Yes lol

Even though they technically aren't war films as they don't portray on the screen battles, do Triumph of the Will and Night and Fog count as they are about WWII?

Caught Defiance last weekend.

Pretty good.

(11-09-2014 12:00 AM)BEARCATDALE Wrote:  Even though they technically aren't war films as they don't portray on the screen battles, do Triumph of the Will and Night and Fog count as they are about WWII?

"Triumph of the Will" portrays events that occurred exclusively over a span of a few days in September 1934, so I don't think it can qualify as a WWII movie. Of course, most people who watch the movie now will see the image of Hitler and the Swastika-flags and probably associate the film with WWII, but that's just not the same thing, IMHO.

I have seen excerpts of Triumph of the Will and found it to be very compelling. A lot of "modern", "educated", "progressive", upper- and middle-class-type people like to think that they are immune to political fanaticism and the worship of a "strong leader". However, such people were Precisely the demographic that put Hitler in power. Triumph of the Will illustrates that reality with unsettling clarity and dramatic force. The director of that film was a German woman, whose relationship with Hitler and the Nazi movement in general remains a topic of fierce debate in sone quarters.

I've never seen Night and Fog (1955) but I've heard of it. It's a short film (30-35 min.) about the death-camps in WWII, but I don't know anything else about it. Given the subject matter, I think it may or may not be a "WWII" movie, depending on how the film is set-up.

(11-11-2014 03:10 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-09-2014 12:00 AM)BEARCATDALE Wrote:  Even though they technically aren't war films as they don't portray on the screen battles, do Triumph of the Will and Night and Fog count as they are about WWII?

"Triumph of the Will" portrays events that occurred in 1934, so I don't think it can qualify as a WWII movie. Of course, most people who watch the movie now will see the image of Hitler and the Swastika-flags and probably associate the film with WWII, but that's just not the same thing, IMHO.

I have seen excerpts of Triumph of the Will and found it to be very compelling. A lot of "modern", "educated", "progressive", upper- and middle-class-type people like to think that they are immune to political fanaticism and the worship of a "strong leader". However, such people were Precisely the demographic that put Hitler in power. Triumph of the Will illustrates that reality with unsettling clarity and dramatic force. The director of that film was a German woman, whose relationship with Hitler and the Nazi movement in general remains a topic of fierce debate in sone quarters.

I've never seen Night and Fog (1955) but I've heard of it. It's a short film (30-35 min.) about the death-camps in WWII, but I don't know anything else about it.

It's difficult to say about Leni Riefenstahl. Most actors in Germany and film producers had to swear oaths of allegiance to the Reich in order to continue working. Judging her today by standards that are alien to the pressures of a totalitarian regime are not quite fair. She did go on to do great work for National Geographic and as a free lance photographer.

The dangers of Triumph of the Will, perhaps one of the most effective propaganda films ever produced, is that as you said it appealed to reason, just without a whiff of morality. But since the amoral agenda was well disguised as an idealized vision of a future Germany and the plan to attain that vision was laid out rationally before the public, you better believe it sucked in the intelligentsia of Germany along with the working class who were promised status in the new Reich.

It's one reason now that I feel the climate is right in the U.S. for similar abuses. We have a struggling disenfranchised but not poor middle class, a growing under class, and people want short easy solutions to their complex problems. We also have extremely wealthy power brokers who want the illusion of success sold to the people.

I wouldn't classify it as a war film either, since it was the National Socialist Political Party rally at Nuremberg, but it would be a strong dose of reality to the American public to see how effective propaganda can be, and how familiar some of the techniques to producing it are.

(11-11-2014 03:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It's difficult to say about Leni Riefenstahl. Most actors in Germany and film producers had to swear oaths of allegiance to the Reich in order to continue working. Judging her today by standards that are alien to the pressures of a totalitarian regime are not quite fair. She did go on to do great work for National Geographic and as a free lance photographer.

All true, and well-said.

One of the things that is most striking to me about most media-portrayals of historic events, is how often people of the past are judged by the moral/political standards of the present. Also, the way we tend to speak as if they knew or should have known how events that are in the past for us, (but were in the "future" for them) were going to turn out. Leni Riefenstahl did not know, in 1934 or 1935, that World War II was going to happen. Edward VIII and the other members of the British royalty/aristocracy did not know, in 1936 or 1937, that London would be bombed. Charles Lindbergh did not know, in 1938 or 1941, that Auschwitz would become the site of genocide. Yet those people -- and many, many others -- are frequently condemned for not somehow, someway, anticipating those events. A wrongful conviction, IMHO.

Quote:I feel the climate is right in the U.S. for similar abuses. We have a struggling disenfranchised but not poor middle class, a growing under class, and people want short easy solutions to their complex problems. We also have extremely wealthy power brokers who want the illusion of success sold to the people.

In total agreement with all of that.

Quote:[Triumph of the Will] would be a strong dose of reality to the American public to see how effective propaganda can be, and how familiar some of the techniques to producing it are.

Would be, if anyone was allowed to see it. I doubt it has been shown to the general public anywhere in the world for more than 70 years. A few carefully-controlled screenings here and there (museums, college-campuses, etc.), but no way that ordinary people would be allowed to just happen by and watch it on a Saturday afternoon.

(11-11-2014 03:10 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  I have seen excerpts of Triumph of the Will and found it to be very compelling. A lot of "modern", "educated", "progressive", upper- and middle-class-type people like to think that they are immune to political fanaticism and the worship of a "strong leader". However, such people were Precisely the demographic that put Hitler in power. Triumph of the Will illustrates that reality with unsettling clarity and dramatic force. The director of that film was a German woman, whose relationship with Hitler and the Nazi movement in general remains a topic of fierce debate in sone quarters.

I remember reading about this in high school. A teacher essentially created an arm of the Hitler Youth after his class insisted it could never happen here.

Quote:It is the ultimate classroom mind-game. A charismatic teacher suddenly introduces strict discipline into his lessons and, far from rebelling, the students embrace it with gusto. Within a week, they have devised a uniform, insignia, salute and banners, and eagerly spy on and intimidate schoolmates. The movement swells to more than 200 members who, on the last day, flock to a rally. . . .

At the end of the week - in life and in the film - the teacher announces a new national political party, with a new leader. Only then is the hoax revealed. "We were in a state of shock; there were kids crying," recalls ex-pupil Mark Hancock. "He wound that class up as tight as a drum."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/...state.html[/quote]

For me: Patton is the best one. I love The Dirty Dozen for the cast of actors...even though it was pure fiction.

(11-15-2014 02:29 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  For me: Patton is the best one. I love The Dirty Dozen for the cast of actors...even though it was pure fiction.

I hear the name and the opening song starts to play in my head.

I'm not scrolling through all this again. Surely someone has mentioned the Great Escape.

(11-16-2014 10:45 PM)Smaug Wrote:  I'm not scrolling through all this again. Surely someone has mentioned the Great Escape.

In the OP.

111 posts in, and nobody has mentioned The Hunt for Red October yet?

(11-19-2014 12:49 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  111 posts in, and nobody has mentioned The Hunt for Red October yet?

It is a cold war movie, but not a shooting war movie. For that matter the comedy "The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming" is another example of a decent cold war movie. Fail Safe, Dr. Strangelove, most James Bond movies all fall into a similar genre. Perhaps of all of the cold war movies "On the Beach" is the most jarring. Red October would be the most entertaining though.

(11-19-2014 12:49 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  111 posts in, and nobody has mentioned The Hunt for Red October yet?

The book was better.

The movie never went into enough detail about why Ramius wanted to defect.

I watched Fury the other day, I thought it was pretty good. It would not be on my top ten list, but I enjoyed it.

Memphis Belle , Empire of the Sun were pretty good ones, not sure if anyone mentioned them.

I always liked (funny) Heartbreak Ridge, but it is not really a war movie.

The lost Battalion. Granted a TV movie but still pretty good.

(07-05-2015 07:09 PM)IAH Wrote:  I watched Fury the other day, I thought it was pretty good. It would not be on my top ten list, but I enjoyed it.

Memphis Belle , Empire of the Sun were pretty good ones, not sure if anyone mentioned them.

I always liked (funny) Heartbreak Ridge, but it is not really a war movie.

I haven't heard anything bad about Fury and I must say I am intrigued after watching many of the highlight clips. I guess I have a soft spot for tank warfare. I'll wait to watch it on DirecTV or on used blue ray.

Saving Private Ryan is still the best War themed film that I will recommend..

Platoon.

(06-08-2014 07:39 AM)Smaug Wrote:  A couple I haven't seen listed that I really enjoyed, All Quiet on the Western Front (I think a remake is in the works) and Enemy at the Gate

Great story and, well, Rachel Weisz.

I'll 2nd those two.