(02-15-2014 07:14 PM)lenetzach Wrote: Fact or opinion? I'm confused my man!
well it's both. Cal screams and works the refs. It's not a situation where we are bashing josh. nothing to be confused about at all.
How is that a fact? What evidence do you have?
the evidence is that Cal works the refs, give me a break, its not a debate that Cal works refs. i'm not bashing josh, I am saying work the refs. what's the problem?
So where is the evidence that Cal working the refs would've changed anything today. That's his point, and it's a good one.
there isn't any proof that working the refs would have changed the outcome of the game or how it was officiated. my point is that Josh should and needs to work refs during games. this doesn't mean I hate josh. everyone can agree that you want your coach to work refs during the game.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2014 08:40 PM by Joe1.)
Interesting that prior to this year we had played UConn only once. That was in the 2007-8 season. We were called for 28 fouls compared to UConn's 18. They shot 38 free throws to 21 for us.
Fouls called on Memphis: 433
Opponents called: 500
Some lesser opponents- but the BS idea that somehow today's screw job was due to some perceived lack of respect or lack of proper bitching by Pastner is way off.
Today was simply a really bad arguably game altering job by the refs- who fell to home crowd and Napier star.
Want to argue on the defensive possession when Napier tied the game (with a foul of curse) that Pastner should have had an altered lineup- fair enough- but he is not getting patted on the head. Egregious by the refs.
(02-15-2014 08:38 PM)Joe1 Wrote: there isn't any proof that working the refs would have changed the outcome of the game or how it was officiated. my point is that Josh should and needs to work refs during games. this doesn't mean I hate josh. everyone can agree that you want your coach to work refs during the game.
The position that nothing else more would've happened with the officiating if Pastner had began riding the refs hard versus doing nothing doesn't seem logical to me. We know what happens when you do basically nothing ... we saw that today. Drawing a conclusion that doing something way opposite of that would result in the same exact thing is a bit of a reach. I'm not saying we even win the game, and maybe it doesn't make a difference, but sure seems like it would be worth a try.
I'd have loved to see him get T'd up or even ejected. There was some BS going on out there.
I'm also not mad that he chose to do it his way. I've never seen any proof or even evidence to suggest that a 35 year old coach mouthing off to the refs gets his team calls, neither in the short arc nor the long arc.
(02-15-2014 07:16 PM)Joe1 Wrote: well it's both. Cal screams and works the refs. It's not a situation where we are bashing josh. nothing to be confused about at all.
How is that a fact? What evidence do you have?
the evidence is that Cal works the refs, give me a break, its not a debate that Cal works refs. i'm not bashing josh, I am saying work the refs. what's the problem?
So where is the evidence that Cal working the refs would've changed anything today. That's his point, and it's a good one.
Yes, because working the refs always works.
Example:
The UConn player moved into the defender to draw contact. He slid to his right in order to make contact. Good no-call.
(02-15-2014 09:25 PM)80sTiger Wrote: The position that nothing else more would've happened with the officiating if Pastner had began riding the refs hard versus doing nothing doesn't seem logical to me. We know what happens when you do basically nothing ... we saw that today. Drawing a conclusion that doing something way opposite of that would result in the same exact thing is a bit of a reach. I'm not saying we even win the game, and maybe it doesn't make a difference, but sure seems like it would be worth a try.
Nothing? We almost won the game!!! Had Josh been getting under a ref's skin all game, he could've gotten T'd up and/or kicked out, potentially putting the game out of reach altogether.
This is just more monday morning armchair coaching. "Well, if Pastner had done X I KNOW we would've won".
We hear this garbage after every game. Throw it on the pile. Pastner didn't coach a perfect game, but overcoming all the stuff we did only to have victory snatched from us, you're just nitpicking and complaining for the sake of complaining now. The blowout vs. OS, or SMU, or Cincy, sure, complain away. THIS game? Don't be silly.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2014 09:42 PM by MemphisCanes.)
It is possible that a bad technical seals the game for a UConn team already benefiting from incredibly favorable refereeing (not a conspiracy- just a bad afternoon).
He jawed with the refs a lot- and as mentioned- for the season we have not been screwed. We got major league big calls late at Louisville for example.
Today the refs allowed themselves to be home courted and they broke their kneecaps blowing Napier and to a lesser extent Boatright. 24 free throws for those two- 9 for Memphis as a team- even while Memphis kids like Geron and Joe were heading to the rack today too.
(02-15-2014 09:27 PM)NJ1 Wrote: I'd have loved to see him get T'd up or even ejected. There was some BS going on out there.
I'm also not mad that he chose to do it his way. I've never seen any proof or even evidence to suggest that a 35 year old coach mouthing off to the refs gets his team calls, neither in the short arc nor the long arc.
You can't prove something like that. But let's give it odds.
What are the odds it would've been worse if he'd ridden the refs more? 5%? Is it likely UConn shoots 45 free throws if he's harder on them? 50? UConn is essentially at the upper limit of free throws you can shoot in a game without being fouled repeatedly in the last 3 minutes to extend the game.
I'd never try to mathematically approach this, but I would bet you that the ratio of our free throws to opponent free throws, at 4:1, is > 2 standard deviations from normal (ie at or above the 95th percentile). The number of FT attempts/game of the #1 team at FTA/game is 32.6, indicating again, at 36, you are well above 2 standard deviations from normal. Connecticut is ranked 236/350 in FTA/game. The variance from the norm is extremely high
You have to predict that any influencing factor is going to reduce the variance rather than increase it given how far from normal it already is.
So . . .if riding the effects has any positive effects, this is the game where it will be most likely to work
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2014 09:45 PM by jgardne.)
(02-15-2014 07:14 PM)lenetzach Wrote: Fact or opinion? I'm confused my man!
well it's both. Cal screams and works the refs. It's not a situation where we are bashing josh. nothing to be confused about at all.
How is that a fact? What evidence do you have?
the evidence is that Cal works the refs, give me a break, its not a debate that Cal works refs. i'm not bashing josh, I am saying work the refs. what's the problem?
Knee jerk reaction to all the posts from the Blame JP Crowd. Wrote mine before seeing the "not to bash Josh". Still, I'd rather be in the NIT w/ JP vs. Final Four with Slimeball.
(02-15-2014 09:27 PM)NJ1 Wrote: I'd have loved to see him get T'd up or even ejected. There was some BS going on out there.
I'm also not mad that he chose to do it his way. I've never seen any proof or even evidence to suggest that a 35 year old coach mouthing off to the refs gets his team calls, neither in the short arc nor the long arc.
You can't prove something like that. But let's give it odds.
What are the odds it would've been worse if he'd ridden the refs more? 5%? Is it likely UConn shoots 45 free throws if he's harder on them? 50? UConn is essentially at the upper limit of free throws you can shoot in a game without being fouled repeatedly in the last 3 minutes to extend the game.
I'd never try to mathematically approach this, but I would bet you that the ratio of our free throws to opponent free throws, at 4:1, is > 2 standard deviations from normal (ie at or above the 95th percentile). The number of FT attempts/game of the #1 team at FTA/game is 32.6, indicating again, at 36, you are well above 2 standard deviations from normal. Connecticut is ranked 236/350 in FTA/game. The variance from the norm is extremely high
You have to predict that any influencing factor is going to reduce the variance rather than increase it given how far from normal it already is.
So . . .if riding the effects has any positive effects, this is the game where it will be most likely to work
I'd put it closer to 50%. It's just as likely a ref gives Pastner a T or at least gets irritated with the whining and goes heavier on the whistles. Hell, he freaks and he is likely kicked out like in the Ollie clip.
This argument is extremely, extremely dumb.
Akin to asking "well, what if I had gotten the NEXT lotto ticket down in the stack. I mean, the one I bought was a loser, but I bet the one I DIDN'T buy would've won."
(02-15-2014 08:38 PM)Joe1 Wrote: there isn't any proof that working the refs would have changed the outcome of the game or how it was officiated. my point is that Josh should and needs to work refs during games. this doesn't mean I hate josh. everyone can agree that you want your coach to work refs during the game.
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This is not to bash Josh, but in my opinion
