So, benefits of Sun Belt expansion ( at least for football )

1. CCG exposure
2. CCG revenue
3. balanced schedules

detriments might include:

1. revenue dilution ( probably more than offset by CCG revenue if 12 members )
2. potential loss of upper tier appearance ( should there be an upset in CCG )

Other aspects?

I can understand not making changes ( at the last meeting )because changes are not absolutely necessary and there may be more flux to come. But it does seem that moving to 12 for FB would be advantageous.

(07-29-2014 08:48 AM)StanMolsonMan Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

The problem is... you can make a million or cost you a million if you don't have it at the right place and time. You can be all for football all you want, but the conference can't take that kind of $$$ hit.

Unless you play it at a neutral site, how would you lose money on a championship game?
You wouldn't make much if it had to be played at Idaho or in Atlanta but any other school should have good attendance, and doesn't sound like you would have to worry about that for a couple of years. Could see huge crowds if played at Louisiana or App State, and probably some of the other schools.
Additionally would hopefully be a good push for pushing some team into the access bowl. Doubt they will be able to do that without a championship game. Nut 'em up and play some football!

(07-29-2014 04:31 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  If a team is too afraid of playing a conference championship game because they
might lose, they do not need to be in the championship game.

Yeah - we would hope that if there is a stand out SBC team, they would have a better than even chance in the CCG.

Even give them home field advantage. ( gives much better visual for TV ).

But it still gets you the game, the buzz, and a chance for the under-dog.

I think ESPN holds the cards on this one. They would have final say on the when, because they would have option to televise it. They already have PAC-12 in odd years, ACC, CUSA, & MAC commitments. Not to mention the SEC build up and attention. ESPN has a tendency to over do what they have broadcast rights too, just look at NASCAR and the NBA. Now that NASCAR is moving away, watch ESPNs coverage vanish like a fart in the wind next year.

(07-29-2014 08:58 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:48 AM)StanMolsonMan Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

The problem is... you can make a million or cost you a million if you don't have it at the right place and time. You can be all for football all you want, but the conference can't take that kind of $$$ hit.

Unless you play it at a neutral site, how would you lose money on a championship game?
You wouldn't make much if it had to be played at Idaho or in Atlanta but any other school should have good attendance, and doesn't sound like you would have to worry about that for a couple of years. Could see huge crowds if played at Louisiana or App State, and probably some of the other schools.
Additionally would hopefully be a good push for pushing some team into the access bowl. Doubt they will be able to do that without a championship game. Nut 'em up and play some football!

Losing money at a home site is pretty easy. Catch a bad weather day and 15K show up because the game happens to be on ESPN, and you have a real issue.

No matter how much you could point out that an App State wouldn't have these issues, many teams in this league would. Many of our teams don't have the FCS Playoff experience of having to buy tickets for a game on a weeks notice. We're used to buying tickets and planning trips months in advance. That will knock a decent portion of your crowd out immediately, and if the game had to be played on a Thursday or Friday Night to get ESPN, that will knock out even more.

(07-29-2014 08:58 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:48 AM)StanMolsonMan Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

The problem is... you can make a million or cost you a million if you don't have it at the right place and time. You can be all for football all you want, but the conference can't take that kind of $$$ hit.

Unless you play it at a neutral site, how would you lose money on a championship game?
You wouldn't make much if it had to be played at Idaho or in Atlanta but any other school should have good attendance, and doesn't sound like you would have to worry about that for a couple of years. Could see huge crowds if played at Louisiana or App State, and probably some of the other schools.
Additionally would hopefully be a good push for pushing some team into the access bowl. Doubt they will be able to do that without a championship game. Nut 'em up and play some football!

Easy. Remember, ESPN has our contract. We can't shop a championship game around. So don't expect a million dollar offer. Now that you don't have that. Now ESPN slots us at a 10 AM start time or something ridiculous on ESPNU, because it doesn't want to break up their nonstop SEC lovefest that they are about to televise for the next 15 years to televise App State vs. Idaho(no offense). There goes the advertising revenue. The start time isn't very attractive for attendance. So you now take that hit. The last two CUSA games only drew 17k and 20k.

I'd like to see one, but you can't just say have it and they will come and money will be made. It doesn't work like that.

(07-29-2014 09:09 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:58 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:48 AM)StanMolsonMan Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

The problem is... you can make a million or cost you a million if you don't have it at the right place and time. You can be all for football all you want, but the conference can't take that kind of $$$ hit.

Unless you play it at a neutral site, how would you lose money on a championship game?
You wouldn't make much if it had to be played at Idaho or in Atlanta but any other school should have good attendance, and doesn't sound like you would have to worry about that for a couple of years. Could see huge crowds if played at Louisiana or App State, and probably some of the other schools.
Additionally would hopefully be a good push for pushing some team into the access bowl. Doubt they will be able to do that without a championship game. Nut 'em up and play some football!

Losing money at a home site is pretty easy. Catch a bad weather day and 15K show up because the game happens to be on ESPN, and you have a real issue.

No matter how much you could point out that an App State wouldn't have these issues, many teams in this league would. Many of our teams don't have the FCS Playoff experience of having to buy tickets for a game on a weeks notice. We're used to buying tickets and planning trips months in advance. That will knock a decent portion of your crowd out immediately, and if the game had to be played on a Thursday or Friday Night to get ESPN, that will knock out even more.

Would still be much better than some FIU games I remember seeing even if played in Idaho during a four foot snow. Happens for the other conferences, don't remember a lot of criticism from their fans.
Besides, championship game you actually would normally have much more fan notice. In the FCS playoffs you do not know if you will play the next week until the end of the game, then you might have five days to purchase tickets and make the plans and trip. With a championship game you will know with a couple or more weeks left in the season normally that your team is going to be involved in the championship game.

Being scared that our best team might lose is not a good enough reason to rule out a CCG in my opinion. The revenue and exposure potential are the only factors I would consider. I agree that it should not be at a neutral site. This does present a problem in conferences that are spread out. If NMSU play Ga. Southern in the CCG in December you can't really expect too many visiting fans.

The home team would have a preponderance of having their fans attend.
Someone suggested having the highest attendance team of the two hold the event,
which might also spur regular season attendance, but doubt the football
coaches would agree to that easily.

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

My kids want stuff too. Lollipops are good. They also do not care what it costs. Adults have to think about things like costs though.

(07-29-2014 09:25 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  Being scared that our best team might lose is not a good enough reason to rule out a CCG in my opinion. The revenue and exposure potential are the only factors I would consider. I agree that it should not be at a neutral site. This does present a problem in conferences that are spread out. If NMSU play Ga. Southern in the CCG in December you can't really expect too many visiting fans.

I imagine a Sun Belt CCG in the Kibbie Dome and a poorly attended neutral site doesn't seem so bad.

(07-29-2014 09:34 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

My kids want stuff too. Lollipops are good. They also do not care what it costs. Adults have to think about things like costs though.

Bingo

(07-29-2014 09:16 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 09:09 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:58 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:48 AM)StanMolsonMan Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

The problem is... you can make a million or cost you a million if you don't have it at the right place and time. You can be all for football all you want, but the conference can't take that kind of $$$ hit.

Unless you play it at a neutral site, how would you lose money on a championship game?
You wouldn't make much if it had to be played at Idaho or in Atlanta but any other school should have good attendance, and doesn't sound like you would have to worry about that for a couple of years. Could see huge crowds if played at Louisiana or App State, and probably some of the other schools.
Additionally would hopefully be a good push for pushing some team into the access bowl. Doubt they will be able to do that without a championship game. Nut 'em up and play some football!

Losing money at a home site is pretty easy. Catch a bad weather day and 15K show up because the game happens to be on ESPN, and you have a real issue.

No matter how much you could point out that an App State wouldn't have these issues, many teams in this league would. Many of our teams don't have the FCS Playoff experience of having to buy tickets for a game on a weeks notice. We're used to buying tickets and planning trips months in advance. That will knock a decent portion of your crowd out immediately, and if the game had to be played on a Thursday or Friday Night to get ESPN, that will knock out even more.

Would still be much better than some FIU games I remember seeing even if played in Idaho during a four foot snow. Happens for the other conferences, don't remember a lot of criticism from their fans.
Besides, championship game you actually would normally have much more fan notice. In the FCS playoffs you do not know if you will play the next week until the end of the game, then you might have five days to purchase tickets and make the plans and trip. With a championship game you will know with a couple or more weeks left in the season normally that your team is going to be involved in the championship game.

Unless a team runs through and dominates their division, most title games teams aren't known until the week before. Missouri and Auburn didn't know they were the title game participants until the week before the SEC game last year.

What I worry about is that we get what CUSA's game turned into last year (a flop) 15K fans, an 11am time slot on ESPN2, and 300K or so watching the game on TV. Our Tuesday numbers put those to shame.

We would most likely be relegated to whatever slot ESPN has, which means a potential ESPNU game (Not worth it) or a Thursday or Friday ESPN Slot (Could work, but it creates a scheduling mess)

Two years ago, the Defacto SBC Title game between AState and MTSU drew almost the same exact crowd as the PAC 12 Title game. As our AD has said countless times. Championship games are often losing propositions.

(07-29-2014 08:58 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:48 AM)StanMolsonMan Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

The problem is... you can make a million or cost you a million if you don't have it at the right place and time. You can be all for football all you want, but the conference can't take that kind of $$$ hit.

Unless you play it at a neutral site, how would you lose money on a championship game?
You wouldn't make much if it had to be played at Idaho or in Atlanta but any other school should have good attendance, and doesn't sound like you would have to worry about that for a couple of years. Could see huge crowds if played at Louisiana or App State, and probably some of the other schools.
Additionally would hopefully be a good push for pushing some team into the access bowl. Doubt they will be able to do that without a championship game. Nut 'em up and play some football!

Playing it in Mobile would make money as the GoDaddy Bowl and Senior Bowl can attest to.

(07-29-2014 09:34 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

My kids want stuff too. Lollipops are good. They also do not care what it costs. Adults have to think about things like costs though.

That's why we are here; to take names and kick a$$.
As long as we can break even not concerned with how much money we make off the championship game.
Not interested in being in a conference so that your swim team can visit our swim team.
Hope you buy your kids some lollipops, but we are adults. Life is short and football is good.
Putting off a conference championship game is like putting off sex. You may be able to do it,
but prefer not to, by a mile.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this subject.
Agree?

The problem with that "no more extra games" logic is, unless you've run the table and played some decent P5 teams OOC and beaten them too, you're not getting an access slot over the MWC/MAC/CUSA/AAC winner, period. That extra game WILL matter. And considering the AAC/MWC/Mac already have an advantage with actually having ranked teams at the beginning of the season, good luck with that.

Went to get a cup of coffee, some are posting fast enough to burn the wires.
Some of you evidently have a lot of passion on this subject.
Didn't see some of the last posts until I had posted

How about we tell ESPN when we are going to hold the game.
If our current contract calls for one am sure it most likely says something
about a mutually agreed time at least. If they balk don't we then have
the right to sell the game on a major channel if we can.

Would give the Sun Belt Championship Champion one additional win.
Upside of making money overrides the downside by a long shot.
Besides we deserve to see who would be the winner, regardless of what others
may think. We play the entire year of football, do not want to see a team
win the conference championship by luck of the draw some year because they
didn't have to play a couple of good teams. A true champion, not a pretender.

(07-29-2014 10:03 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 09:34 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

My kids want stuff too. Lollipops are good. They also do not care what it costs. Adults have to think about things like costs though.

That's why we are here; to take names and kick a$$.
As long as we can break even not concerned with how much money we make off the championship game.
Not interested in being in a conference so that your swim team can visit our swim team.
Hope you buy your kids some lollipops, but we are adults. Life is short and football is good.
Putting off a conference championship game is like putting off sex. You may be able to do it,
but prefer not to, by a mile.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this subject.
Agree?

Putting off sex is also relative. Everyone loves sex as a concept. But when you get down to the practicalities of having sex with a homeless man in an Idaho jail....it sounds less appealing.

(07-29-2014 10:26 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 10:03 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 09:34 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

My kids want stuff too. Lollipops are good. They also do not care what it costs. Adults have to think about things like costs though.

That's why we are here; to take names and kick a$$.
As long as we can break even not concerned with how much money we make off the championship game.
Not interested in being in a conference so that your swim team can visit our swim team.
Hope you buy your kids some lollipops, but we are adults. Life is short and football is good.
Putting off a conference championship game is like putting off sex. You may be able to do it,
but prefer not to, by a mile.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this subject.
Agree?

Putting off sex is also relative. Everyone loves sex as a concept. But when you get down to the practicalities of having sex with a homeless man in an Idaho jail....it sounds less appealing.

Not even going to make a reply to your analogy.

(07-29-2014 10:29 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 10:26 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 10:03 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 09:34 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 08:46 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  It's not a dang lollipop, or a piece of eye candy, it's another football game.
You cannot go wrong when you have more football. Especially in a conference
where no team plays the rest of their conference mates.
Glad we have bean counters, but I am after even more football.
If we make a million on the game or 45 cents, I do not care.
Until the other g5 conferences give up their championships we
need to compete with them, even when we have to compete with ourselves.

My kids want stuff too. Lollipops are good. They also do not care what it costs. Adults have to think about things like costs though.

That's why we are here; to take names and kick a$$.
As long as we can break even not concerned with how much money we make off the championship game.
Not interested in being in a conference so that your swim team can visit our swim team.
Hope you buy your kids some lollipops, but we are adults. Life is short and football is good.
Putting off a conference championship game is like putting off sex. You may be able to do it,
but prefer not to, by a mile.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this subject.
Agree?

Putting off sex is also relative. Everyone loves sex as a concept. But when you get down to the practicalities of having sex with a homeless man in an Idaho jail....it sounds less appealing.

Not even going to make a reply to your analogy.

lol..its not my analogy, it is yours. I just provided a less generalized version of it.