(02-18-2014 02:20 PM)Bull Wrote:  I see you conveniently cherry-pick a solid negative. Okay lets debate this... chicken or egg, if I'm an AAC fan, I've spent the last year being told how much this conference sucks. It's hell, purgatory, limbo, whatever. Everyone is clamoring to get out. Begging to get the 'last ticket' out. The 'last lifeboat'. Schools are sending Christmas cards to P5 conferences, for criminies sake... Now all of the sudden, some schools have attendance problems. Well Hells Bells, how about that!

You had a chance to see how many top 25 teams there?

Quote:The American is a really good lineup for what it is, a tweener conference between the 5 above, and the 4 below. But our schools are huge, we're building stadiums, we're winning games against the P5. Truthfully, that's pretty good for what we just went through. Sure, there are schools with certain warts. Some who have not won in awhile, some with attendance problems. But with growth potential, the AAC is in pretty good shape. In spite of what Cinci thinks, no one in the AAC has a perfect 'move up' resume.

I know that every school has warts. UC certainly does too. That being said, I don't expect UC to be happy with the current situation and I'm glad they didn't say they were. UC sat by while the Big East disintegrated and was the Baghdad Bob saying "everything is fine." It caused them to get burned as they weren't looking out for the school first, but instead the conference. They learned their lesson and now they are pushing their own agenda... setting their own perceptions. UC wants the perception to be that it is the leader among the non-P5 schools and it is working to build that.

Quote:Building this conference starts with all 12 members talking it up, and then backing up the talk with actions. Sadly, a few don't see that... oh well.

Spare me. UC is walking the walk and talking the talk. The school has committed itself to being a P5 school and continues to do that. Cronin is about to get a huge raise, Nippert is being remodeled, UC is about to announce a solution to their arena problems (most likely moving into a completely refurbished downtown arena). I can promise you they aren't doing this in order to be a member of the AAC for a long time as they don't have to do any of that in order to remain in this conference. They are building for the future in a power conference, plain and simple.

(02-18-2014 02:27 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 02:20 PM)Bull Wrote:  I see you conveniently cherry-pick a solid negative. Okay lets debate this... chicken or egg, if I'm an AAC fan, I've spent the last year being told how much this conference sucks. It's hell, purgatory, limbo, whatever. Everyone is clamoring to get out. Begging to get the 'last ticket' out. The 'last lifeboat'. Schools are sending Christmas cards to P5 conferences, for criminies sake... Now all of the sudden, some schools have attendance problems. Well Hells Bells, how about that!

You had a chance to see how many top 25 teams there?

Quote:The American is a really good lineup for what it is, a tweener conference between the 5 above, and the 4 below. But our schools are huge, we're building stadiums, we're winning games against the P5. Truthfully, that's pretty good for what we just went through. Sure, there are schools with certain warts. Some who have not won in awhile, some with attendance problems. But with growth potential, the AAC is in pretty good shape. In spite of what Cinci thinks, no one in the AAC has a perfect 'move up' resume.

I know that every school has warts. UC certainly does too. That being said, I don't expect UC to be happy with the current situation and I'm glad they didn't say they were. UC sat by while the Big East disintegrated and was the Baghdad Bob saying "everything is fine." It caused them to get burned as they weren't looking out for the school first, but instead the conference. They learned their lesson and now they are pushing their own agenda... setting their own perceptions. UC wants the perception to be that it is the leader among the non-P5 schools and it is working to build that.

Quote:Building this conference starts with all 12 members talking it up, and then backing up the talk with actions. Sadly, a few don't see that... oh well.

Spare me. UC is walking the walk and talking the talk. The school has committed itself to being a P5 school and continues to do that. Cronin is about to get a huge raise, Nippert is being remodeled, UC is about to announce a solution to their arena problems (most likely moving into a completely refurbished downtown arena). I can promise you they aren't doing this in order to be a member of the AAC for a long time as they don't have to do any of that in order to remain in this conference. They are building for the future in a power conference, plain and simple.

lol Sure, If only other schools had the same brilliant ideas... Oh wait, they did...

Lets' pick this discussion up in about 5-6 years and look back to see how your strategy worked out. Buena suerte, dude.

I never said it would work, I just said UC is saying and doing. They are now talking about all of this to continue to raise money to help fund the bigger athletic department since they have no BCS money and next to no TV money coming in. UC has to do what it has to do to remain a major player in college athletics and I don't care if it means they talk about wanting to move on to bigger and better. UL did it that way and it worked great. WVU did it at the end and it worked great. UC is just following their lead and hoping a spot opens up in the P5. If it doesn't, I'm positive that the school is not worried about getting kicked out of the AAC.

(02-18-2014 11:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 10:09 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 10:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 11:50 AM)PuddlePirate Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 09:39 PM)UCF_SystemsEng Wrote:  Rice is in a deeper level of hell than the AAC "left behinds". I feel bad for most of the "demoted" programs except for USF, who came along after UCF's football program, wrangled an invite to the adult table, and totally squandered it.

Agree on all points, especially USF, no sympathy here for the same reasons.

Rice has an endowment of $4.5 Billion and a US News national ranking on the outskirts of the Ivies, between Cornell and Notre Dame.

They aren't in any kind of hell in any kind of way.

Athletic hell in CUSA.

They couldn't care less.

I would have to say that's fundamentally untrue, and our new AD as much said so to alums at the Rice-Stanford series this past weekend.

(02-18-2014 02:40 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 11:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 10:09 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 10:00 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 11:50 AM)PuddlePirate Wrote:  Agree on all points, especially USF, no sympathy here for the same reasons.

Rice has an endowment of $4.5 Billion and a US News national ranking on the outskirts of the Ivies, between Cornell and Notre Dame.

They aren't in any kind of hell in any kind of way.

Athletic hell in CUSA.

They couldn't care less.

I would have to say that's fundamentally untrue, and our new AD as much said so to alums at the Rice-Stanford series this past weekend.

Dude... CUSA should so kick them out... That would be grounds for expulsion from "the XII."

(02-18-2014 02:37 PM)mlb Wrote:  I never said it would work, I just said UC is saying and doing. They are now talking about all of this to continue to raise money to help fund the bigger athletic department since they have no BCS money and next to no TV money coming in. UC has to do what it has to do to remain a major player in college athletics and I don't care if it means they talk about wanting to move on to bigger and better. UL did it that way and it worked great. WVU did it at the end and it worked great. UC is just following their lead and hoping a spot opens up in the P5. If it doesn't, I'm positive that the school is not worried about getting kicked out of the AAC.

You keep making leaps of logic here... no one is debating about building a stadium, raising money, etc etc. Also, no one is debating about setting a goal of P5 membership. What we're debating is if the public negativity to your current conference is necessary... It's clearly not, but whenever we try to call Cinci on this, you all slip into the 'doing what we need to do defense'.

Follow the WV lead if you wish (OLuck certainly set THAT standard!), but TCU, Louisville and others showed another way... and in the end, if you get in it won't be because of the negativity towards the American. Not one bit. Which makes it totally unnecessary.

But I don't expect to convince you... agree to disagree.

Jurich talked for years about making sure they stayed in a power conference. He didn't specifically rip on the Big East, but he said they were committed to being in a power conference.

Mike Bohn said nothing different... he said he wanted UC to get into a power conference. He didn't rip on the AAC or its institutions, he said his number 1 priority is to get UC into a power conference. No more, no less.

(02-18-2014 03:22 PM)Bull Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 02:37 PM)mlb Wrote:  I never said it would work, I just said UC is saying and doing. They are now talking about all of this to continue to raise money to help fund the bigger athletic department since they have no BCS money and next to no TV money coming in. UC has to do what it has to do to remain a major player in college athletics and I don't care if it means they talk about wanting to move on to bigger and better. UL did it that way and it worked great. WVU did it at the end and it worked great. UC is just following their lead and hoping a spot opens up in the P5. If it doesn't, I'm positive that the school is not worried about getting kicked out of the AAC.

You keep making leaps of logic here... no one is debating about building a stadium, raising money, etc etc. Also, no one is debating about setting a goal of P5 membership. What we're debating is if the public negativity to your current conference is necessary... It's clearly not, but whenever we try to call Cinci on this, you all slip into the 'doing what we need to do defense'.

Follow the WV lead if you wish (OLuck certainly set THAT standard!), but TCU, Louisville and others showed another way... and in the end, if you get in it won't be because of the negativity towards the American. Not one bit. Which makes it totally unnecessary.

But I don't expect to convince you... agree to disagree.

You do remember that TCU ditched CUSA in favor of the MWC first... Then they ditched the MWC in favor of the BE second... And then they ditched the BE in favor of the Big XII third...

Really not the paragon of commitment that you are looking for.

(02-17-2014 11:52 PM)pesik Wrote:  the league being portrayed as stable dramatically increases our worth maybe 3x as much if not more, even if the execs no it isn't.

Go Bearcats!!!!!!

(02-18-2014 01:58 PM)Bull Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 01:54 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 08:45 PM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 04:41 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I think it was extemely poor judgment by Cincy AD and President to put that out in public, extremely poor judgment.

About as good as a critique and an analogy about the situation as you can get.

It's astonishing to me how many fans of other schools think they know what is best for Cincinnati.

I think everyone expressing dissatisfaction with this situation are concerned with the negative effect on the conference, of which we're all members.

No, this thread is filled with comments about how Cincy speaking publicly about wanting to join a P5 can't possibly work for that school, sounds desperate, will backfire, etc. You've made comments to that effect yourself.

(02-18-2014 02:11 PM)mike012779 Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 03:12 AM)BigHouston Wrote:  All p5 conferences have at least 2 or 3 high quality fotball programs... Which means other members in their perspective conference's help their tv eyeballs/ratings... Not just one program, like say, Ohio State by themselves.

Hence
PAC12 - USC, Oregon, UCLA, Stanford
B12 - Texas, Oklahoma
ACC - Florida State, ???
BIG - Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska
SEC - Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia

Now, if we add at least 1 or maybe 2 of the above high quality programs to the AAC, how would we think our tv ratings would be, not that they're bad now.

Hmmmm, let's take a quick look;

AAC - *Texas, *Oklahoma, ^UCF, ECU, ^Houston, ^USF, ^UConn, ^UC, ^SMU
^Outstanding markets

WOW, in a split second The AAC suddenly becomes a very attractive sexy powerful football conference, MY

The AAC is great football and basketball conference, everyone needs to remain together here and show the world how sexy this conference is... My .2

So your saying there is a chance we can get Oklahoma and Texas to join? AAC has the same problem as the Big East did. You need a alpha team up top. It has to be old blood too it can't be new. West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati and Uconn could have won every BCS game over the ACC and others and it still wouldn't have mattered.

I never said The AAC would add Texas and Oklahoma

I was only trying to point out why other p5 conferences glow over their eyeballs/ratings and why I honestly believe The American haves a good product with-out the cherry on top... Oh, and what would the perception be, IF say one or perhaps two of the p5 quality programs be in the AAC.

See the trouble is that the University of Cincinnati cannot get either of the senators from Ohio to threaten to launch an anti-trust investigation like Orrin Hatch did from Utah... And voila! The University of Utah gets added to the Pac12 and any potential investigation gets dropped.

Or maybe like Mitch McConnell, the senator from the Commonwealth of Kentucky who went out and campaigned for UL to get added to the B12, though he failed in that endeavor.

UC only has it's administration... The Governor, the two senators, even the representative who represents the Southwestern corner of the state... NONE of them are going to go rattle any cages to get UC included or to protest if UC is excluded.... Some of you have the luxury of those connections. UC does not.

You guys who are pumping sunshine and beating the AAC drum...easy to do now, we still had the Big East Bowl lineup and were AQ. Lets see how happy you all are starting next year when our champion....CHAMPION plays in a puke bowl with the rest of the bowls equally puke. Leta see how UCF with a say, 9-3 record feels about playing. .500 P5 team every year for their bowl game. Lets see UH fans reaction if they rise up, have a great year and get ranked and their reward is a 7-5 ACC team. Of coarse UC wants out of this train wreck. Barring a miracle season and access bowl bid, our bowls SUCk. Hope Bohn keeps talking publically and behind closed doors to the P5...

(02-18-2014 02:06 PM)Bull Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 01:32 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 01:26 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  And public perceptions of the AAC (which Cincy's AD certainly did not help) affect our ratings.

That's the biggest crock of **** I've ever read from you, and you've said some ridiculous things over the years.

If you really believe that the very public trashing of this conference by certain g'ovt officials, school officials, and fans, right smack dab in the middle of our TV negotiations... isn't at least partially responsible for the non-competition for our contract, and our whopping 2 million per school payout... then there's not much else to say.

Do you seriously think that network executives whose job it is to evaluate value from all angles could be spooked by public comments by fans and school officials? Seriously?

Our TV contract reflected the fair market value of our conference as of Spring 2013. We were in no way or shape "undervalued". That's the Cold Hard Truth.

I really don't have a horse in this race, but the UC folks could have been a bit more tactful in their explanation. Jurich never spoke poorly of the Big East (or CUSA). You can talk about where you want to go without offending where you are now. I think next year UC, UConn, and USF are going to feel as if they are going backward. The Cincy folks just want their fans and boosters to know they will not rest until they go forward again (into a p5 -- something WE ALL KNOW). However, some of what they said could be construed as negative against the AAC.

I think in cases like these, they simply could have talked about how great the BE was and how much of an investment UC had made in order to compete and succeed in a power conference. They could talk about going forward in the American and their #1 priority is wanting to remain competitive with top programs in all sports. Then you merely state that you believe that can be achieved in the American, but if not, UC will always do what is necessary to keep their program as a high-profile competitive one. Then you talk about how things in conferences are stable for now and fluff up the AAC's new rivalries and perhaps maintaining old competitive ones with former BE teammates.

That's it. But, IMO, I think UC is where UConn was last year in coming to terms with things. They will regroup and come up with a good (more tactful) game plan that will make them look like a good conferencemate, while continuing their quest to join a P5.

(02-18-2014 03:46 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 02:06 PM)Bull Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 01:32 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 01:26 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  And public perceptions of the AAC (which Cincy's AD certainly did not help) affect our ratings.

That's the biggest crock of **** I've ever read from you, and you've said some ridiculous things over the years.

If you really believe that the very public trashing of this conference by certain g'ovt officials, school officials, and fans, right smack dab in the middle of our TV negotiations... isn't at least partially responsible for the non-competition for our contract, and our whopping 2 million per school payout... then there's not much else to say.

Do you seriously think that network executives whose job it is to evaluate value from all angles could be spooked by public comments by fans and school officials? Seriously?

Our TV contract reflected the fair market value of our conference as of Spring 2013. We were in no way or shape "undervalued". That's the Cold Hard Truth.

Didn't you know that ESPN execs read this board and take notes!? Come on QUO, get with the program dude!

What did Mike Bohn say that was negative about the AAC? Please tell me.

(02-18-2014 02:20 PM)Bull Wrote:  In spite of what Cinci thinks, no one in the AAC has a perfect 'move up' resume.

As a fellow USF fan, I'm surprised to see you frame things way. The issue here is that Cincy, like USF, has proven to have a 'move down' resume, as in we've been moved down from the AQ Big East to the G5 AAC.

That's the whole problem, and I hope USF admins are active and aggressive in solving it.

Bottom line: While on the day to day surface it may seem that USF and the AAC have the same interests, in a deeper sense USF and the AAC have a fundamental divergence of interests: The AAC will never, ever, be a Power conference, whereas USF has the goal of being a Power conference school.

Thus, USF must be working to end its affiliation with the AAC. We simply have to be.

(02-18-2014 03:46 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 02:06 PM)Bull Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 01:32 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 01:26 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  And public perceptions of the AAC (which Cincy's AD certainly did not help) affect our ratings.

That's the biggest crock of **** I've ever read from you, and you've said some ridiculous things over the years.

If you really believe that the very public trashing of this conference by certain g'ovt officials, school officials, and fans, right smack dab in the middle of our TV negotiations... isn't at least partially responsible for the non-competition for our contract, and our whopping 2 million per school payout... then there's not much else to say.

Do you seriously think that network executives whose job it is to evaluate value from all angles could be spooked by public comments by fans and school officials? Seriously?

Our TV contract reflected the fair market value of our conference as of Spring 2013. We were in no way or shape "undervalued". That's the Cold Hard Truth.

You have to be joking, right? The goal is to 'sell' the product to the viewers. Perception of the customer is HUGE. Yet you'd discount 'public comments by fans and school officials', in deciding if you can sell a product to the public...?

Not gonna take the bait buddy...