiantii Woulard (im not saying he shouldnt have been fired just sayng he's better than taggart)

and ps your board aproved to fire your AD for lack of revenue sport success and hired your new ADsimply on the purpose to be competitve in revenue sports, do you honestly think your board who voted to fire your old AD mainly becuase of taggart, and your new AD who knows why the old AD was fired is for some reason going to sit on a Hire they didn't make?

the writing is on the wall and its obvious to everyone, even taggart knows or he wouldnt have fired everyone and and desperatly trying to switch system in such short order...its bowl or bust for him

I think the switch is just undoing a good amount of the little progress that was made. Maybe atleast you're working with a better talent base. But usf fans shouldn't underestimate how difficult it is to get all new coaches and switching schemes in one offseason even with a veteran and experienced team let alone a young one.

(03-06-2015 11:14 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:06 AM)NTXCoog Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:00 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Were young but have done what nobody has and weve done it clean.

What has USF done that no one else has?

Going from inception to a P5 conference as quickly as we did, the number of P5 wins in the short amount of time and being ranked #2 in the nation within 10 years of inception. Unfortunately, we just haven't been able to take all that momentum and turn it into a "full season".

I believe (have to double check) that we were the youngest team to ever beat Notre Dame, Auburn, Clemson, Miami and FSU. that was a fact that was relayed to me but I haven't fully checked out the 100 plus year history of all teams.

You're not in a P5 conference, you were in a BCS conference. And that had NOTHING to do with on field success. Arguably USF's lack of success has helped contribute to the poor reputation of the AAC.

And again mid-season ranking is worthless. Finish a season ranked. Every team in the conference except UConn has done that. And they've been at the FBS level for a shorter time than you have.

Win a conference title. Every other team in the conference has done that.

And you beat a limited list of teams. 8-5 ND, 9-4 Auburn, 6-7 Clemson (ooh, that's something to brag about. beating a .500 team), 7-6 Miami, and 7-6 FSU. 1 of those teams finished ranked. It's nice that you won those games, but don't act like other teams in our conference haven't beaten teams like that. Within UH's first 10 years, we beat Arizona State, Arkansas, Baylor, Louisville, Okie State, Tennessee, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech. Without looking, I'm betting many of those teams had bad records, but doesn't it look impressive? We weren't in the position to play some of the teams you listed, but we played others you didn't. So can't I say we beat nationally recognized teams USF didn't in 10 years?

The newer team thing cuts both ways. Yes, it looks good that you accomplished some things in that time. But what you HAVEN'T done (which every other team in the conference has done shows the point that one of your big accomplishments (joining a BCS conference) had nothing to do with your team's on field success.

(03-06-2015 11:14 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I believe (have to double check) that we were the youngest team to ever beat Notre Dame, Auburn, Clemson, Miami and FSU.

BTW: UH is above .500 (20-19) against those teams while USF is below .500 (5-7) against them.

First off we didn't choose to be d3. You have specific guidelines for each level of football. Btw that was different at the time we started football. Secondly you had to be allowed into d1 which we weren't at the time. 3rd the only decision that we made that impacted the big east decision was staying Indy and trying to get into the sec at the time. Remember tv dollars didn't mean as much then. Your bball program and facilities were better than ours at the time because we hadn't built the arena yet. (Remember cusa was a bball centric league at it's inception). Please don't tell me that 35m, bcs access, and recruiting advantages wasn't an advantage. Having to play d1 and d2 was not. The fanbase of a d3 program is not an advantage.

(03-06-2015 06:50 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  First off we didn't choose to be d3. You have specific guidelines for each level of football. Btw that was different at the time we started football. Secondly you had to be allowed into d1 which we weren't at the time. 3rd the only decision that we made that impacted the big east decision was staying Indy and trying to get into the sec at the time. Remember tv dollars didn't mean as much then. Your bball program and facilities were better than ours at the time because we hadn't built the arena yet. (Remember cusa was a bball centric league at it's inception). Please don't tell me that 35m, bcs access, and recruiting advantages wasn't an advantage. Having to play d1 and d2 was not. The fanbase of a d3 program is not an advantage.

I am saying that being in the Big East wasnt much of an advantage. Talk to any of the other teams that were. Any other BCS conference and Id say yes but you have no idea how little people cared about the BE. Try being openly mocked on ESPN every week... yea, that really brings em in!

$3 million a year isnt a big gap at all and every freaking one of you know it. Cut the BS on that end. In this day and age that isnt even 10% of an athletic budget and wouldnt make a major difference.

What recruiting advantage are you talking about? We all live under the same recruiting rules.

(03-06-2015 07:48 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 06:50 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  First off we didn't choose to be d3. You have specific guidelines for each level of football. Btw that was different at the time we started football. Secondly you had to be allowed into d1 which we weren't at the time. 3rd the only decision that we made that impacted the big east decision was staying Indy and trying to get into the sec at the time. Remember tv dollars didn't mean as much then. Your bball program and facilities were better than ours at the time because we hadn't built the arena yet. (Remember cusa was a bball centric league at it's inception). Please don't tell me that 35m, bcs access, and recruiting advantages wasn't an advantage. Having to play d1 and d2 was not. The fanbase of a d3 program is not an advantage.

I am saying that being in the Big East wasnt much of an advantage. Talk to any of the other teams that were. Any other BCS conference and Id say yes but you have no idea how little people cared about the BE. Try being openly mocked on ESPN every week... yea, that really brings em in!

$3 million a year isnt a big gap at all and every freaking one of you know it. Cut the BS on that end. In this day and age that isnt even 10% of an athletic budget and wouldnt make a major difference.

What recruiting advantage are you talking about? We all live under the same recruiting rules.

You were in a bcs league and had a tv contract. How is that not an advantage. Also the school brands were better brands.

3.5m per year is a big deal when you make 500k. We could have done a lot with that.

We will have to agree to disagree

(03-06-2015 11:25 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:15 AM)zfred12 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 11:00 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 10:51 AM)zfred12 Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 10:07 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I am saying when your program is less then a decade old, that yes, you do run into depth issues. I think the starting team for that year could have won out the season if healthy but we were devastated by injuries. I am not talking just a handful of guys. It was one of the hardest hit seasons of injuries that weve had.
The point was, it really didnt have anything to do with his coaching. Theres no amount of coaching that can overcome experience.... especially on Oline. It takes years to develop as an offensive linemen. Its why it is the lowest rate for freshman to start.
We had tremendous promise that year but the youth of our program bit us in the ass. I am still proud of what we accomplished. No other team in the history of football has moved up to #2 that quick but it is what it is and we have rebuilding to do now.

and as far as Oleary... he didnt "learn" anything. Leavitt had his number solid. Hes coaching against an inferior team right now but that wont last forever. I really wish all that happened hadnt gone down (since many dont believe he really slapped the kid) It would have been interesting to see if the longevity of Oleary and Leavitt at both schools. I have a tendency to think that the talk of both schools going to the B12 would be much stronger in that scenario.

Well, it also helps get to that #2 ranking so fast (even if it was just 1 week) when you jump to what used to be a "power conference" so quickly. For that reason usf had an advantage over UCF in both money and talent. Now that we are on even footing, UCF is currently the better program and we have accomplished more (we did start playing d1 in 1996 so we have a few years head start). I know its been a rough couple of years for usf but I look forward to a black friday game with a lot on the line for both teams once usf is back on the upswing (hopefully said upswing waits until we even the series at 4-4). That's what will make this a great rivalry.

You have a few better years, Ill give you that but as an overall athletic program USF is still way ahead in head to head.
Comparable, when USF has as many years of football as UCF I think you will see that we will exceed where yall are currently. Hard to compare the two since UCF had a massive head start.

Were young but have done what nobody has and weve done it clean. Id like more wins right now but I am proud of where weve been and where we will be.

We have both been D1 for around the same number of years. I wouldnt consider 15 years in DIII or DII a "massive" head start lol. We joined D1 in 1996 and yall did a few years after in 01 i think. So you have 5 years to win more than 4 conference championships and get a BCS win if you think you will accomplish more than us LOL. Its really different to have to start you program from scratch and to have to claw your way up to D1 in a short period of time. You guys had it easy being able to join the Big East and get a huge $$$ advantage so early.

Why do UCF fans think its ok to just edit when they started football? I know it makes your argument sound better but the simple fact is you had a program 15 years before your start date.
If your going to talk about USFs "advantage" being in the BCS conference (which it really wasnt since the Big East was the most disrespected conference ever) then you at least have to be honest about your origins.

You didnt "have to claw your way up to D1". You started where you wanted to and so did we. Just because your school made a piss poor decision to start so low doesn't change the fact that you started football 20 years before us. Stop using that BS UCF type of logic.

and lets talk about this huge money advantage. Your CUSA contract was about $500K and our Big East contract was a bit over $3 million. Add in tourney revenue and all of that and your talking a different of about $4 million a year. Thats massive? Really?
You had 20 extra years to build up a fanbase, to build facilities and to prepare. The fact that you did very little with that advantage isnt our or anybodies fault. We were using the "massive advantage" to build some basic facilities that you built decades ago.

A fair argument is talking about what IS. USF had for a period of time more money coming in. UCF had a 20 year head start. Give USF the same amount of time and yes, I believe we will surpass where your currently at... we already have more BCS level wins and more big name wins then UCF... and you currently have the "Bigger" of any win.

LOL at this whole post.

(03-06-2015 10:25 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 07:48 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 06:50 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  First off we didn't choose to be d3. You have specific guidelines for each level of football. Btw that was different at the time we started football. Secondly you had to be allowed into d1 which we weren't at the time. 3rd the only decision that we made that impacted the big east decision was staying Indy and trying to get into the sec at the time. Remember tv dollars didn't mean as much then. Your bball program and facilities were better than ours at the time because we hadn't built the arena yet. (Remember cusa was a bball centric league at it's inception). Please don't tell me that 35m, bcs access, and recruiting advantages wasn't an advantage. Having to play d1 and d2 was not. The fanbase of a d3 program is not an advantage.

I am saying that being in the Big East wasnt much of an advantage. Talk to any of the other teams that were. Any other BCS conference and Id say yes but you have no idea how little people cared about the BE. Try being openly mocked on ESPN every week... yea, that really brings em in!

$3 million a year isnt a big gap at all and every freaking one of you know it. Cut the BS on that end. In this day and age that isnt even 10% of an athletic budget and wouldnt make a major difference.

What recruiting advantage are you talking about? We all live under the same recruiting rules.

You were in a bcs league and had a tv contract. How is that not an advantage. Also the school brands were better brands.

3.5m per year is a big deal when you make 500k. We could have done a lot with that.

We will have to agree to disagree

Ill give you that there was some advantage but its not nearly as massive as many tried to make it out. The Big East was not a respected name and in truth at times hurt since recruits saw how we were mocked.
The money was a bit more but not world beating. During that time UCF had nearly a $40 million athletic budget so the amount of difference it would have made is marginal but I will concede some advantage.
The TV coverage I cant say was huge. We were put on stations and time slots that were barely watched unless it was a game against a high profile program.... but I think you did stumble onto a good point and Ill totally concede it. Yes, playing better opponents did make us look better.

with all that said, I still dont think our time in the Big East was more of an advantage then starting a program 18 years ahead of us. Many posters say "we were in division II or III and it didnt help". The thing is, that was your decision. UCF could have moved up to division II and there were openings when they could have moved up to division I. It wasnt always closed. During that time you could have built more facilities but didn't.
Just as much as your fanbase says we squandered our time in the Big East, I tend to believe you squandered an 18 year head start.

With that said, you can respond and Ill leave it. I honestly dont think our positions are that far off and I appreciate the debate.

(03-07-2015 10:34 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 10:25 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 07:48 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(03-06-2015 06:50 PM)Knightbengal Wrote:  First off we didn't choose to be d3. You have specific guidelines for each level of football. Btw that was different at the time we started football. Secondly you had to be allowed into d1 which we weren't at the time. 3rd the only decision that we made that impacted the big east decision was staying Indy and trying to get into the sec at the time. Remember tv dollars didn't mean as much then. Your bball program and facilities were better than ours at the time because we hadn't built the arena yet. (Remember cusa was a bball centric league at it's inception). Please don't tell me that 35m, bcs access, and recruiting advantages wasn't an advantage. Having to play d1 and d2 was not. The fanbase of a d3 program is not an advantage.

I am saying that being in the Big East wasnt much of an advantage. Talk to any of the other teams that were. Any other BCS conference and Id say yes but you have no idea how little people cared about the BE. Try being openly mocked on ESPN every week... yea, that really brings em in!

$3 million a year isnt a big gap at all and every freaking one of you know it. Cut the BS on that end. In this day and age that isnt even 10% of an athletic budget and wouldnt make a major difference.

What recruiting advantage are you talking about? We all live under the same recruiting rules.

You were in a bcs league and had a tv contract. How is that not an advantage. Also the school brands were better brands.

3.5m per year is a big deal when you make 500k. We could have done a lot with that.

We will have to agree to disagree

Ill give you that there was some advantage but its not nearly as massive as many tried to make it out. The Big East was not a respected name and in truth at times hurt since recruits saw how we were mocked.
The money was a bit more but not world beating. During that time UCF had nearly a $40 million athletic budget so the amount of difference it would have made is marginal but I will concede some advantage.
The TV coverage I cant say was huge. We were put on stations and time slots that were barely watched unless it was a game against a high profile program.... but I think you did stumble onto a good point and Ill totally concede it. Yes, playing better opponents did make us look better.

with all that said, I still dont think our time in the Big East was more of an advantage then starting a program 18 years ahead of us. Many posters say "we were in division II or III and it didnt help". The thing is, that was your decision. UCF could have moved up to division II and there were openings when they could have moved up to division I. It wasnt always closed. During that time you could have built more facilities but didn't.
Just as much as your fanbase says we squandered our time in the Big East, I tend to believe you squandered an 18 year head start.

With that said, you can respond and Ill leave it. I honestly dont think our positions are that far off and I appreciate the debate.

So you'll discount that we were D-II and D-III and blame it on us that we didn't go D-I early and build up facilities earlier, because it was our decision and we squandered that time. By that logic then, it was USF's decision not to create a football team all those years (just like it was UCF's not to go D-I) and since your university was created 7 years before us, I tend to believe that you squandered a 7 year head start.

You cannot squander something that doesnt exist. You can choose to not improve an existing product which is what UCF did. The point being, when you compare "advantages" I simply wont back down to UCF fans that do not want to acknowledge that they did have a significant starting advantage and did nothing with it but in the same breath will say we had a massive advantage by getting into the Big East.

Truth be told, UCF started out 18 years before USF and we got the invite. That I think proves my point about not improving an existing product.

(03-07-2015 11:07 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  You cannot squander something that doesnt exist. You can choose to not improve an existing product which is what UCF did. The point being, when you compare "advantages" I simply wont back down to UCF fans that do not want to acknowledge that they did have a significant starting advantage and did nothing with it but in the same breath will say we had a massive advantage by getting into the Big East.

Truth be told, UCF started out 18 years before USF and we got the invite. That I think proves my point about not improving an existing product.

Regardless of starting point. We have a better football program right now and have accomplished more. Maybe in 18 years you will have accomplished something, maybe. But in those same next 18 years I'm still willing to bet we accomplish more.

(03-07-2015 11:07 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  You cannot squander something that doesnt exist. You can choose to not improve an existing product which is what UCF did. The point being, when you compare "advantages" I simply wont back down to UCF fans that do not want to acknowledge that they did have a significant starting advantage and did nothing with it but in the same breath will say we had a massive advantage by getting into the Big East.

Truth be told, UCF started out 18 years before USF and we got the invite. That I think proves my point about not improving an existing product.

USF had every opportunity to make it exist, having started before us having greater resources (your the ones that tout you endowment). Both schools had the opportunity to invest in a football program. By your own logic, the issue is with you administration not starting a football program earlier. Therefore, any arguement about us having a "head start" is just a moot point. Truth be told, USF had a 7 year head start on us and we have now caught and surpassed you.

(03-07-2015 11:07 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  You cannot squander something that doesnt exist. You can choose to not improve an existing product which is what UCF did. The point being, when you compare "advantages" I simply wont back down to UCF fans that do not want to acknowledge that they did have a significant starting advantage and did nothing with it but in the same breath will say we had a massive advantage by getting into the Big East.

Truth be told, UCF started out 18 years before USF and we got the invite. That I think proves my point about not improving an existing product.

In basketball yes. Which we didn't have a head start in. Out of curiosity were you a fan when usf joined the big east? I ask because at the time you got the nod due to your bball prowess and facilities.

None of you guys are convincing medlin he's so far down the rabbit hole he doesn't know which way is up. I admire his enthusiasm and loyalty but I have to wonder if he doesn't have a career as a publicist or a public affairs office.