See what happens when they try to get involved in places they shouldn't? They give these things to morons in charge of rebellions who commit mass murder. If I am the Netherlands and Malaysia I would be so mad. I'm mad anyway.

Yep. Territorial aggression should be over. If you don't like the hand your country drew, well, tough ****.

(07-17-2014 10:23 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  Yep. Territorial aggression should be over. If you don't like the hand your country drew, well, tough ****.

A nice pipe dream.

(07-17-2014 11:26 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 10:23 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  Yep. Territorial aggression should be over. If you don't like the hand your country drew, well, tough ****.

A nice pipe dream.

Much less that it once was. Too bad the biggest culprit is a grizzly bear of a country.

(07-17-2014 09:15 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  See what happens when they try to get involved in places they shouldn't? They give these things to morons in charge of rebellions who commit mass murder. If I am the Netherlands and Malaysia I would be so mad. I'm mad anyway.

So what would you actually do about it if you were the Netherlands or Malaysia? Commit suicide? Strongly worded letter?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Who are the Russian defenders to whom the OP is addressed?

(07-18-2014 06:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Who are the Russian defenders to whom the OP is addressed?

Exactly. I'd like to see one post from this board of anyone who "defended" the Russians. If the creep Ole Blue can't produce, he should just STFU and imply a self imposed ban to never post on this board again.

(07-18-2014 06:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Who are the Russian defenders to whom the OP is addressed?

I'll own it. I thought the criticism of Russia was overstated.

I'm sorry and confused that the airline incident happened. Doesn't mean Ukraine's treatment of their citizens gets absolved.

(07-18-2014 06:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Who are the Russian defenders to whom the OP is addressed?

The the left a Putin defender is anyone who says that maybe Putin is a better leader than Obama...

I don't think anyone here has defended russia actions but some have commented that Putin, though doing the wrong things, seems to be more on the ball than dear leader.

(07-18-2014 07:33 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(07-18-2014 06:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Who are the Russian defenders to whom the OP is addressed?

Exactly. I'd like to see one post from this board of anyone who "defended" the Russians. If the creep Ole Blue can't produce, he should just STFU and imply a self imposed ban to never post on this board again.

Ever Respect.

(07-18-2014 10:21 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-18-2014 06:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Who are the Russian defenders to whom the OP is addressed?

The the left a Putin defender is anyone who says that maybe Putin is a better leader than Obama...

I don't think anyone here has defended russia actions but some have commented that Putin, though doing the wrong things, seems to be more on the ball than dear leader.

How will Russia profit from this? In November he had all of Ukraine. Today, he has the Crimea (which will cost him plenty to subsidize), and a few statelets in Eastern Ukraine (that he probably won't be able to keep). His dreams of South Stream are delayed (if not destroyed). The Moldovans decided to walk away from them. The Transdnestria statelet will probably have to be abandoned.

He has been doing colossal damage to Russia's image in Europe and now in Asia.

Adding to the issues involving Ukraine, he's basically cut off his country from the internet, tremendously harmed Russian commerce, and is bankrupting the nation with idiotic spending on vanity projects. Capital outflows are massive. Intellectual outflows are massive. People are voting with their wallets and their feet.

Winning? Hardly.

(07-18-2014 10:30 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-18-2014 10:21 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-18-2014 06:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Who are the Russian defenders to whom the OP is addressed?

The the left a Putin defender is anyone who says that maybe Putin is a better leader than Obama...

I don't think anyone here has defended russia actions but some have commented that Putin, though doing the wrong things, seems to be more on the ball than dear leader.

How will Russia profit from this? In November he had all of Ukraine. Today, he has the Crimea (which will cost him plenty to subsidize), and a few statelets in Eastern Ukraine (that he probably won't be able to keep). His dreams of South Stream are delayed (if not destroyed). The Moldovans decided to walk away from them. The Transdnestria statelet will probably have to be abandoned.

He has been doing colossal damage to Russia's image in Europe and now in Asia.

You only dream that he did damage to Russia's image in Europe. The facts again belie your trivial assessment.

However, this incident will obviously impact Asia. However, I am waiting to see if there is some connection w/ Flt 370. It bears some investigation to see if this is just a coincidence.

Quote:Adding to the issues involving Ukraine, he's basically cut off his country from the internet, tremendously harmed Russian commerce, and is bankrupting the nation with idiotic spending on vanity projects. Capital outflows are massive. Intellectual outflows are massive. People are voting with their wallets and their feet.

Winning? Hardly.

You feign knowledge of many things, it's comical to see how often you're shown to be wrong. You're like a bad magician doing parlor tricks.

(07-18-2014 10:30 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Winning? Hardly.

Funny I don't think I ever said he was "winning" because thats a pretty subjective term in international politics. What I said was that as a leader he is more on the Ball than Obama.

You turning that statement into me saying he is "winning" anything demonstrates my original point... If you think Putin might be a better leader than Obama, then the left thinks you worship Putin.

Obama has his own crisis to deal with and his own flops... We are being invaded on our southern border and NerO-bama is too busy fundraising to go take a look.

We are terribly underemployed as a nation and a good deal of the laws has has passed have had "unintended consequences" which his opponents warned him about.

All the Chucklehead and Chief can do is comment "I guess those shovel ready jobs weren't so shovel ready" and "I did not know about $CRISIS happened until the media reported it"..

Obama is a phenomenal fundraiser and campaigner... Not so much an executive leader.

(07-18-2014 11:05 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  You turning that statement into me saying he is "winning" anything demonstrates my original point... If you think Putin might be a better leader than Obama, then the left thinks you worship Putin.

No, the left doesn't think you worship Putin. But they know that they can chill the conversation by accusing you of worshiping Putin. And winning the argument is surpassed in importance only by implementing their socialist/communist dream. To which winning the argument contributes.

(07-18-2014 10:55 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(07-18-2014 10:30 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(07-18-2014 10:21 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-18-2014 06:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Who are the Russian defenders to whom the OP is addressed?

The the left a Putin defender is anyone who says that maybe Putin is a better leader than Obama...

I don't think anyone here has defended russia actions but some have commented that Putin, though doing the wrong things, seems to be more on the ball than dear leader.

How will Russia profit from this? In November he had all of Ukraine. Today, he has the Crimea (which will cost him plenty to subsidize), and a few statelets in Eastern Ukraine (that he probably won't be able to keep). His dreams of South Stream are delayed (if not destroyed). The Moldovans decided to walk away from them. The Transdnestria statelet will probably have to be abandoned.

He has been doing colossal damage to Russia's image in Europe and now in Asia.

You only dream that he did damage to Russia's image in Europe. The facts again belie your trivial assessment.

However, this incident will obviously impact Asia. However, I am waiting to see if there is some connection w/ Flt 370. It bears some investigation to see if this is just a coincidence.

Quote:Adding to the issues involving Ukraine, he's basically cut off his country from the internet, tremendously harmed Russian commerce, and is bankrupting the nation with idiotic spending on vanity projects. Capital outflows are massive. Intellectual outflows are massive. People are voting with their wallets and their feet.

Winning? Hardly.

You feign knowledge of many things, it's comical to see how often you're shown to be wrong. You're like a bad magician doing parlor tricks.

You're free to your opinion. I'm also free to mine, one which is informed by a half decade of working in Europe as a European permanent resident working for a European company (not as an expat). My first cousin just repatriated from Moscow (and speaks Russian). I am of Russian origin (although they would never count 'us' as Russian). Ik sprek Nederlands and I read de Volkskrant and de Telegraaf in Dutch. Hablo espanol and I read El Pais pretty much everyday (I also lived there). I also monitor DW (albeit in English).

The Europeans are reluctant to overtly act. But you'd be a fool to misplace perceived or even actual inaction for support. And you'd be a fool to think that inaction today means no action tomorrow.

By the way, the Dutch are very pissed. They have their own ways of playing F U. Surprisingly effective ways. The Dutch won't deal with a travel ban, they'll just issue about 1000 criminal indictments (which mean that the Russians on their list can't travel anywhere). They'll sue Russian companies in Dutch court. The Dutch run to the courts at the drop of a hat.

------

But I'm curious, what are the 'facts' that you mention above that belie my assertions?

------

(07-18-2014 10:21 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-18-2014 06:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Who are the Russian defenders to whom the OP is addressed?

The the left a Putin defender is anyone who says that maybe Putin is a better leader than Obama...

I don't think anyone here has defended russia actions but some have commented that Putin, though doing the wrong things, seems to be more on the ball than dear leader.

Putin has biitch slapped obama numerous times. Admitting that, according to the left, means we support Putin. You can see how Lazy Tom always says obama stops Putin all the time. Bet Lazy thinks there is international tranquility too.

(07-18-2014 11:50 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  You're free to your opinion. I'm also free to mine, one which is informed by a half decade of working in Europe as a European permanent resident working for a European company (not as an expat). My first cousin just repatriated from Moscow (and speaks Russian). I am of Russian origin (although they would never count 'us' as Russian). Ik sprek Nederlands and I read de Volkskrant and de Telegraaf in Dutch. Hablo espanol and I read El Pais pretty much everyday (I also lived there). I also monitor DW (albeit in English).

The Europeans are reluctant to overtly act. But you'd be a fool to misplace perceived or even actual inaction for support. And you'd be a fool to think that inaction today means no action tomorrow.

By the way, the Dutch are very pissed. They have their own ways of playing F U. Surprisingly effective ways. The Dutch won't deal with a travel ban, they'll just issue about 1000 criminal indictments (which mean that the Russians on their list can't travel anywhere). They'll sue Russian companies in Dutch court. The Dutch run to the courts at the drop of a hat.

------

But I'm curious, what are the 'facts' that you mention above that belie my assertions?

------

And over in Russia, there are Putin haters that are basically saying the exact same thing to Russians on a forum, that you are saying to us. You've been there, whoopty doo, that doesn't mean you know shiit. You're an activist here, you'll be an activist there. Your main problem with Putin is that he has the balls to say he's anti-gay.

(07-18-2014 11:50 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  By the way, the Dutch are very pissed. They have their own ways of playing F U. Surprisingly effective ways. The Dutch won't deal with a travel ban, they'll just issue about 1000 criminal indictments (which mean that the Russians on their list can't travel anywhere). They'll sue Russian companies in Dutch court. The Dutch run to the courts at the drop of a hat.

Hmm... does anyone know the whereabouts of one Arjen Robben? Perhaps it wasn't shot down at all. Maybe it was a dive...

(07-18-2014 01:51 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(07-18-2014 11:50 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  By the way, the Dutch are very pissed. They have their own ways of playing F U. Surprisingly effective ways. The Dutch won't deal with a travel ban, they'll just issue about 1000 criminal indictments (which mean that the Russians on their list can't travel anywhere). They'll sue Russian companies in Dutch court. The Dutch run to the courts at the drop of a hat.

Hmm... does anyone know the whereabouts of one Arjen Robben? Perhaps it wasn't shot down at all. Maybe it was a dive...

Too soon. But still a good one.