(08-01-2014 11:48 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 11:36 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Bringing those people here is downright stupid.

The Liberian government told them not to.

Putting on my tinfoil hat...

Several of the Ebola treatments / vaccinations being developed can be administered post infection. I suspect that these two folks are going to be test subjects.

But yes... It is stupid..

It sure sounded like it. I don't think that's tin foil hat worthy.

(08-01-2014 11:36 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Bringing those people here is downright stupid.

The Liberian government told them not to.

Our people do not even listen to each other.

The Med Evac flights alone may kill them.

(08-01-2014 11:36 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Bringing those people here is downright stupid.

The Liberian government told them not to.

Lol...don't you know that we're smarter than everyone else in the world, and every person who's ever existed? Including our founding fathers, Einstein and Jesus.

As the healthcare woman on the today show said "it is safe, it is smart, it is prudent and it does not put people at risk. Right now there's to Americans, they're fluctuating in how they're doing. Grave, but serious. The healthcare system in Liberia is rudimentary at best. So if you can transport someone to a high-tech, FABULOUS, medical facility where they are isolated from the general population, in a really contained room."

Does anyone else see some of the problems here?

1. This lady doesn't know that grave and serious are the same thing. I'll let that slide. She referred to the facilities as fabulous. I will not let that slide.

2. As far as we know, there is no cure. Put these people in a sterile environment, let them drink lots of fluids and rest. Why put them on a plane to do the same thing?

3. This doesn't put people at risk, it's not airborne, etc. Okay- I'll buy that...but the guy on the right of this picture is supposedly the doctor who contracted the virus. I've yet to see anyone say how he got it.


Pretty scary looking. That's not the point though. The point is, it's not airborne and you can only get it through bodily fluids. Then what's with the vacuumed air, bubbles, etc? I do realize that they don't want to take chances....but if they're so sure that it won't spread then what's the risk? How did he get it when he took all of the universally accepted healthcare precautions?

It's like hearing your country is about to be invaded while the military plays D from an underground bunker. Then they tell you "it's fine, just stay in your houses...we'll take care of this...no need to worry, we'll be in this bunker."

Live stream of doctor quarantined in his home in Tennessee.

http://abcnews.go.com/live?stream=1

Btw the two in Liberia will not be flown back until early next week.

It's not airborne like the flu by if you sneeze you kick out a lot of little droplets of ffluid in which the virus will do just fine..

The Liberians are concerned it had mutated and could be airborne since it has potentially jumped containment.

How did we get Kaduz, killer bees, fire ants, Asian carp, because we are so smart?

No one can say what containment measures are effective from everything being reported from the region affected this outbreak is different from the one's in the past. It has crossed typical containment methods which makes Liberian officials concerned it is now possible to pass this strain as airborne.

One things for sure, bringing an active infection into the country increases the risk of a US outbreak due to containment issue from 0 to ???.

No worries, e bola doesn't infect conservatives because they're so damn tough. Lol

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Consertives just have a problem with things that are evil, that they can't shoot.

Quarantine and containment are not the same things nor do they refer to the same measures.

This is what I don't get. We keep hearing it has to come from bodily fluids- blood, diarrhea, maybe mucous (but I'd thought I'd heard not very likely) and not from simple contact or being in the same room etc.

So, WTF? Knowing the risks, obviously, being educated and health care practitioners, how the hell did these two or more come down with it?

sounds to me like this is yet another "it's not what we think we know, it's that we don't know what we don't know" situation.

If don't know how to cure this, I'd suggest we don't have half a friggin clue as to what we're even dealing with here.

Good times, we've got more schit coming over these borders, both invited and uninvited, I guess we'll get to see this shiny, new health insurance scheme work it's magic in short order.

We are, as a society, chronically stupid. over. and over. and over again.

(08-01-2014 05:51 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  This is what I don't get. We keep hearing it has to come from bodily fluids- blood, diarrhea, maybe mucous (but I'd thought I'd heard not very likely) and not from simple contact or being in the same room etc.

So, WTF? Knowing the risks, obviously, being educated and health care practitioners, how the hell did these two or more come down with it?

sounds to me like this is yet another "it's not what we think we know, it's that we don't know what we don't know" situation.

If don't know how to cure this, I'd suggest we don't have half a friggin clue as to what we're even dealing with here.

Good times, we've got more schit coming over these borders, both invited and uninvited, I guess we'll get to see this shiny, new health insurance scheme work it's magic in short order.

We are, as a society, chronically stupid. over. and over. and over again.

Ditto.

What are the odds of two trained medical professionals who understand what SHOULD be necessary to prevent getting the disease, getting the disease? Either some of those working around them didn't follow the right procedures (then why didn't they get it too?) or this virus has mutated and a new transmission path has opened due to the mutation.

Interesting timing NYC conducts largest test ever for preparedness for bioterrorism attack. I also read the CDC has the authority to detain and quarantine any person they suspect could be carrying an infectious disease such as Ebola, or TB. YET there is an illegal who was identified as having TB and somehow was allowed to disappear from the processing center. Do we really have control of the border and what might be coming across?

(08-01-2014 11:36 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Bringing those people here is downright stupid.

The Liberian government told them not to.

I agree 100%. What was the rush here. Leave them where they are and treat them there. If it's a 60% mortality rate disease it would be likely that those two could have gotten well especially since they were Americans and would have gotten better treatment than those native to the area.

One question: If it's a disease that is carried by blood could it be carried by mosquitoes? They do suck blood and suck the blood of numerous people.

It was a stupid idea and I hope ACA can handle the problem with all those that will get sick.

But hey, isn't this prophesied in the Bible? Another domino falls.

What angers me about bringing them here is that they are confirmed cases and they went there knowing the risk.

I don't think quarantining everybody who travels to the region is necessary but dealing with confirmed cases and those who are exposed is a different story.

This strain is apparently transmitted by sweat and the Nigerians I know won't shake any persons hand.

Sure, just let them stay there. The fact that they were trying to help
in a situation like that doesn't matter, does it? The doctor that gave up
his medicine probably doesn't have much character, does he? They have
probably helped people around the world think more of Americans than all
of us put together. They may even think we are still the land of the brave.
Despite BO.

My guess is that it isn't their choice to return to the US.

It is arrogant to think American medical services know with absolute assuredness the routes of transmission, especially with two AMericans that should know all the precautions with this disease. If there is any guiding premise for disease, it should be that "nature finds a way".

If this strain has airborne transmission capability, which some reports are suggesting, the opportuity to contain is much less. Still do not understand the rush to come to the US, when support in a hot zone, or other isolated area, makes more sense. Bringing them to a heavily populated city seems foolish, at best.

Yeah, and in Atlanta in a few weeks. Pretty f'd up.

(08-01-2014 05:51 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  This is what I don't get. We keep hearing it has to come from bodily fluids- blood, diarrhea, maybe mucous (but I'd thought I'd heard not very likely) and not from simple contact or being in the same room etc.

So, WTF? Knowing the risks, obviously, being educated and health care practitioners, how the hell did these two or more come down with it?

sounds to me like this is yet another "it's not what we think we know, it's that we don't know what we don't know" situation.

If don't know how to cure this, I'd suggest we don't have half a friggin clue as to what we're even dealing with here.

Good times, we've got more schit coming over these borders, both invited and uninvited, I guess we'll get to see this shiny, new health insurance scheme work it's magic in short order.

We are, as a society, chronically stupid. over. and over. and over again.

It is known that the Ebola virus is transmitted by bodily fluid close contact from either a live infected person or the body of a victim. Health care workers or those in contact with victims/bodies are most likely to be infected, since they are the ones likely handling "bodily fluids". Ebola as a virus itself is relatively easy to neutralize through standard sterilization procedures but it is highly infectious to those who even get a small amount of 'fluid' contact, which then goes to the next victim through body fluid contact as well - either not washing hands, touching eyes, licking fingers, etc.

Basic containment measures work well against this type of virus, but the reason it is spreading so quickly *seems* to be 1) the poor villagers in Africa do not understand the virus and refuse to cooperate with health care workers and in turn handle victims, which makes their likelihood of infection very high and 2) third-world countries like the three W African ones dealing with the disease now have limited resources to stop the spread of the disease in uneducated communities.

Ebola is transmitted only after a victim begins to show symptoms of the disease and again can only be transmitted through bodily fluids. It has a 2-21 day incubation period before symptoms begin, after which it consists of two phases. The first is a flu-like phase with a sore throat, fever, headache, and overall pain. If infected persons recover quickly after this phase, they will likely survive. Basic measures to ensure no contamination occur are supposedly effective against the spread at this phase, since bodily fluids are not easily transmitted yet.

However, the second phase is most deadly. In that phase, victims begin to have vomiting, diarrhea, impaired organ function, and sometimes external/internal bleeding. At this stage, mortality rate increases dramatically and it is more difficult for victims to survive. It is also a time of increased transmission to others. Contact with bodily fluids is extremely dangerous and is likely to result in cross-infection. It is more likely to occur, obviously, with the onset of bodily fluid release and bleeding.

So far, transmission to health care workers has been seen to occur only when proper infection control measures have not been observed - this means either a swath of clothing was not disinfected, a glove cross-contaminated onto a person's hand, or something similar has happened allowing for a possible transmission of the virus. The WHO states that when in close contact (within 1 meter) with a suspected EBV case, anyone should observe the following safety measures: face protection - shield/mask and goggles; clean, non-sterile long sleeved gown; and gloves (sterile for some procedures). Hand hygiene is repeatedly stressed as the most important infection control measure past the basic interaction safeties. If these measures are NOT fully and unequivocally followed then infection is possible. Environmental controls are likely also very important, since Ebola seems to thrive in warm, humid climates like sub-Saharan tropical Africa. It is thought that most "Patient Zero" cases may originate from eating infected bush meat, wild-caught animals of the tropical jungles and plains.

See source here:

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

Fortunately, the U.S. has a strict regulatory procedure for dealing with infectious diseases and the likelihood of spread is not that high, considering the close proximity needed to transmit and the method of transmission being bodily fluids. If, perchance, the virus were to appear in the United States, infected persons would need to be immediately quarantined upon suspicion of the virus - which is likely only to be acquired through travel to West Africa. The start of the symptoms would be an essential time, especially vomiting, diarrhea, and bleeding. However, it is common in the United States to typically take extreme measures to control and decontaminate these types of bodily fluids before they can infect others. It is standard practice at pretty much each American hospital that patients who have any sort of release of bodily fluids be treated as highly infectious, and I believe the American public would be even more paranoid about such a thing, careful to avoid anyone who is violently ill.