It's funny, I hear some of the same things from many Tiger fans here and others who don't post here. Things like..

"Josh is building it the RIGHT way"
"Josh is a great ambassador for the city"
"He's graduating players and has had no off-the-court incidents"
"Josh is getting better, but more importantly he's restored the university's reputation"

These things are GOOD, things to be proud of, but I certainly question the MOTIVES behind these statements.

When did these things become more important than winning?

Was it the day Cal walked out and Josh stepped in? If so, it's a little hypocritical, don't you think? For years we won and won big with John. How many threads, how many posters here were willing to overlook, ignore, and make excuses for our players poor graduation rate, multitude of off-the-court problems, and Cal's foul mouth?

It seems a little too convenient to me that when a young coach, who on the surface comes across as the 'Anti-John Calipari', steps in and takes control over the program, a segment of the fan base "sees the light" and begins prioritizing things that for a decade went ignored or were quieted down by our so-called Hall of Fame posters here at MT.org.

Now it's just the opposite. We have a coach who clearly is committed doing things by the book, has had some legitimate on-court success, but undoubtedly has a long way to go. Those who criticize or bash are shouted down by our Hall of Famers because NOW instead of winning at all cost, winning the RIGHT WAY is the status quo. And it's brought up countless times per day..

So whether or not Josh has what it takes to win at high level is irrelevant for some here. Many around town seem to be content with Josh, no matter what, simply because they hate John Calipari. They hate how he made them overlook things that are now conveniently important. They hate that he made it okay to want to win at all-cost and then left us high and dry, even though we ALL knew John has always been about John.

So ask yourselves, if John Calipari were still coaching here at Memphis, making deep NCAA tournament runs, with players who weren't graduating or representing the city well, would you still be blindly following?

Is it right to question the motives of posters here who DO prioritize winning more than graduation rates, discipline, and cursing on the sidelines when you, yourself, were willing to overlook it not too long ago?

This is something that has bothered me for awhile.

Appreciate and embrace what you have.

To be honest, I was beginning to sour on Memphis during the Calipari tenure and was hopeful that they would choose a higher path when he split.

I didn't know what to think of the Pastner hire, but was glad they weren't going for some other crooked retread. I think Pastner has more than proved that he's up to the task and is growing every year. As long as he can keep the greedy quick-fix fans at bay, the University will be hanging multiple banners instead of locking them in the closet.

(03-29-2014 04:18 PM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  Appreciate and embrace what you have.

This is a fluid concept I guess?

I think a fanbase, at least the realistic ones, can learn. I was happy as a clam to defend Cal, he is a genius at what he does. But I am happy that we are doing things the right way now.

If we can continue to go to 4 NCAA tourneys every 5 years I am ecstatic with that success rate. Because, we will pull an upset here and there, and we will have one fall in our lap ala 2007, or as did UT this year. Going deep into the dance is such a hard thing to do....look at Florida, what have they done since their last national title? It ain't a birthright.

Excellent(infinity)=just whooped some arse

+a whole lot of points

Tampa Bay Tiger has just won the internet.

(03-29-2014 04:10 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  It's funny, I hear some of the same things from many Tiger fans here and others who don't post here. Things like..

"Josh is building it the RIGHT way"
"Josh is a great ambassador for the city"
"He's graduating players and has had no off-the-court incidents"
"Josh is getting better, but more importantly he's restored the university's reputation"

These things are GOOD, things to be proud of, but I certainly question the MOTIVES behind these statements.

When did these things become more important than winning?

Was it the day Cal walked out and Josh stepped in? If so, it's a little hypocritical, don't you think? For years we won and won big with John. How many threads, how many posters here were willing to overlook, ignore, and make excuses for our players poor graduation rate, multitude of off-the-court problems, and Cal's foul mouth?

It seems a little too convenient to me that when a young coach, who on the surface comes across as the 'Anti-John Calipari', steps in and takes control over the program, a segment of the fan base "sees the light" and begins prioritizing things that for a decade went ignored or were quieted down by our so-called Hall of Fame posters here at MT.org.

Now it's just the opposite. We have a coach who clearly is committed doing things by the book, has had some legitimate on-court success, but undoubtedly has a long way to go. Those who criticize or bash are shouted down by our Hall of Famers because NOW instead of winning at all cost, winning the RIGHT WAY is the status quo. And it's brought up countless times per day..

So whether or not Josh has what it takes to win at high level is irrelevant for some here. Many around town seem to be content with Josh, no matter what, simply because they hate John Calipari. They hate how he made them overlook things that are now conveniently important. They hate that he made it okay to want to win at all-cost and then left us high and dry, even though we ALL knew John has always been about John.

So ask yourselves, if John Calipari were still coaching here at Memphis, making deep NCAA tournament runs, with players who weren't graduating or representing the city well, would you still be blindly following?

Is it right to question the motives of posters here who DO prioritize winning more than graduation rates, discipline, and cursing on the sidelines when you, yourself, were willing to overlook it not too long ago?

This is something that has bothered me for awhile.

You need to consider we are not talking about a professional franchise. We are talking about a University sports program whose primary mission is to fund the university academics. Sports is a way draw positive attention to the university which has been proven will raise donations for the entire university. I live in Atlanta where only die hard basketball people know about the Tigers history and tradition. The average fan starts watching games about this time of year(elite 8). When we made it to the championship game I was really proud, yet most of the hall way/water cooler conversations I heard after the game from the average fan included the word 'thug'/'gangsta'/'cheat'. I tried to be an advocate for the Tigers by pointing to the graduation rates, not much trouble off the court. To no avail. Also, the talk radio was bashing Calipari for the UMASS mess and said it wouldn't be long before Memphis was nailed. Then the Rose story broke. It is what it is and it is hard to defend the indefensible. Paster, JJ, CC and others are slowly but surely helping to change the image of Memphis basketball. I embrace it. And if JP can continue to make it to the dance consistently, I feel very confident we will make a few deep runs.

We found out some pretty underhanded and unethical things cal did the last few months he was here. If you listen to his radio show the Monday before the Missouri game, spent the last 10 minutes thanking everyone here, things change, and you move from one chapter in life to another, etc. I stared at the radio and said, "He sounds like he is leaving."

We should all expect this program to be run free of scandal and probation, and moving toward improvement. That starts with the AD and then the coaches, then players. I think Josh will get it done here.

Didn't Jesus have a parable about motes?

(03-29-2014 05:09 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 04:10 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  It's funny, I hear some of the same things from many Tiger fans here and others who don't post here. Things like..

"Josh is building it the RIGHT way"
"Josh is a great ambassador for the city"
"He's graduating players and has had no off-the-court incidents"
"Josh is getting better, but more importantly he's restored the university's reputation"

These things are GOOD, things to be proud of, but I certainly question the MOTIVES behind these statements.

When did these things become more important than winning?

Was it the day Cal walked out and Josh stepped in? If so, it's a little hypocritical, don't you think? For years we won and won big with John. How many threads, how many posters here were willing to overlook, ignore, and make excuses for our players poor graduation rate, multitude of off-the-court problems, and Cal's foul mouth?

It seems a little too convenient to me that when a young coach, who on the surface comes across as the 'Anti-John Calipari', steps in and takes control over the program, a segment of the fan base "sees the light" and begins prioritizing things that for a decade went ignored or were quieted down by our so-called Hall of Fame posters here at MT.org.

Now it's just the opposite. We have a coach who clearly is committed doing things by the book, has had some legitimate on-court success, but undoubtedly has a long way to go. Those who criticize or bash are shouted down by our Hall of Famers because NOW instead of winning at all cost, winning the RIGHT WAY is the status quo. And it's brought up countless times per day..

So whether or not Josh has what it takes to win at high level is irrelevant for some here. Many around town seem to be content with Josh, no matter what, simply because they hate John Calipari. They hate how he made them overlook things that are now conveniently important. They hate that he made it okay to want to win at all-cost and then left us high and dry, even though we ALL knew John has always been about John.

So ask yourselves, if John Calipari were still coaching here at Memphis, making deep NCAA tournament runs, with players who weren't graduating or representing the city well, would you still be blindly following?

Is it right to question the motives of posters here who DO prioritize winning more than graduation rates, discipline, and cursing on the sidelines when you, yourself, were willing to overlook it not too long ago?

This is something that has bothered me for awhile.

You need to consider we are not talking about a professional franchise. We are talking about a University sports program whose primary mission is to fund the university academics. Sports is a way draw positive attention to the university which has been proven will raise donations for the entire university. I live in Atlanta where only die hard basketball people know about the Tigers history and tradition. The average fan starts watching games about this time of year(elite 8). When we made it to the championship game I was really proud, yet most of the hall way/water cooler conversations I heard after the game from the average fan included the word 'thug'/'gangsta'/'cheat'. I tried to be an advocate for the Tigers by pointing to the graduation rates, not much trouble off the court. To no avail. Also, the talk radio was bashing Calipari for the UMASS mess and said it wouldn't be long before Memphis was nailed. Then the Rose story broke. It is what it is and it is hard to defend the indefensible. Paster, JJ, CC and others are slowly but surely helping to change the image of Memphis basketball. I embrace it. And if JP can continue to make it to the dance consistently, I feel very confident we will make a few deep runs.

THANK YOU!

(03-29-2014 05:09 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 04:10 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  It's funny, I hear some of the same things from many Tiger fans here and others who don't post here. Things like..

"Josh is building it the RIGHT way"
"Josh is a great ambassador for the city"
"He's graduating players and has had no off-the-court incidents"
"Josh is getting better, but more importantly he's restored the university's reputation"

These things are GOOD, things to be proud of, but I certainly question the MOTIVES behind these statements.

When did these things become more important than winning?

Was it the day Cal walked out and Josh stepped in? If so, it's a little hypocritical, don't you think? For years we won and won big with John. How many threads, how many posters here were willing to overlook, ignore, and make excuses for our players poor graduation rate, multitude of off-the-court problems, and Cal's foul mouth?

It seems a little too convenient to me that when a young coach, who on the surface comes across as the 'Anti-John Calipari', steps in and takes control over the program, a segment of the fan base "sees the light" and begins prioritizing things that for a decade went ignored or were quieted down by our so-called Hall of Fame posters here at MT.org.

Now it's just the opposite. We have a coach who clearly is committed doing things by the book, has had some legitimate on-court success, but undoubtedly has a long way to go. Those who criticize or bash are shouted down by our Hall of Famers because NOW instead of winning at all cost, winning the RIGHT WAY is the status quo. And it's brought up countless times per day..

So whether or not Josh has what it takes to win at high level is irrelevant for some here. Many around town seem to be content with Josh, no matter what, simply because they hate John Calipari. They hate how he made them overlook things that are now conveniently important. They hate that he made it okay to want to win at all-cost and then left us high and dry, even though we ALL knew John has always been about John.

So ask yourselves, if John Calipari were still coaching here at Memphis, making deep NCAA tournament runs, with players who weren't graduating or representing the city well, would you still be blindly following?

Is it right to question the motives of posters here who DO prioritize winning more than graduation rates, discipline, and cursing on the sidelines when you, yourself, were willing to overlook it not too long ago?

This is something that has bothered me for awhile.

You need to consider we are not talking about a professional franchise. We are talking about a University whose primary mission is to fund the university academics. Sports is a way draw positive attention to the university which has been proven will raise donations for the entire university. For me it is easy to get caught up in the drama and excitement of winning and feeling proud of the University. I live in Atlanta where only die hard basketball people know about the Tigers history and tradition. When we made it to the championship game, most of the hall way/water cooler conversations I heard after the game from the average fan included the word 'thug'/'gangsta'/'cheat'. I tried to be an advocate for the Tigers by pointing to the graduation rates. Also, the talk radio was bashing Calipari for the UMASS mess and said it wouldn't be long before Memphis was nailed. Then the Rose story broke. It is what it is. Paster, JJ, CC and others are slowly but surely helping to change the image of Memphis basketball.

I'm with you man. I dealt with a lot of the same comments where I was at the time and felt almost foolish trying to defend the program. But my post is more about fan motives than it is about Calipari or Pastner.

Do we just embrace whatever is in front of us because we're fans (fanatics for short)? Doesn't it seem a little hypocritical for those Tiger fans, who were fine NOT discussing what was going on off-the-court from 2005-2009 because we were winning, but seem intent on using it now to prop up Josh?

The original post asked "When did these things become more important than winning?" I'd say right around the time that our last two Final Four appearances have been vacated. I'm done with the whole "win at all costs" mentality. I would LOVE to hang a championship banner in the Forum, but I want it done cleanly with a good national reputation. When we had that great 4 year run with Cal, we were perceived to be one of the shadiest programs in the country regardless of whether that perception was justified or not. I feel that if we win a championship with Josh, nobody will accuse him of being a slimeball or think we pulled strings to get there.

(03-29-2014 04:44 PM)Chi-Town Wrote:  I think a fanbase, at least the realistic ones, can learn. I was happy as a clam to defend Cal, he is a genius at what he does. But I am happy that we are doing things the right way now.

If we can continue to go to 4 NCAA tourneys every 5 years I am ecstatic with that success rate. Because, we will pull an upset here and there, and we will have one fall in our lap ala 2007, or as did UT this year. Going deep into the dance is such a hard thing to do....look at Florida, what have they done since their last national title? It ain't a birthright.

Isn't Florida playing in their 4th consecutive elite 8?

(03-29-2014 05:23 PM)TigerFishbowl Wrote:  The original post asked "When did these things become more important than winning?" I'd say right around the time that our last two Final Four appearances have been vacated. I'm done with the whole "win at all costs" mentality. I would LOVE to hang a championship banner in the Forum, but I want it done cleanly with a good national reputation. When we had that great 4 year run with Cal, we were perceived to be one of the shadiest programs in the country regardless of whether that perception was justified or not. I feel that if we win a championship with Josh, nobody will accuse him of being a slimeball or think we pulled strings to get there.

Ditto

(03-29-2014 05:27 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 04:44 PM)Chi-Town Wrote:  I think a fanbase, at least the realistic ones, can learn. I was happy as a clam to defend Cal, he is a genius at what he does. But I am happy that we are doing things the right way now.

If we can continue to go to 4 NCAA tourneys every 5 years I am ecstatic with that success rate. Because, we will pull an upset here and there, and we will have one fall in our lap ala 2007, or as did UT this year. Going deep into the dance is such a hard thing to do....look at Florida, what have they done since their last national title? It ain't a birthright.

Isn't Florida playing in their 4th consecutive elite 8?

Exactly.

(03-29-2014 05:21 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 05:09 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 04:10 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  It's funny, I hear some of the same things from many Tiger fans here and others who don't post here. Things like..

"Josh is building it the RIGHT way"
"Josh is a great ambassador for the city"
"He's graduating players and has had no off-the-court incidents"
"Josh is getting better, but more importantly he's restored the university's reputation"

These things are GOOD, things to be proud of, but I certainly question the MOTIVES behind these statements.

When did these things become more important than winning?

Was it the day Cal walked out and Josh stepped in? If so, it's a little hypocritical, don't you think? For years we won and won big with John. How many threads, how many posters here were willing to overlook, ignore, and make excuses for our players poor graduation rate, multitude of off-the-court problems, and Cal's foul mouth?

It seems a little too convenient to me that when a young coach, who on the surface comes across as the 'Anti-John Calipari', steps in and takes control over the program, a segment of the fan base "sees the light" and begins prioritizing things that for a decade went ignored or were quieted down by our so-called Hall of Fame posters here at MT.org.

Now it's just the opposite. We have a coach who clearly is committed doing things by the book, has had some legitimate on-court success, but undoubtedly has a long way to go. Those who criticize or bash are shouted down by our Hall of Famers because NOW instead of winning at all cost, winning the RIGHT WAY is the status quo. And it's brought up countless times per day..

So whether or not Josh has what it takes to win at high level is irrelevant for some here. Many around town seem to be content with Josh, no matter what, simply because they hate John Calipari. They hate how he made them overlook things that are now conveniently important. They hate that he made it okay to want to win at all-cost and then left us high and dry, even though we ALL knew John has always been about John.

So ask yourselves, if John Calipari were still coaching here at Memphis, making deep NCAA tournament runs, with players who weren't graduating or representing the city well, would you still be blindly following?

Is it right to question the motives of posters here who DO prioritize winning more than graduation rates, discipline, and cursing on the sidelines when you, yourself, were willing to overlook it not too long ago?

This is something that has bothered me for awhile.

You need to consider we are not talking about a professional franchise. We are talking about a University whose primary mission is to fund the university academics. Sports is a way draw positive attention to the university which has been proven will raise donations for the entire university. For me it is easy to get caught up in the drama and excitement of winning and feeling proud of the University. I live in Atlanta where only die hard basketball people know about the Tigers history and tradition. When we made it to the championship game, most of the hall way/water cooler conversations I heard after the game from the average fan included the word 'thug'/'gangsta'/'cheat'. I tried to be an advocate for the Tigers by pointing to the graduation rates. Also, the talk radio was bashing Calipari for the UMASS mess and said it wouldn't be long before Memphis was nailed. Then the Rose story broke. It is what it is. Paster, JJ, CC and others are slowly but surely helping to change the image of Memphis basketball.

I'm with you man. I dealt with a lot of the same comments where I was at the time and felt almost foolish trying to defend the program. But my post is more about fan motives than it is about Calipari or Pastner.

Do we just embrace whatever is in front of us because we're fans (fanatics for short)? Doesn't it seem a little hypocritical for those Tiger fans, who were fine NOT discussing what was going on off-the-court from 2005-2009 because we were winning, but seem intent on using it now to prop up Josh?

Sure it is hypocritical. But long ago I stopped worrying about the motives and actions of others unless they directly impacted me.

Read these posts both pro and anti Pastner. People will believe whatever will support their side.

I don't really care myself. Glad Josh is making all the money he can for his family, because at the end of the day, that's what it is all about. I would do the same if I were he. He seems like a good guy and an ok coach. Not sure that is enough to make the Tigers great.

(03-29-2014 05:21 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 05:09 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 04:10 PM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  It's funny, I hear some of the same things from many Tiger fans here and others who don't post here. Things like..

"Josh is building it the RIGHT way"
"Josh is a great ambassador for the city"
"He's graduating players and has had no off-the-court incidents"
"Josh is getting better, but more importantly he's restored the university's reputation"

These things are GOOD, things to be proud of, but I certainly question the MOTIVES behind these statements.

When did these things become more important than winning?

Was it the day Cal walked out and Josh stepped in? If so, it's a little hypocritical, don't you think? For years we won and won big with John. How many threads, how many posters here were willing to overlook, ignore, and make excuses for our players poor graduation rate, multitude of off-the-court problems, and Cal's foul mouth?

It seems a little too convenient to me that when a young coach, who on the surface comes across as the 'Anti-John Calipari', steps in and takes control over the program, a segment of the fan base "sees the light" and begins prioritizing things that for a decade went ignored or were quieted down by our so-called Hall of Fame posters here at MT.org.

Now it's just the opposite. We have a coach who clearly is committed doing things by the book, has had some legitimate on-court success, but undoubtedly has a long way to go. Those who criticize or bash are shouted down by our Hall of Famers because NOW instead of winning at all cost, winning the RIGHT WAY is the status quo. And it's brought up countless times per day..

So whether or not Josh has what it takes to win at high level is irrelevant for some here. Many around town seem to be content with Josh, no matter what, simply because they hate John Calipari. They hate how he made them overlook things that are now conveniently important. They hate that he made it okay to want to win at all-cost and then left us high and dry, even though we ALL knew John has always been about John.

So ask yourselves, if John Calipari were still coaching here at Memphis, making deep NCAA tournament runs, with players who weren't graduating or representing the city well, would you still be blindly following?

Is it right to question the motives of posters here who DO prioritize winning more than graduation rates, discipline, and cursing on the sidelines when you, yourself, were willing to overlook it not too long ago?

This is something that has bothered me for awhile.

You need to consider we are not talking about a professional franchise. We are talking about a University whose primary mission is to fund the university academics. Sports is a way draw positive attention to the university which has been proven will raise donations for the entire university. For me it is easy to get caught up in the drama and excitement of winning and feeling proud of the University. I live in Atlanta where only die hard basketball people know about the Tigers history and tradition. When we made it to the championship game, most of the hall way/water cooler conversations I heard after the game from the average fan included the word 'thug'/'gangsta'/'cheat'. I tried to be an advocate for the Tigers by pointing to the graduation rates. Also, the talk radio was bashing Calipari for the UMASS mess and said it wouldn't be long before Memphis was nailed. Then the Rose story broke. It is what it is. Paster, JJ, CC and others are slowly but surely helping to change the image of Memphis basketball.

I'm with you man. I dealt with a lot of the same comments where I was at the time and felt almost foolish trying to defend the program. But my post is more about fan motives than it is about Calipari or Pastner.

Do we just embrace whatever is in front of us because we're fans (fanatics for short)? Doesn't it seem a little hypocritical for those Tiger fans, who were fine NOT discussing what was going on off-the-court from 2005-2009 because we were winning, but seem intent on using it now to prop up Josh?

What other choice do we have? Stop being a fan? If that's the case, you (not you but in general) were never one.

It was too embarrassing to discuss. And not all of us thought back then that Cal was God.

I'm glad I have a pathetic life.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(03-29-2014 06:32 PM)BIGGESTTIGERJLB Wrote:  I'm glad I have a pathetic life.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Me too. I have to be satisfied with my own accomplishments, but at least I don't mope around waiting for a bunch of college kids to win a game to fill me with hope and personal self-esteem.