(10-27-2014 05:57 AM)Da.Owl Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 09:39 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  What's not to like so far? Excellent recruiting, instilling a team identity and work ethic, visiting with the colleges and trying to excite the student body.

He got me to buy a season ticket without even seeing a practice

I did the same, and I'm likely to make it down for just one game (the season opener) all season.

(10-26-2014 03:06 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  I always thought Braun's recruiting prowess was somewhat overblown. He got a handful of prospects who were highly touted, but also brought in a bunch who really weren't.

Ultimately, recruiting is only a means to an end. For Braun, retention was such a severe problem that recruiting became a moot point.

Yes, but we extended Braun based on the recruiting. At the time of the extension, he had one quality win.

Enthusiasm for Rhoades is great, and no reason to doubt that the 2015 commits will sign come November. But the 2016's are much less secure, and our roster this fall will be (among) the least talented in Division 1.

If we can steal a few wins against D1 teams and not lose to the NAIA teams, that will be a good second step.

(10-27-2014 09:28 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 03:06 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  I always thought Braun's recruiting prowess was somewhat overblown. He got a handful of prospects who were highly touted, but also brought in a bunch who really weren't.

Ultimately, recruiting is only a means to an end. For Braun, retention was such a severe problem that recruiting became a moot point.

Yes, but we extended Braun based on the recruiting. At the time of the extension, he had one quality win.

Enthusiasm for Rhoades is great, and no reason to doubt that the 2015 commits will sign come November. But the 2016's are much less secure, and our roster this fall will be (among) the least talented in Division 1.

If we can steal a few wins against D1 teams and not lose to the NAIA teams, that will be a good second step.

Agreed-- this comng season is going to be a big-time struggle. However, recognizing that, this is why we need to show Coach Rhoades and the team our support for what will no doubt be a trying season given the sparcity of talent. So long as the effort is there, I think we'll steal a few games, and set the stage for the start of the turnaround in 2015 - '16.

(10-27-2014 09:28 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 03:06 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  I always thought Braun's recruiting prowess was somewhat overblown. He got a handful of prospects who were highly touted, but also brought in a bunch who really weren't.

Ultimately, recruiting is only a means to an end. For Braun, retention was such a severe problem that recruiting became a moot point.

Yes, but we extended Braun based on the recruiting. At the time of the extension, he had one quality win.

Enthusiasm for Rhoades is great, and no reason to doubt that the 2015 commits will sign come November. But the 2016's are much less secure, and our roster this fall will be (among) the least talented in Division 1.

If we can steal a few wins against D1 teams and not lose to the NAIA teams, that will be a good second step.

I would point out that we lost 8 games last year by 5 points or less (including at College Station) so I would expect the better conditioning would be a big help. There were even more games (than those 8) that we were in contention for 35 minutes but died down the stretch. Also I think the style of play will help. The team last year actually played pretty hard defensively but that will pale in comparison to what I hope to see this year.

(10-27-2014 09:59 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 09:28 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(10-26-2014 03:06 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  I always thought Braun's recruiting prowess was somewhat overblown. He got a handful of prospects who were highly touted, but also brought in a bunch who really weren't.

Ultimately, recruiting is only a means to an end. For Braun, retention was such a severe problem that recruiting became a moot point.

Yes, but we extended Braun based on the recruiting. At the time of the extension, he had one quality win.

Enthusiasm for Rhoades is great, and no reason to doubt that the 2015 commits will sign come November. But the 2016's are much less secure, and our roster this fall will be (among) the least talented in Division 1.

If we can steal a few wins against D1 teams and not lose to the NAIA teams, that will be a good second step.

I would point out that we lost 8 games last year by 5 points or less (including at College Station) so I would expect the better conditioning would be a big help. There were even more games (than those 8) that we were in contention for 35 minutes but died down the stretch. Also I think the style of play will help. The team last year actually played pretty hard defensively but that will pale in comparison to what I hope to see this year.

That's been my real worry- last year's squad always seemed to have 35 good minutes in them, with a deliberately slow pace. It would appear that our conditioning would be better, but will it be better enough to get through a more intense 40 minutes? I certainly hope so, but let's play at least one game before we anoint Coach as the new Messiah.

(10-27-2014 09:59 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  I would point out that we lost 8 games last year by 5 points or less (including at College Station) so I would expect the better conditioning would be a big help. There were even more games (than those 8) that we were in contention for 35 minutes but died down the stretch. Also I think the style of play will help. The team last year actually played pretty hard defensively but that will pale in comparison to what I hope to see this year.

I really have no idea what to expect from this year's men's basketball team in terms of W/L. I know what I expect in terms of effort. But the team lost their best player (Obi). Meanwhile, Denzel Davis returns from injury, Andrew Drone might be transformed physically, and there are 6 players listed as true freshman on the roster (Bishop Mench, Nate Pollard, Maurice Rivers, Jordan Reed, JT Trauber, and Oliver Xu). Plus the team has some added some leadership with graduate student Van Green.

Anyone know anything about Oliver Xu? I don't remember seeing his name mentioned before (entirely possible I just missed it). Some of the notes on his official bio are pretty intriguing.

I would say Max Guercy was the best player last year.

(10-27-2014 10:44 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  I would say Max Guercy was the best player last year.

I actually thought about Max Guercy as I was typing that line. I think I only watched a couple games on TV, plus the game @Tulane, so I will bow to your superior knowledge on the matter. Regardless, Obi was quite good and losing him to Duke makes predicting this year's W/L record that much tougher. The team could win 7 games and I wouldn't be shocked. They could win 17 and I wouldn't be shocked. I just have no idea.

I certainly don't think it's too early to celebrate that our 2016 class is ranked 11th in the country: http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketb...amRankings

(10-27-2014 11:14 AM)07owl Wrote:  I certainly don't think it's too early to celebrate that our 2016 class is ranked 11th in the country: http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketb...amRankings

dude turned down offers from Arizona, Texas, etc. for RICE! How cool is that!

Even the 2015 class is now ranked 63rd just behind Iowa, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Utah.

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Basketb...amRankings

(10-27-2014 11:21 AM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 11:14 AM)07owl Wrote:  I certainly don't think it's too early to celebrate that our 2016 class is ranked 11th in the country: http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketb...amRankings

dude turned down offers from Arizona, Texas, etc. for RICE! How cool is that!

How cool?? Frankly, I'm in shock

(10-27-2014 11:21 AM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 11:14 AM)07owl Wrote:  I certainly don't think it's too early to celebrate that our 2016 class is ranked 11th in the country: http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketb...amRankings

dude turned down offers from Arizona, Texas, etc. for RICE! How cool is that!

He hasn't really turned it down until he signs a piece of paper in the fall of 2015.

I think the 2016 commitments (not all but certainly some) are somewhat speculative until and unless we prove to be closer to D-1 than to D-3 in the upcoming season. Hint--I'm a bit worried.

I think 8 or fewer wins is a real possibility. So I hope Coach R. has really sought out guys who want to build something and have a four year frame of reference. We haven't had a guy with than attitude and talent to accompany it since Tamir Jackson. And if we are honest about our aspirations and what they take, Tamir would need to be more a role player than a foundation piece.

(10-27-2014 04:20 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 11:21 AM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 11:14 AM)07owl Wrote:  I certainly don't think it's too early to celebrate that our 2016 class is ranked 11th in the country: http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketb...amRankings

dude turned down offers from Arizona, Texas, etc. for RICE! How cool is that!

He hasn't really turned it down until he signs a piece of paper in the fall of 2015.

I think the 2016 commitments (not all but certainly some) are somewhat speculative until and unless we prove to be closer to D-1 than to D-3 in the upcoming season. Hint--I'm a bit worried.

I think 8 or fewer wins is a real possibility. So I hope Coach R. has really sought out guys who want to build something and have a four year frame of reference. We haven't had a guy with than attitude and talent to accompany it since Tamir Jackson. And if we are honest about our aspirations and what they take, Tamir would need to be more a role player than a foundation piece.

I don't think those 2016 commits are going make a final decision based on this coming year's W - L record. I'm sure Coach Rhoades has set expectations, and these recruits recognize the lack of talent and depth on this year's roster (largely inheretted by Rhoades), and that this is but Year 1 in what is probably being sold as a 3 - 4 year rebuilding process. Much like Bailiff did with last year's 5th year Senior-laden class, Rhoades is likely selling these recruits on style of play and to be a part of building the basketball program at Rice.

(10-27-2014 10:44 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  I would say Max Guercy was the best player last year.

+1000!

I don't think Obi would have made it through boot camp.

(10-27-2014 04:24 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I'm sure Coach Rhoades has set expectations, and these recruits recognize the lack of talent and depth on this year's roster (largely inheretted by Rhoades), and that this is but Year 1 in what is probably being sold as a 3 - 4 year rebuilding process. Much like Bailiff did with last year's 5th year Senior-laden class, Rhoades is likely selling these recruits on style of play and to be a part of building the basketball program at Rice.

I agree with you; really it is the only plausible way to imagine being successful.

You can win a lot of games--and get to the NCAA tournament--with players who have almost no shot of being NBA players. I have to believe the secret is to recruit the most talented of those guys who also happen to value education, and then coach the heck out of them.

I think this years team will be lucky to win 10 games unless we are very surprised with the performance of injury redshirt Denzel Davis and somehow senior/grad student transfer Van Green has hoops and leadership skills that did not seem to be showcased at Columbia before he sat for the last 2 years. I am encouraged with the recruiting for 2015 and 2016 and with the overall direction of the program. Andrew Drone has pretty soft hands for a post and his physical transformation has been impressive, I hope that his speed/and quickness have improved commensurately. It would also be great if Nate Pollard can earn quality minutes this year. I have not seen the team practice yet for 2014 but hope to do so soon.

While many players from last years team have graduated or transferred, remember that this team fell in the bottom 7% in the nation for steals and blocks (327 of 351 teams) and was the 8th worst in the nation for Free Throw attempts . I am hoping that the change in playing style being touted by Coach Rhodes will make a significant positive difference in forcing turnovers, increasing Rice FT attempts and steals. Real improvements in those areas will translates into more wins on the scoreboard.

While I am as disappointed with Mr. Obi transferring as the rest of this board, my guess is that he would have not only "made it through boot camp" he would have become a quality anchor and best player for this team for the next few years, similar to Michael Harris.

(10-27-2014 04:20 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 11:21 AM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  

(10-27-2014 11:14 AM)07owl Wrote:  I certainly don't think it's too early to celebrate that our 2016 class is ranked 11th in the country: http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketb...amRankings

dude turned down offers from Arizona, Texas, etc. for RICE! How cool is that!

He hasn't really turned it down until he signs a piece of paper in the fall of 2015.

I think the 2016 commitments (not all but certainly some) are somewhat speculative until and unless we prove to be closer to D-1 than to D-3 in the upcoming season. Hint--I'm a bit worried.

I think 8 or fewer wins is a real possibility. So I hope Coach R. has really sought out guys who want to build something and have a four year frame of reference. We haven't had a guy with than attitude and talent to accompany it since Tamir Jackson. And if we are honest about our aspirations and what they take, Tamir would need to be more a role player than a foundation piece.

Can I hand over my "turd in the punchbowl title, yet?"

(10-27-2014 04:24 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  I don't think those 2016 commits are going make a final decision based on this coming year's W - L record. I'm sure Coach Rhoades has set expectations, and these recruits recognize the lack of talent and depth on this year's roster (largely inheretted by Rhoades), and that this is but Year 1 in what is probably being sold as a 3 - 4 year rebuilding process. Much like Bailiff did with last year's 5th year Senior-laden class, Rhoades is likely selling these recruits on style of play and to be a part of building the basketball program at Rice.

I don't think that Rice or anyone else has the luxury of a 3-4 year rebuilding process in NCAA Basketball. NCAA Basketball is just different than other sports. Even if players have every intention of staying for four years when they sign, if they are good, they will get recruited by other schools (with impunity).

edit: I agree that they may give a pass on 2014-15 results, but I don't expect patience beyond that.

(10-28-2014 04:08 PM)I45owl Wrote:  Can I hand over my "turd in the punchbowl title, yet?"

Oh, nevermind...