(06-01-2014 01:03 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 12:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  What a difference a few months makes. I suggested a long time ago that these guys should just form their own league and pay their players.

And it seemed that a lot of people were not keen on this.

I hate the SEC just as much as the next guy but we can't expect to compete on their level.

Let the big boys have their championship bowl series and let the mid majors have a playoff system.

We've already done that. It was called Division I-A and I-AA.

I don't want to voluntarily just give in and go back to that. I would not be willing just to cave and go my separate way. We had to make too many sacrifices and put up a lot of money to get this far.

If they want to try to force it then I look forward to them trying to: 1) actually pull it off and 2) enjoying all the unintended consequences they seem to be unable to visualize if they do pull it off.

But the cards are already stacked against us. They keep changing the rules to make it seem as if a mid major actually has a chance to compete but the truth is that we will never be allowed in.

I would rather have a shot at winning a championship of mid majors than to go to a bowl game and play the 6th best team from the majors.

SEC has acted like they are their own division for years, nothing new here....Let them create it since they own college football and no other conf. exists or matters....We have been hearing this for years from WalMart SEC fan..

Like Slive gives a tinker's damn about the well-being of student athletes.

F'em and feed 'em fish heads.

The 14 SEC teams just split about $309 million in revenue for this year. That's about $20-21 million a school, and that number excludes any bowl money.

To give you an idea of how fast things have gotten out of hand, in 2009 the SECs revenue was $169 million. It has doubled in 5 years. Mind boggling.

To put that into perspective, in terms of TV revenue, one SEC team makes more money in one year then our entire conference does for the length of our TV contract.

Or the SEC makes more TV revenue in one year then all G5 conferences combined do for the length of their TV contracts.

And the SEC is expected to add $20-30 million to that number with the start of the SEC network next year.

Sickening to say the least....SEC and other power conference are now professional and it will only continue to get worse through the next few years....Maybe the bubble will burst one day but I doubt it and its going to put the final nail on the coffin ruining college athletics.....

Who would've thunk that college (amateur) athletics could be monopolizied

Where does Title 9 fit in ?

(06-02-2014 12:24 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 01:03 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 12:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  What a difference a few months makes. I suggested a long time ago that these guys should just form their own league and pay their players.

And it seemed that a lot of people were not keen on this.

I hate the SEC just as much as the next guy but we can't expect to compete on their level.

Let the big boys have their championship bowl series and let the mid majors have a playoff system.

We've already done that. It was called Division I-A and I-AA.

I don't want to voluntarily just give in and go back to that. I would not be willing just to cave and go my separate way. We had to make too many sacrifices and put up a lot of money to get this far.

If they want to try to force it then I look forward to them trying to: 1) actually pull it off and 2) enjoying all the unintended consequences they seem to be unable to visualize if they do pull it off.

But the cards are already stacked against us. They keep changing the rules to make it seem as if a mid major actually has a chance to compete but the truth is that we will never be allowed in.

I would rather have a shot at winning a championship of mid majors than to go to a bowl game and play the 6th best team from the majors.

You failed to understand both perceptions and history.

If it goes that way and they actually succeed (though I don't think it would be like they think) then we won't even be considered mid major or whatever term.

We'll be just another low level Division that will then be used against us even further in recruiting.

Though the odds are stacked against us I would rather deal with the issues we have as a I-A/FBS then actually be labeled a lesser or lower division.

They can only demand so much more from the market. It has a cap, trying to define that cap is the key. One day they are going to push to hard, and things will burst. That's why the P5 want autonomy. Then they could develop plans to be more like the NFL, in terms of financial decisions, TV revenue, ect.

(06-02-2014 10:09 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 12:24 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 01:03 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 12:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  What a difference a few months makes. I suggested a long time ago that these guys should just form their own league and pay their players.

And it seemed that a lot of people were not keen on this.

I hate the SEC just as much as the next guy but we can't expect to compete on their level.

Let the big boys have their championship bowl series and let the mid majors have a playoff system.

We've already done that. It was called Division I-A and I-AA.

I don't want to voluntarily just give in and go back to that. I would not be willing just to cave and go my separate way. We had to make too many sacrifices and put up a lot of money to get this far.

If they want to try to force it then I look forward to them trying to: 1) actually pull it off and 2) enjoying all the unintended consequences they seem to be unable to visualize if they do pull it off.

But the cards are already stacked against us. They keep changing the rules to make it seem as if a mid major actually has a chance to compete but the truth is that we will never be allowed in.

I would rather have a shot at winning a championship of mid majors than to go to a bowl game and play the 6th best team from the majors.

You failed to understand both perceptions and history.

If it goes that way and they actually succeed (though I don't think it would be like they think) then we won't even be considered mid major or whatever term.

We'll be just another low level Division that will then be used against us even further in recruiting.

Though the odds are stacked against us I would rather deal with the issues we have as a I-A/FBS then actually be labeled a lesser or lower division.

We are already a lesser/lower division. What I propose doing isn't anything new.

Basically what I am saying is to simply allow the big conferences to do out in the open what they are already doing in secret.

I have absolutely no expertise in this area, but here is a thought I would like to share to see if those with some expertise would speak to its merits -- or lack thereof.

Intuitively, it would seem to me that all of the G-5 conferences would be in better shape if they banded together and left the NCAA. They could then tell ESPN, FOX, etc., "thanks but no thanks," and form a G-5 Football Network with national and regional games each week. They could also administer the G-5 bowls with 3 of the bowls set aside for a G-5 4-team national championship playoff. If a P-5 (NCAA) school wants to play a G-5 school, fine, but do it on terms satisfactory to the G-5 (like a home and home series, for instance), or just don't do it. We either take the bull by the horns, or get stuck with what someone else lets dribble down our way.

(06-02-2014 11:02 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 10:09 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 12:24 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 01:03 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 12:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  What a difference a few months makes. I suggested a long time ago that these guys should just form their own league and pay their players.

And it seemed that a lot of people were not keen on this.

I hate the SEC just as much as the next guy but we can't expect to compete on their level.

Let the big boys have their championship bowl series and let the mid majors have a playoff system.

We've already done that. It was called Division I-A and I-AA.

I don't want to voluntarily just give in and go back to that. I would not be willing just to cave and go my separate way. We had to make too many sacrifices and put up a lot of money to get this far.

If they want to try to force it then I look forward to them trying to: 1) actually pull it off and 2) enjoying all the unintended consequences they seem to be unable to visualize if they do pull it off.

But the cards are already stacked against us. They keep changing the rules to make it seem as if a mid major actually has a chance to compete but the truth is that we will never be allowed in.

I would rather have a shot at winning a championship of mid majors than to go to a bowl game and play the 6th best team from the majors.

You failed to understand both perceptions and history.

If it goes that way and they actually succeed (though I don't think it would be like they think) then we won't even be considered mid major or whatever term.

We'll be just another low level Division that will then be used against us even further in recruiting.

Though the odds are stacked against us I would rather deal with the issues we have as a I-A/FBS then actually be labeled a lesser or lower division.

We are already a lesser/lower division. What I propose doing isn't anything new.

Basically what I am saying is to simply allow the big conferences to do out in the open what they are already doing in secret.

That's where you are mistaken...

we are not in a lower division, FBS...those 3 littler letters means a helluva lot. For the schools that moved up from 1aa over the last20 or so years know this or should.

There might be haves and have nots in FBS but even the have nots get 1000 times better coverage and perception than 1aa.

What you proposed is to let them have their own division

(06-02-2014 11:27 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 11:02 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 10:09 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 12:24 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 01:03 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  We've already done that. It was called Division I-A and I-AA.

I don't want to voluntarily just give in and go back to that. I would not be willing just to cave and go my separate way. We had to make too many sacrifices and put up a lot of money to get this far.

If they want to try to force it then I look forward to them trying to: 1) actually pull it off and 2) enjoying all the unintended consequences they seem to be unable to visualize if they do pull it off.

But the cards are already stacked against us. They keep changing the rules to make it seem as if a mid major actually has a chance to compete but the truth is that we will never be allowed in.

I would rather have a shot at winning a championship of mid majors than to go to a bowl game and play the 6th best team from the majors.

You failed to understand both perceptions and history.

If it goes that way and they actually succeed (though I don't think it would be like they think) then we won't even be considered mid major or whatever term.

We'll be just another low level Division that will then be used against us even further in recruiting.

Though the odds are stacked against us I would rather deal with the issues we have as a I-A/FBS then actually be labeled a lesser or lower division.

We are already a lesser/lower division. What I propose doing isn't anything new.

Basically what I am saying is to simply allow the big conferences to do out in the open what they are already doing in secret.

That's where you are mistaken...

we are not in a lower division, FBS...those 3 littler letters means a helluva lot. For the schools that moved up from 1aa over the last20 or so years know this or should.

There might be haves and have nots in FBS but even the have nots get 1000 times better coverage and perception than 1aa.

What you proposed is to let them have their own division

Everyone can see the writing on the wall anyways with split (only a matter of time anyways), its going to happen at least in football for P5 to have their own division despite our label now or what we want or do not want as G5 schools.....No one in Gof5 is going to have any control on what the Power 5 conference do, so I kind of agree on that post about separating ourselves and making the most out of it......We have been second class citizens for awhile in football....we just are not 3rd class citizens like FCS...I would be fine with having own division as long as we could at least maintain a substantial difference from FCS....I can kind of understand all of this in football, FBS football has never been even or fair despite what some may think in FBS....Now if they mess with other sports especially NCAA Basketball Tournament I will be done with college "professional" athletics...

(06-01-2014 07:54 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 07:50 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 06:41 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 06:36 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  I want USM to compete at the highest athletic level, and I think we should drop any sport where we cannot.

How do you know which sports you can and cannot compete at the highest levels in though?

Yes = we are allowed to compete for the national championship. Maybe we go 0-12, but it's against the best teams, and if we go 12-0 instead, we don't go to the Little Seizures Valium Bowl or the Hearts of Palm Bowl, we go to the (real) championship game.

No = we compete for some lesser championship.

This is basically the test Howard Schnellenberger suggested when he left Louisville. USM football has been borderline with respect to this test for about 20 years.

Yes has NEVER been on the table for S. Miss...

NEVER

You are 100% mistaken on that point (scary-looking capital letters notwithstanding).

There have been years in which USM played a schedule that, had we won out, would have yielded a national championship.

Things have changed dramatically. BYU won it all out of the WAC back in the 1980s. USM's schedules of that era were at least as difficult, probably more difficult.

And we weren't getting our asses beat, either. We went to some bowl games that won't even talk to CUSA.

USM was fully legit back then. We had a Heisman finalist in Reggie Collier, got good TV exposure, were a part of conference formation discussions, etc.

It's probably no coincidence that this golden era of USM took place right after I-AA was created, and right after USM decided not to participate in that charade.

What's going on now is eerily similar. We made the right decision back then; let's do it again, or let's make a graceful exit that does justice to who we are (or were).

Let the SEC go, then let the NCAA ban any SEC institution from scheduling any sporting contest with an NCAA member. I have to think that collectively the totality of all of the other NCAA members is greater than one conference.

As someone said earlier, the SEC is really the only conference droning on and on about this. However, as another poster said, I agree that not all of the SEC schools can be on board with this plan.

(06-02-2014 11:46 AM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 11:27 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 11:02 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 10:09 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 12:24 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But the cards are already stacked against us. They keep changing the rules to make it seem as if a mid major actually has a chance to compete but the truth is that we will never be allowed in.

I would rather have a shot at winning a championship of mid majors than to go to a bowl game and play the 6th best team from the majors.

You failed to understand both perceptions and history.

If it goes that way and they actually succeed (though I don't think it would be like they think) then we won't even be considered mid major or whatever term.

We'll be just another low level Division that will then be used against us even further in recruiting.

Though the odds are stacked against us I would rather deal with the issues we have as a I-A/FBS then actually be labeled a lesser or lower division.

We are already a lesser/lower division. What I propose doing isn't anything new.

Basically what I am saying is to simply allow the big conferences to do out in the open what they are already doing in secret.

That's where you are mistaken...

we are not in a lower division, FBS...those 3 littler letters means a helluva lot. For the schools that moved up from 1aa over the last20 or so years know this or should.

There might be haves and have nots in FBS but even the have nots get 1000 times better coverage and perception than 1aa.

What you proposed is to let them have their own division

Everyone can see the writing on the wall anyways with split (only a matter of time anyways), its going to happen at least in football for P5 to have their own division despite our label now or what we want or do not want as G5 schools.....No one in Gof5 is going to have any control on what the Power 5 conference do, so I kind of agree on that post about separating ourselves and making the most out of it......We have been second class citizens for awhile in football....we just are not 3rd class citizens like FCS...I would be fine with having own division as long as we could at least maintain a substantial difference from FCS....I can kind of understand all of this in football, FBS football has never been even or fair despite what some may think in FBS....Now if they mess with other sports especially NCAA Basketball Tournament I will be done with college "professional" athletics...

You said the key words..

it's never been fair so why do we think it should be today? There's not a lot of difference today than it was 20 years ago in college football. Well actually there is a difference...

A MAC school made the Orange Bowl, that couldn't have happened 20 years ago. Another difference we are getting better recruits. The big schools will always get the best but today that next tier of players are not all going to the P5.

One other thing that has changed, we are getting a few home games with the P5. I know Alabama isn't going to play any of us on the road but look at this stats...

from 1990 (as far back as I looked) to 2005 S.Miss played Bama with all of the games on the road. EVERY ONE OF THEM.

During the same years uk never played a OOC game other than UofL on the road...at least Western got them on a NF and considered a home game for us.

So we can ***** and complain but it's ALWAYS been this way...only worse.

I see failed logic in saying that its always been this way (assuming its true for a minute) and now its just being codified and then thinking its going to be better for G5 if they just go ahead and break off.

If it's always been that way then what's the difference whether they do or don't?

That's rhetorical, because if they (i.e. all P5 conferences) officially redesignate us by default then its a lose, lose as WKUYG correctly stated above. If they simply institute policies that favor them without having to get approval from Grand Valley State and the likes then we have an opportunity - the choice - to try to figure out a way make those policies work for us. If they break and leave the current construct then we don't even have the option. We're simply relegated to a lower division in a official capacity that the media will be more than happy to help enforce.

The reason I say let them try is because I hope they do attempt this. Because if they do its basically the nuclear option. And by invoking that option it will blow up so fast in their face they won't know what to do. It would be the most egregious attempt at obtaining cartel-like properties (for freaking educational instutions for goodness sakes) there would be no way for the federal government and Congress to sit idle and allow one group of institutions intentionally take actions to destroy another group of institutions. The lawsuits would fly so fast the P5 schools heads will spin. So, yes I hope they do try it but only because I know it will do more to bring change than anything we could ever do on our own.

Lastly, I'm calling Slive's bluff on this. They won't do it, because they're way too scared to upset the apple cart. They know by creating a new voting structure they can get what they want out of football AND keep the NCAA basketball revenue machine in place. They can push this issue just far enough to the edge to create the maximum P5 benefits without going over the edge and having to feel wrath of a plethora of lawsuits and potential anti-trust intervention. I still think that comes within the next 10 years, but this way (i.e. the current voting changes) they get everything they want without the fear of repercussions.

(06-02-2014 11:56 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 07:54 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 07:50 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 06:41 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 06:36 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  I want USM to compete at the highest athletic level, and I think we should drop any sport where we cannot.

How do you know which sports you can and cannot compete at the highest levels in though?

Yes = we are allowed to compete for the national championship. Maybe we go 0-12, but it's against the best teams, and if we go 12-0 instead, we don't go to the Little Seizures Valium Bowl or the Hearts of Palm Bowl, we go to the (real) championship game.

No = we compete for some lesser championship.

This is basically the test Howard Schnellenberger suggested when he left Louisville. USM football has been borderline with respect to this test for about 20 years.

Yes has NEVER been on the table for S. Miss...

NEVER

You are 100% mistaken on that point (scary-looking capital letters notwithstanding).

There have been years in which USM played a schedule that, had we won out, would have yielded a national championship.

Things have changed dramatically. BYU won it all out of the WAC back in the 1980s. USM's schedules of that era were at least as difficult, probably more difficult.

And we weren't getting our asses beat, either. We went to some bowl games that won't even talk to CUSA.

USM was fully legit back then. We had a Heisman finalist in Reggie Collier, got good TV exposure, were a part of conference formation discussions, etc.

It's probably no coincidence that this golden era of USM took place right after I-AA was created, and right after USM decided not to participate in that charade.

What's going on now is eerily similar. We made the right decision back then; let's do it again, or let's make a graceful exit that does justice to who we are (or were).

Point these bowls out to me because not one of them looks as good as the bowl a MAC school went to last year. And the BYU championship was 1984...30 years ago

(06-02-2014 12:05 PM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  Let the SEC go, then let the NCAA ban any SEC institution from scheduling any sporting contest with an NCAA member. I have to think that collectively the totality of all of the other NCAA members is greater than one conference.

As someone said earlier, the SEC is really the only conference droning on and on about this. However, as another poster said, I agree that not all of the SEC schools can be on board with this plan.

I am sure the SEC has as much power as anyone when it comes to college football, no way NCAA wants to lose any of that money the SEC has generated...So the SEC will have great influence on anything they do concerning football with the NCAA....

Slive is simply using an all too common fear tactic to scare everyone into voting for it.

They're not leaving.

(06-02-2014 11:56 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 07:54 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 07:50 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 06:41 PM)Volkmar Wrote:  

(06-01-2014 06:36 PM)AndreWhere Wrote:  I want USM to compete at the highest athletic level, and I think we should drop any sport where we cannot.

How do you know which sports you can and cannot compete at the highest levels in though?

Yes = we are allowed to compete for the national championship. Maybe we go 0-12, but it's against the best teams, and if we go 12-0 instead, we don't go to the Little Seizures Valium Bowl or the Hearts of Palm Bowl, we go to the (real) championship game.

No = we compete for some lesser championship.

This is basically the test Howard Schnellenberger suggested when he left Louisville. USM football has been borderline with respect to this test for about 20 years.

Yes has NEVER been on the table for S. Miss...

NEVER

You are 100% mistaken on that point (scary-looking capital letters notwithstanding).

There have been years in which USM played a schedule that, had we won out, would have yielded a national championship.

Things have changed dramatically. BYU won it all out of the WAC back in the 1980s. USM's schedules of that era were at least as difficult, probably more difficult.

And we weren't getting our asses beat, either. We went to some bowl games that won't even talk to CUSA.

USM was fully legit back then. We had a Heisman finalist in Reggie Collier, got good TV exposure, were a part of conference formation discussions, etc.

It's probably no coincidence that this golden era of USM took place right after I-AA was created, and right after USM decided not to participate in that charade.

What's going on now is eerily similar. We made the right decision back then; let's do it again, or let's make a graceful exit that does justice to who we are (or were).

One other thing I will ask you to point out to me....

1981 S.Miss finished 9-2 are you telling me the below schedule would have gave you a shot at a National Championship if you went 11-0

Louisiana-Lafayette
Tulane
Richmond
Texas-Arlington
Alabama
Memphis
North Texas
Mississippi St. (3 winning seasons out of previous 10)
Florida St. (Bowden been coaching for 5 year..in polls 3out of previous 10)
Louisville (lets not forget UofL had maybe 1 or 2 winning seasons out of 10+)
Lamar

Other than a game or two that schedule looks a lot like last years...

go 12-0 last year you are in the Orange Bowl

One other thing S. Miss was a "pay check" school.....playing 5 home game one year and 4 the next with no return games from the Big boys