The MAC is one of the quietest conferences in the FBS....and they really haven't jumped around much in the expansion game. How come they don't try to make some waves?

I think if they targeted some key teams, then they could at least emerge as a solid mid-major conference that could possibly start competing with the AAC and the Mountain West....

Right now, C-USA and the Sun Belt are reeling from expansion, and have back filled teams from the FCS. If you're the MAC, why not reach a little and try and grab a few Texas teams, along with Southern Miss and add Marshall back into the mix.....

If you added Southern Miss, Marshall, North Texas, and Texas State, you could go to 16 teams, breaking up the divisions like this:

EAST
Akron
Buffalo
Kent State
Ohio
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Marshall
Southern Miss

WEST
Bowling Green
Miami OH
Ball St.
Toledo
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
North Texas
Texas State

Southern Miss has always been decent at football, and they've sort of been left out to dry by their brethren in the rush to the American....there's no guarantee that they would join, but C-USA is looking more and more like a scrub league....

North Texas and Texas State, while geographical outliers, are both growing programs that have expanded stadiums lately, and they would provide an avenue to Texas recruiting.

Marshall would basically be returning home. They were one of the better MAC programs in the past...I'm sure the MAC would like to have them again.

Anyways, just some thoughts on one of the quieter FBS conferences....The MAC is an undervalued league....I think if they beefed up with those teams, they could gain some ground on the AAC and MW.

Going into Texas is WAY overstretching cultural fit, not to mention travel and other costs associated with the long distances. The MAC has a very solid regional hold, and they do not need to risk it. They should certainly gobble here and there when a natural fit emerges, but there is no reason to push things. Remember, bowl and other monetary payouts keep getting cut slimmer the more schools you add beyond 12. With UMass soon departing, they are sitting pretty.

Depending on how FBS ends up, they may end up backfilling more than trying to go beyond 12. By almost every metric, Eastern Michigan is a low man on the totem pole along with Louisiana-Monroe. I would think the next addition to the MAC could be a replacement for Eastern Michigan to get back to 12 more than trying to go beyond that number. If some of the low FBS teams do end up being shuffled out, there is a very good opportunity for the MAC to pluck a school like Marshall. Western Kentucky would not be a terrible add, either, if it came to it.

If I were a G5 commissioner right now my focus would be getting the membership to adopt tougher scheduling and other standards to force my weaker members to get better or get out, rather than looking to expand.

North Dakota State and Idaho. Dump EMU and at least one team from Ohio.

(05-02-2014 02:10 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  The MAC is one of the quietest conferences in the FBS....and they really haven't jumped around much in the expansion game. How come they don't try to make some waves?

I think if they targeted some key teams, then they could at least emerge as a solid mid-major conference that could possibly start competing with the AAC and the Mountain West....

Right now, C-USA and the Sun Belt are reeling from expansion, and have back filled teams from the FCS. If you're the MAC, why not reach a little and try and grab a few Texas teams, along with Southern Miss and add Marshall back into the mix.....

If you added Southern Miss, Marshall, North Texas, and Texas State, you could go to 16 teams, breaking up the divisions like this:

EAST
Akron
Buffalo
Kent State
Ohio
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Marshall
Southern Miss

WEST
Bowling Green
Miami OH
Ball St.
Toledo
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
North Texas
Texas State

Southern Miss has always been decent at football, and they've sort of been left out to dry by their brethren in the rush to the American....there's no guarantee that they would join, but C-USA is looking more and more like a scrub league....

North Texas and Texas State, while geographical outliers, are both growing programs that have expanded stadiums lately, and they would provide an avenue to Texas recruiting.

Marshall would basically be returning home. They were one of the better MAC programs in the past...I'm sure the MAC would like to have them again.

Anyways, just some thoughts on one of the quieter FBS conferences....The MAC is an undervalued league....I think if they beefed up with those teams, they could gain some ground on the AAC and MW.

North Texas has just in the last 2 years managed to get out of a situation where they were the lone Texas member of a far flung conference. Texas State is now in the same situation N Texas used to be in. I don't see either of them getting all hot bothered about playing a bunch of cold weather games in Ohio and Michigan.

The MAC has too many schools in one tiny area of the country to do much with its footprint. Most schools outside the footprint are going have little interest in playing the vast majority of their games in Ohio and Michigan. The MAC is going to have to add schools that are right there in the footprint or are on the edges and have similar weather. Minnesota schools, Missouri, up-state New York, etc...that's where the MAC needs to look for members who will be as loyal as the current membership.

(05-02-2014 02:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  If I were a G5 commissioner right now my focus would be getting the membership to adopt tougher scheduling and other standards to force my weaker members to get better or get out, rather than looking to expand.

Losing Eastern Michigan and either Kent or Akron would do more to improve the MAC than any amount of expansion from G5 members.

I don't see the point of the MAC making any adjustments to its lineup at this point in the game.

Anybody they go for will only expand the conference over 12 or add travel costs.

As for booting EMU and Akron they are weak football members but on the basketball side of things are above average for the conference. Cutting two schools and dropping back to 10 teams is going to cost the MAC 2 mill of football revenue plus adding travel cost. I just don't see any cuts to MAC membership happening. If anything they would like to improve the Olympic sport offerings more.

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If the next C-USA TV deal drops in value there may be some movement, but right now no one in the G5 not currently in the MAC or AAC justifies the extra costs.

If Ohio's population and economy start to recover, the MAC could be in an advantageous position. Even if a school drops to FCS or just drops football, there are no shortage of regional expansion candidates.

(05-02-2014 05:41 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If the next C-USA TV deal drops in value there may be some movement, but right now no one in the G5 not currently in the MAC or AAC justifies the extra costs.

If Ohio's population and economy start to recover, the MAC could be in an advantageous position. Even if a school drops to FCS or just drops football, there are no shortage of regional expansion candidates.

The problem with the MAC is where it's located: the Rust Belt. Ohio and Michigan are either stagnating or or in declining shape. If there is a recovery then they might be OK in the long run... but I don't think that we'll see the Rust Belt recover it's previous glory anytime soon, if at all.

I think going for a strategy that is similar to the AAC but with other schools would be a bad idea. Generally speaking the AAC are schools that have more money to throw around (doesn't always get them much more but they do throw it around) and trying to keep up with them playing their game is a sure fire way to lose out in the long (not even counting how doing so would probably keep the MAC further behind the P5 leagues).

The MAC should strive to add (if it is to add at all) schools that are solid and close to the region it already holds (while slightly expanding it). This is why schools like JMU would have been carefully considered because it adds a new state, with a school with solid support at its level, and it is an institution that is similar (though a bit more regional perhaps).

Marshal likes to think it is a southern school and I think it has completely burned its bridges at this point (or at least for the foreseeable future). I think WKU also looks to the south and further the MAC has said no to them already once. I will say though that those two schools would be the right type of thinking I just don't think they are in the cards.

As for NDSU they would be nice IF they were a bit closer. If they were in Minnesota, Iowa, or the like they would be in I think. If there were enough quality schools to make a bridge to them that would be a consideration but unfortunately for NDSU there are not a lot of schools to take that the MAC would want between them and NIU. For a point of reference NIU would be their closest road game and they are about as far apart as NIU and Buffalo (which is about as far as it gets in the MAC in the near future).

While schools like USM are tempting enough in terms of their athletic prowess (and oddly their academic profile is similar to a number of MAC schools) they would not be good fits for the conference. I think that most of CUSA schools (and similar leagues) would be full of schools that the MAC could respect but they know they would not be good fits for the league and hopefully they have learned from the UCF experience that just because a school can make a splash it does not mean you should have them in your conference.

(05-02-2014 02:10 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  The MAC is one of the quietest conferences in the FBS....and they really haven't jumped around much in the expansion game. How come they don't try to make some waves?

I think if they targeted some key teams, then they could at least emerge as a solid mid-major conference that could possibly start competing with the AAC and the Mountain West....

Right now, C-USA and the Sun Belt are reeling from expansion, and have back filled teams from the FCS. If you're the MAC, why not reach a little and try and grab a few Texas teams, along with Southern Miss and add Marshall back into the mix.....

If you added Southern Miss, Marshall, North Texas, and Texas State, you could go to 16 teams, breaking up the divisions like this:

EAST
Akron
Buffalo
Kent State
Ohio
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Marshall
Southern Miss

WEST
Bowling Green
Miami OH
Ball St.
Toledo
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
North Texas
Texas State

Southern Miss has always been decent at football, and they've sort of been left out to dry by their brethren in the rush to the American....there's no guarantee that they would join, but C-USA is looking more and more like a scrub league....

North Texas and Texas State, while geographical outliers, are both growing programs that have expanded stadiums lately, and they would provide an avenue to Texas recruiting.

Marshall would basically be returning home. They were one of the better MAC programs in the past...I'm sure the MAC would like to have them again.

Anyways, just some thoughts on one of the quieter FBS conferences....The MAC is an undervalued league....I think if they beefed up with those teams, they could gain some ground on the AAC and MW.

Are you on crack?

C-USA isn't reeling from realignment. Our troubles last season stemed from some of the older conference teams and traditional powers struggling. Southern Miss was down again. UTEP had a terrible year. And, no one saw Tulsa laying an egg like they did. If anything, the recent additions from realignment kept the conference from suffering a worse season. North Texas and Middle Tennessee went bowling, while UTSA and FAU finished the season bowl eligible.

As far as North Texas leaving C-USA for the MAC, that is laughable. North Texas isn't going to leave the Texas heavy western division of C-USA, to go be an outlier in the MAC. We certainly wouldn't leave Rice, UTEP, and UTSA in C-USA to buddy up with Texas State in the MAC.

Arkansas State and ULL might be interested.

Side show is right why leave the weakest conference in the land to play in the second best conference. North Texas is/was tired of being crushed in the sun belt so this new winning feeling has them estatic! Why change

(05-02-2014 02:10 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  The MAC is one of the quietest conferences in the FBS....and they really haven't jumped around much in the expansion game. How come they don't try to make some waves?

I think if they targeted some key teams, then they could at least emerge as a solid mid-major conference that could possibly start competing with the AAC and the Mountain West....

Right now, C-USA and the Sun Belt are reeling from expansion, and have back filled teams from the FCS. If you're the MAC, why not reach a little and try and grab a few Texas teams, along with Southern Miss and add Marshall back into the mix.....

If you added Southern Miss, Marshall, North Texas, and Texas State, you could go to 16 teams, breaking up the divisions like this:

EAST
Akron
Buffalo
Kent State
Ohio
Eastern Michigan
Central Michigan
Marshall
Southern Miss

WEST
Bowling Green
Miami OH
Ball St.
Toledo
Western Michigan
Northern Illinois
North Texas
Texas State

Southern Miss has always been decent at football, and they've sort of been left out to dry by their brethren in the rush to the American....there's no guarantee that they would join, but C-USA is looking more and more like a scrub league....

North Texas and Texas State, while geographical outliers, are both growing programs that have expanded stadiums lately, and they would provide an avenue to Texas recruiting.

Marshall would basically be returning home. They were one of the better MAC programs in the past...I'm sure the MAC would like to have them again.

Anyways, just some thoughts on one of the quieter FBS conferences....The MAC is an undervalued league....I think if they beefed up with those teams, they could gain some ground on the AAC and MW.

The MAC has tried to expand South or East five times. Here's what happened.

Marshall - stayed for a year or two then bolted for CUSA
UCF - stayed for a year and then bolted for CUSA
Temple - was given a lifeline by the MAC, then bolted for the AAC
UMass - was given a lifeline by the MAC, then was thrown out.

Buffalo - actually worked out.

And what do you expect UNT, USM, and TXST to with their Oly sports? USM would be over 600 miles from the nearest member.

(05-02-2014 11:47 PM)RustonCAT Wrote:  Side show is right why leave the weakest conference in the land to play in the second best conference. North Texas is/was tired of being crushed in the sun belt so this new winning feeling has them estatic! Why change

I didn't say anything negative about the MAC. I think they are a good conference, but they are not a good geographic fit for North Texas, and we enjoy having the Texas rivals that C-USA provides.

North Texas had some rough seasons in the Sun Belt at the end of our time in the conference. Our struggles on the field were a direct result of the Dodge years. You can't honestly believe last seasons 9-4 bowl team would have struggled had they played in the Belt. Not saying UNT would have won the conference, (we will never know, and personally, I don't care) but we certainly would have been in the race for the title.

(05-03-2014 12:49 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The MAC has tried to expand South or East five times. Here's what happened.

Marshall - stayed for a year or two then bolted for CUSA
UCF - stayed for a year and then bolted for CUSA
Temple - was given a lifeline by the MAC, then bolted for the AAC
UMass - was given a lifeline by the MAC, then was thrown out.

Buffalo - actually worked out.

And what do you expect UNT, USM, and TXST to with their Oly sports? USM would be over 600 miles from the nearest member.

All of your info is wrong!

Marshall and UCF stayed much longer than year, Temple was also "thrown" a lifeline by the AAC and UMass was given an option and made a choice not to continue the relationship.

Simply put, the MAC is the greatest example of what a conference should be. Although your suggestions are well intentioned, to change the MAC as you suggest would be to destroy its greatest assets.

The MAC is a collection of like minded public universities with approx. 20K students, located within a compact geographical area in the Great Lakes region that can be easily traveled end to end by car. Because of the MAC's distinct profile it is very common for students to have friends who attend other MAC institutions and for alums who stay in the area to have coworkers from other MAC institutions. This makes for an ideal situation to create long standing, meaningful rivalries- 9 of the 12 schools in the MAC have been members for +40yrs, 6 have been members for +60yrs. Common history matters in college sports, sadly realignment as killed a lot of that. Texas not playing Texas A&M? absurd.

SoMiss, Texas St and UNT are fine schools that may share some of those characteristics but culturally and geographically they simply don't fit. Even Marshall, a member from '54-'69, '97-'05 sees itself as more of a southern school, culturally. For the MAC to grow to the next level its improvement must come from within. There is no other conference in the country that is set up as ideally for fans to follow and support- imagine your favorite school being in a conference where every other schools is within driving distance and its students and alumni share a common history. Its what all conferences should strive for.

The biggest problem for the MAC is that its greatness is not realized. 9 of the 12 MAC schools live within the shadows of 2 of the most popular programs in all of sport. Unfortunately decades of tradition have created fans from birth where students and alums of MAC schools spend their lives rooting for schools they didn't attend. With the rise of multiple sports channels and the internet this problem has shown some improvement over the last 10 years, but there's still a long way to go to change the culture. Unfortunately, adding schools from far flung lands like Texas and Miss aren't going to make it any better.

The MAC doesn't need stadiums full of +80K to get to achieve its potential. Based on current stadium capacities the MAC's average attendance is only 10K below sell out, on average. If the MAC could develop a culture of just 5K fans of the visiting team traveling to away games and 5K more locals putting down their B1G pom poms and supporting the local team the MAC could have fun, sold out games in the fall where 25K fans in a picturesque college town would be just as loud and exciting as any other "big time" matchup.

Ultimately the best thing the MAC can do is work to get all 12 current members to go all-in and grow what they already have.

The MAC sure does know how to handle its business. I suspect them finally issuing the ultimatum to UMass was done with others lying in wait.

(05-03-2014 08:10 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  The MAC sure does know how to handle its business. I suspect them finally issuing the ultimatum to UMass was done with others lying in wait.

I think UMass was a victim of bad timing. The MAC probably would have let Temple and UMass be A10/MAC members indefinitely. I think part of the appeal of adding UMass in the first place was to balance out the football conference, which had been lopsided since Temple joined (6 in one division, 7 in the other). UMass would have made it 7 in each division, but Temple bolted for the American and at that point I imagine the MAC decided it wasn't worth having the unbalanced football any more unless they had UMass basketball too, so the ultimatum was issued.

There probably ARE others lying in wait, but I doubt they had anything to do with the MAC's decision and I think the MAC is happy at 12 FULL members.

Of the teams moving at the G5 level the easiest to understand if you take a long look were La.Tech, UTSA, and North Texas.

They all clearly improved their geography.

I think jury is out on AAC even though early returns are positive. Remember at the time the schools jumped to AAC, Aresco was promising triple the TV money actually delivered.

Perimeter Post laid it out perfectly. The MAC doesn't need to expand with UMass on the way out, otherwise we'd probably go with JMU. Long-term I think we have our eye on Missouri State if they get serious about their football program, but there isn't a clear fourteenth member.