(09-17-2014 11:12 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  The kid just walks around with impunity. Yelling stuff like that while you know you're in a fishbowl and being investigated for rape, he's not smart and/or doesn't care. Doesn't matter though they'll only slap his wrist. When the crab legs thing came to light, his parents were mad at FSU for not having someone with him at all times to prevent him from doing stuff like that. So that's how he was raised, without any personal responsibility.

Great point about the parents, and about walking around with impunity. That's a great word for him. And it is because he's been coddled when he misbehaves by everyone around him.

(09-17-2014 04:32 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  He is a Heisman Trophy winner. Kids all across the country idolize him. He represents Florida State. I find it absolutely hilarious that FSU has shown themselves to be such cowards. They should have just told everyone to F off themselves and not even suspend him.

FSU has a weird, bifurcated culture. On one hand, and believe this or not, there is a pretty strong strain of elitism/snobbery at FSU. Politically, FSU aspires to be, and fancies itself as already being, a kind of North Carolina, an oasis of northern sophistication and moderate progressivism in a sea of backwoods deep-south rednecks. And academically, its culture appreciates musicians and poets more than accountants and engineers.

And yet on the other hand, NO SCHOOL, not even Alabama, has fans and alumni that want to win college football games any more than FSU's community does. Unlike even at Florida, football literally put FSU on the map. They thirst not only for wins, but national titles. And if you can deliver that, the community is your oyster. That's what accounts for their relatively soft attendance and fickle fan base: When FSU is "losing", which by their standards means anything less than say 10-2 or 11-1, the fans melt away because they can't bear to watch a team that isn't a quasi-juggernaut.

That's the yin-yang at work here on their campus, and obviously, so far, the football culture has prevailed big-time.

(09-17-2014 12:13 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  When people talk about the "good old days," this is what they're referring to. Now if you're remotely semi-famous you can't even make a joke to your friends without it ending up all over the internet and the PC crowd taking away your livlihood.

Really Bearcat? Do you think what is being alleged in this situation is anything analogous "making a joke to your friends"?? IMO, the reality is is that if an "ordinary student" did what Winston is alleged to have done in this situation, the punishment would likely be far more severe.

There is a phrase from the "good old days" that I think applies here: "to whom much is given...much is expected".

IMO, part of the reason why these athletes get into trouble is because, all too often, they are brought up in a climate where they do NOT face consequences for bad behavior. This does nobody any good, not the least the athletes themselves.

IMO, this has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with common decency.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

From what I gathered from the FSU students on Twitter is that Winston was with a group of guys who were free style rapping out in the picnic area. As each guy started their verse they jumped up on top of the table and where cheered on by not only the guys in the group but a growing population of students that started to gather around that one particular table. I student athlete referred to on Twitter and Facebook as "Makko" jumped up and started his particular verse. While rapping Winston jumped on top the table, pushed this "Makko" guy to the side and yelled the expletives. From everything I've seen via social media a large majority of the students laughed at his antics and even cheered him on. Also from what I gathered from a few tweets is that what Winston said was elementary compared to some words the guys used during the freestyle raps.

I'm not coming down either way but from everything I've seen that is what occurred

(09-18-2014 11:02 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 12:13 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  When people talk about the "good old days," this is what they're referring to. Now if you're remotely semi-famous you can't even make a joke to your friends without it ending up all over the internet and the PC crowd taking away your livlihood.

Really Bearcat? Do you think what is being alleged in this situation is anything analogous "making a joke to your friends"?? IMO, the reality is is that if an "ordinary student" did what Winston is alleged to have done in this situation, the punishment would likely be far more severe.

There is a phrase from the "good old days" that I think applies here: "to whom much is given...much is expected".

IMO, part of the reason why these athletes get into trouble is because, all too often, they are brought up in a climate where they do NOT face consequences for bad behavior. This does nobody any good, not the least the athletes themselves.

IMO, this has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with common decency.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

From what I gathered from the FSU students on Twitter is that Winston was with a group of guys who were free style rapping out in the picnic area. As each guy started their verse they jumped up on top of the table and where cheered on by not only the guys in the group but a growing population of students that started to gather around that one particular table. I student athlete referred to on Twitter and Facebook as "Makko" jumped up and started his particular verse. While rapping Winston jumped on top the table, pushed this "Makko" guy to the side and yelled the expletives. From everything I've seen via social media a large majority of the students laughed at his antics and even cheered him on. Also from what I gathered from a few tweets is that what Winston said was elementary compared to some words the guys used during the freestyle raps.

I'm not coming down either way but from everything I've seen that is what occurred

Following the crowd; that's always good.

(09-17-2014 05:35 PM)JRsec Wrote:  This whole issue is going to end in only one of two ways. Winston will be declared innocent of all matters pertaining to his reprehensible and quite publicly bad behavior from date rape, to shoplifting, to thinking he is above the law enough to stand in a public center of the University and make a spectacle of himself. Or, he is going to wind up going down for all that he has done. The half game suspension means that if he goes down he'll be dragging some administrators with him. Because a half game suspension in light of all his past transgressions means that those same administrators lack the fortitude to do what is not profitable and deal with him.

Since the Title IX investigation is outside the scope of F.S.U.'s ability to control issues I think his days at F.S.U. are numbered. But that is just my opinion.

I suspect that FSU is just praying that the Title IX investigation will be thorough enough that it will take until mid-January to complete it. By then I believe that Winston's days at FSU will be at an end regardless of the findings of that investigation, and he will be somebody else's PR problem.

At some point, maybe already, his actions are going to make an NFL GM with the first or second draft choice, wonder if taking Jameis is worth the gamble. Especially in today's uber-sensitive NFL.

(09-18-2014 01:53 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  At some point, maybe already, his actions are going to make an NFL GM with the first or second draft choice, wonder if taking Jameis is worth the gamble. Especially in today's uber-sensitive NFL.

Yeah, I'm willing to bet his actual draft position makes the Johnny Football free-fall down the draft board look tame in comparison.

(09-18-2014 05:17 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 01:53 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  At some point, maybe already, his actions are going to make an NFL GM with the first or second draft choice, wonder if taking Jameis is worth the gamble. Especially in today's uber-sensitive NFL.

Yeah, I'm willing to bet his actual draft position makes the Johnny Football free-fall down the draft board look tame in comparison.

Especially in this climate, where the Vikings and Panthers are having to pay Peterson and Hardy (respectively) more than $10 million each this year for sitting at home. Character will never be a more important consideration than in this year's draft.

(09-18-2014 11:20 AM)Tigeer Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 11:02 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 12:13 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  When people talk about the "good old days," this is what they're referring to. Now if you're remotely semi-famous you can't even make a joke to your friends without it ending up all over the internet and the PC crowd taking away your livlihood.

Really Bearcat? Do you think what is being alleged in this situation is anything analogous "making a joke to your friends"?? IMO, the reality is is that if an "ordinary student" did what Winston is alleged to have done in this situation, the punishment would likely be far more severe.

There is a phrase from the "good old days" that I think applies here: "to whom much is given...much is expected".

IMO, part of the reason why these athletes get into trouble is because, all too often, they are brought up in a climate where they do NOT face consequences for bad behavior. This does nobody any good, not the least the athletes themselves.

IMO, this has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with common decency.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

From what I gathered from the FSU students on Twitter is that Winston was with a group of guys who were free style rapping out in the picnic area. As each guy started their verse they jumped up on top of the table and where cheered on by not only the guys in the group but a growing population of students that started to gather around that one particular table. I student athlete referred to on Twitter and Facebook as "Makko" jumped up and started his particular verse. While rapping Winston jumped on top the table, pushed this "Makko" guy to the side and yelled the expletives. From everything I've seen via social media a large majority of the students laughed at his antics and even cheered him on. Also from what I gathered from a few tweets is that what Winston said was elementary compared to some words the guys used during the freestyle raps.

I'm not coming down either way but from everything I've seen that is what occurred

Following the crowd; that's always good.

Following the wrong crowd. History repeats itself in very quick fashion.

It should be obvious to the Heisman Voters that they need a new rule that Freshmen are not eligible for the Trophy. Manzel was the first ever, Winston was the second.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. This is no coincidence, this is back to back anecdotal evidence that these boys are not matured enough to handle the spotlight that is going to shine upon them.

Perhaps this wasn't that big of a deal for any ole student to do but Winston is a Heisman Trophy candidate who is going to want to pursue a career in the NFL. As we are seeing happen now, the culture is changing in the NFL. If FSU is going to properly prepare him for his future they need to instill in him the understanding of how he is no ordinary kid anymore. He cant just run around with the entourage boys doing what they do.

They aren't doing him any favors with this half game suspension. They aren't in the business of educating him, they are in the business of exploiting him.

(09-18-2014 07:48 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  And yet on the other hand, NO SCHOOL, not even Alabama, has fans and alumni that want to win college football games any more than FSU's community does.

(09-18-2014 06:41 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 11:20 AM)Tigeer Wrote:  

(09-18-2014 11:02 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 12:13 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  When people talk about the "good old days," this is what they're referring to. Now if you're remotely semi-famous you can't even make a joke to your friends without it ending up all over the internet and the PC crowd taking away your livlihood.

Really Bearcat? Do you think what is being alleged in this situation is anything analogous "making a joke to your friends"?? IMO, the reality is is that if an "ordinary student" did what Winston is alleged to have done in this situation, the punishment would likely be far more severe.

There is a phrase from the "good old days" that I think applies here: "to whom much is given...much is expected".

IMO, part of the reason why these athletes get into trouble is because, all too often, they are brought up in a climate where they do NOT face consequences for bad behavior. This does nobody any good, not the least the athletes themselves.

IMO, this has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with common decency.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

From what I gathered from the FSU students on Twitter is that Winston was with a group of guys who were free style rapping out in the picnic area. As each guy started their verse they jumped up on top of the table and where cheered on by not only the guys in the group but a growing population of students that started to gather around that one particular table. I student athlete referred to on Twitter and Facebook as "Makko" jumped up and started his particular verse. While rapping Winston jumped on top the table, pushed this "Makko" guy to the side and yelled the expletives. From everything I've seen via social media a large majority of the students laughed at his antics and even cheered him on. Also from what I gathered from a few tweets is that what Winston said was elementary compared to some words the guys used during the freestyle raps.

I'm not coming down either way but from everything I've seen that is what occurred

Following the crowd; that's always good.

Following the wrong crowd. History repeats itself in very quick fashion.

It should be obvious to the Heisman Voters that they need a new rule that Freshmen are not eligible for the Trophy. Manzel was the first ever, Winston was the second.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. This is no coincidence, this is back to back anecdotal evidence that these boys are not matured enough to handle the spotlight that is going to shine upon them.

Perhaps this wasn't that big of a deal for any ole student to do but Winston is a Heisman Trophy candidate who is going to want to pursue a career in the NFL. As we are seeing happen now, the culture is changing in the NFL. If FSU is going to properly prepare him for his future they need to instill in him the understanding of how he is no ordinary kid anymore. He cant just run around with the entourage boys doing what they do.

They aren't doing him any favors with this half game suspension. They aren't in the business of educating him, they are in the business of exploiting him.

Agree with everything you say and add that they have positioned him to be a possible hero this weekend.

If he continues to behave the way he does, he will not be a NFL success story long term.

(09-17-2014 12:13 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  When people talk about the "good old days," this is what they're referring to. Now if you're remotely semi-famous you can't even make a joke to your friends without it ending up all over the internet and the PC crowd taking away your livlihood.

Really Bearcat? Do you think what is being alleged in this situation is anything analogous "making a joke to your friends"?? IMO, the reality is is that if an "ordinary student" did what Winston is alleged to have done in this situation, the punishment would likely be far more severe.

There is a phrase from the "good old days" that I think applies here: "to whom much is given...much is expected".

IMO, part of the reason why these athletes get into trouble is because, all too often, they are brought up in a climate where they do NOT face consequences for bad behavior. This does nobody any good, not the least the athletes themselves.

IMO, this has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with common decency.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

To be fair lets be honest.

College guys and I mean most college guys say much worse thing in their common time.

I don't see us punishing frat boys for the stupid things they do and say. I'm not saying what Winston was and has been doing is not wrong. I'm saying if your famous you can walk outside and say I'm taking a dump and someone would take it the wrong way.

(09-19-2014 03:20 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 12:13 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  When people talk about the "good old days," this is what they're referring to. Now if you're remotely semi-famous you can't even make a joke to your friends without it ending up all over the internet and the PC crowd taking away your livlihood.

Really Bearcat? Do you think what is being alleged in this situation is anything analogous "making a joke to your friends"?? IMO, the reality is is that if an "ordinary student" did what Winston is alleged to have done in this situation, the punishment would likely be far more severe.

There is a phrase from the "good old days" that I think applies here: "to whom much is given...much is expected".

IMO, part of the reason why these athletes get into trouble is because, all too often, they are brought up in a climate where they do NOT face consequences for bad behavior. This does nobody any good, not the least the athletes themselves.

IMO, this has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with common decency.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

To be fair lets be honest.

College guys and I mean most college guys say much worse thing in their common time.

I don't see us punishing frat boys for the stupid things they do and say. I'm not saying what Winston was and has been doing is not wrong. I'm saying if your famous you can walk outside and say I'm taking a dump and someone would take it the wrong way.

I'm afraid you may be missing the point, trojan. We should be punishing frat boys for those things, and for many of the same reasons we should punish athletes. In large measure, those frat boys are a product of a culture that excuses their behavior because they come from privilege.

But most of those kids derive their privileged status from the success of their parents. With athletes, we like to think they have at least earned the privileges they receive. But they need to earn that privilege every day.

Why do we have college sports in the first place? Or high school sports for that matter? If one of the primary purposes of college sports is to enhance the educational mission for the players, then we have to hold them to a higher standard. Math and Chemistry classes provide some education, and that may be enough for some students. But sports are supposed to be developing leaders, not followers. Quarterbacks are supposed to be leaders most of all. In Winston's case, it is clear that he has not learned any of the lessons we should be teaching him. Just as clear, he doesn't care about that either.

What FSU continues to teach him is that's OK. And it isn't OK.

@McMurphyESPN: FSU announces Jameis Winston will not play in entire game vs. Clemson

Here's a title for the entire 2014 football season:

"The Crab Leg Incident"

(09-19-2014 10:18 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  @McMurphyESPN: FSU announces Jameis Winston will not play in entire game vs. Clemson

They must have saw the College Scoreboard show poll that was up before the UConn vs USF game. Was like 85% of the voters that said he shouldn't play the whole game.

I said earlier in the thread that it was very possible they would change their mind.

I just love how these people that think of themselves as so damn smart, keep screwing up and messing up their analysis of how their actions will be perceived.

(09-19-2014 04:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(09-19-2014 03:20 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 12:13 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(09-17-2014 11:56 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  When people talk about the "good old days," this is what they're referring to. Now if you're remotely semi-famous you can't even make a joke to your friends without it ending up all over the internet and the PC crowd taking away your livlihood.

Really Bearcat? Do you think what is being alleged in this situation is anything analogous "making a joke to your friends"?? IMO, the reality is is that if an "ordinary student" did what Winston is alleged to have done in this situation, the punishment would likely be far more severe.

There is a phrase from the "good old days" that I think applies here: "to whom much is given...much is expected".

IMO, part of the reason why these athletes get into trouble is because, all too often, they are brought up in a
climate where they do NOT face consequences for bad behavior. This does nobody any good, not the least the athletes themselves.

IMO, this has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with common decency.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

To be fair lets be honest.

College guys and I mean most college guys say much worse thing in their common time.

I don't see us punishing frat boys for the stupid things they do and say. I'm not saying what Winston was and has been doing is not wrong. I'm saying if your famous you can walk outside and say I'm taking a dump and someone would take it the wrong way.

I'm afraid you may be missing the point, trojan. We should be punishing frat boys for those things, and for many of the same reasons we should punish athletes. In large measure, those frat boys are a product of a culture that excuses their behavior because they come from privilege.

But most of those kids derive their privileged status from the success of their parents. With athletes, we like to think they have at least earned the privileges they receive. But they need to earn that privilege every day.

Why do we have college sports in the first place? Or high school sports for that matter? If one of the primary purposes of college sports is to enhance the educational mission for the players, then we have to hold them to a higher standard. Math and Chemistry classes provide some education, and that may be enough for some students. But sports are supposed to be developing leaders, not followers. Quarterbacks are supposed to be leaders most of all. In Winston's case, it is clear that he has not learned any of the lessons we should be teaching him. Just as clear, he doesn't care about that either.

What FSU continues to teach him is that's OK. And it isn't OK.

It's not kids of privilege. It's all kids. Walk by them in a mall. The f-bombs fall like rain. And it's not just kids. We all heard adults dropping f-bombs on the phone as they walk down the aisles at a Target as if nobody else can hear them. Heck, we all go football games--you have all heard it. George Carlins 7 words you can't say on TV is down to one from what I can tell after watching TV. Lee Corso dropped an F-bomb on Game Day. Kids blast rap music with lyrics twice as bad as anything Winston said. It is what it is. Society has changed.

The kid thought he was being funny. He wasnt funny and I'm not impressed, but I wouldn't punish him for it. A bad sense of humor isnt against the law. On the other hand, stealing is. I'd have disciplined the heck out of him for the crab incident.

I posted the link in the thread on the ACC board but what Winston did is indeed against the law in Florida. I knew that he could have been charged with disorderly conduct here in SC so I checked. The way the law is written in Florida he could have been charged there too.

(09-20-2014 12:15 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  I posted the link in the thread on the ACC board but what Winston did is indeed against the law in Florida. I knew that he could have been charged with disorderly conduct here in SC so I checked. The way the law is written in Florida he could have been charged there too.

Someone else on the ACC board said that the FSU President is an interim and was told she wouldn't be in the running for the permanent position and so Winston may not play all year?

Load of BS?

things get real interesting if Clemson can beat FSU. FSU would be in a lot of trouble- as they would need Clemson to lose 2 conference games for FSU to be divisional champions. That's kind of tough to see.