(01-20-2014 12:10 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  He recognizes everyone sons and calls for us to repent and strive to sin no more. If someone has unwanted same-sex attractions and acts on them and later asks for forgiveness, they committed a sin no different than premarital sex or adultery. Those who are "gay" and practice gay pride, try to spread their disease and have no shame will probably have some explaining to do.

Man A:

Raped a toddler. Begged forgiveness in his thoughts during prison stay. Dies. Eternal Bliss

Man B:

Used the intelligent mind God granted him to come to the conclusion that there is no God. Lives morally responsible life. Harms no one. Dies. Eternal hellfire.

Seems like a legit way to determine eternal fate.

(01-20-2014 12:01 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I get preached to by atheists trying to convert me constantly.

Where? I've never had that experience.

(01-20-2014 11:59 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  I think it is pretty clear, and laughing about it only reveals your level of uncomfortableness as we approach the truth.

Go to any online discussion about religion and look at the new atheists denigrate anyone who chooses to believe in the Christian faith.

My laughing reveals amusement at the idiocy of that notion. Nothing more.

You are not as well cloaked as you think. You aren't the only one that has been where you are at now.

(01-20-2014 12:08 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  and when those who are afraid do not turn to God, they turn to other vices like drugs.

Or sex or money/materials or personalities.

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(01-20-2014 12:08 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  But that is where your mistake lies. That is not a logical conclusion. Therefore those who sign up for the Bill Mahar version of atheism are not looking at it from a logical standpoint.

They have merely convinced themselves they are being logical.

I disagree that the conclusion is not logical. Either way. I'm glad I got you to understand that their atheistic convictions are driven via logic (good or bad, that's not the point right now) rather than fear.

That's more than any religious person can say. Logic>Faith

Quote:Man A:

Raped a toddler. Begged forgiveness in his thoughts during prison stay. Dies. Eternal Bliss

Man B:

Used the intelligent mind God granted him to come to the conclusion that there is no God. Lives morally responsible life. Harms no one. Dies. Eternal hellfire.

Seems like a legit way to determine eternal fate.

A just God offers forgiveness for ALL, and a life long chance to find and live for him with just rewards of eternal life.

You have too much hate for the idea of God to ever open your heart to this knowledge and understanding.

(01-20-2014 12:13 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:08 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  But that is where your mistake lies. That is not a logical conclusion. Therefore those who sign up for the Bill Mahar version of atheism are not looking at it from a logical standpoint.

They have merely convinced themselves they are being logical.

I disagree that the conclusion is not logical. Either way. I'm glad I got you to understand that their atheistic convictions are driven via logic (good or bad, that's not the point right now) rather than fear.

That's more than any religious person can say. Logic>Faith

True atheism is not driven by fear or logic. That is not what we are addressing here today.

(01-20-2014 12:12 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:08 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  and when those who are afraid do not turn to God, they turn to other vices like drugs.

Or sex or money/materials or personalities.

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exactly.

(01-20-2014 12:01 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 11:56 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 11:52 AM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 11:51 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  I think I have addressed that already. You have those pushing it and the useful idiots who adopt it. Those who push it exploit their followers fears of being held accountable by God and what will happen to them after they die.

Those pushing it know their agenda is easier to implement without religion interfering.

How would that fear drive someone to adopt atheism? Seems just the opposite to me.

Not true atheism, new atheism. It's easier to say "who cares, God doesn't exist anyway." than to live a Godly existence. However, they are not truly convinced so they rail against those who remind them they may be wrong.

Fear doesn't drive someone to stick their head in the sand. I've never heard someone use this argument before but it is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Fear of mortality leads you to Godly religions. People's atheism and lack of fear of God and his potential punishments comes from a logical conclusion that they do not exist. It would be absurd to disbelieve something because you fear it.

People don't like to consider spiritual questions because of the implications of the answers upon their lives. In other words, they feel that if serious consideration is given to some of the profound questions of life and God, then they may learn that they have a responsibility to respond accordingly. So they choose not to engage (aka stick their head in the sand)

This is just one of those where you shake your head and walk away.

(01-20-2014 12:18 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  This is just one of those where you shake your head and walk away.

explain. I think this discussion has been quite productive.

(01-20-2014 12:13 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  I disagree that the conclusion is not logical. Either way. I'm glad I got you to understand that their atheistic convictions are driven via logic (good or bad, that's not the point right now) rather than fear.

That's more than any religious person can say. Logic>Faith

There is NOTHING logical about the entire universe just blinking into existence from total nothingness.

That is as big of a fantasy as any religion has ever concocted.

(01-20-2014 12:06 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Not true. Atheism is the path to do what you want with no consequences and no judgement. The result has been moral rot at an exponential rate.

Where does this misconception come from? Morals are drawn from human reason about what is right and wrong. There is a much smaller percentage of atheists in prison than in the general population. There is a much larger percentage of atheists in the National Academy of Sciences (93%) than the general popluation.

If it weren't for the bible, would you murder and steal?

(01-20-2014 12:06 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Anyway, if I am right, I'll have a good afterlife and you'll burn for eternity. If you are right, we have no soul and we both biodegrade the same. I like my position better.

I don't think you can use Pascal's Wager as reason to believe and earn your ticket through the pearly gates.

(01-20-2014 12:11 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You are not as well cloaked as you think. You aren't the only one that has been where you are at now.

Huh? What about that evidence of WBC funding an atheist movement?

(01-20-2014 12:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  True atheism is not driven by fear or logic. That is not what we are addressing here today.

No true atheist would tell you that their lack of religion is driven by anything other than logic.

(01-20-2014 12:20 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:13 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  I disagree that the conclusion is not logical. Either way. I'm glad I got you to understand that their atheistic convictions are driven via logic (good or bad, that's not the point right now) rather than fear.

That's more than any religious person can say. Logic>Faith

There is NOTHING logical about the entire universe just blinking into existence from total nothingness.

That is as big of a fantasy as any religion has ever concocted.

Physics major?

(01-20-2014 12:10 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 11:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  He recognizes everyone sons and calls for us to repent and strive to sin no more. If someone has unwanted same-sex attractions and acts on them and later asks for forgiveness, they committed a sin no different than premarital sex or adultery. Those who are "gay" and practice gay pride, try to spread their disease and have no shame will probably have some explaining to do.

Man A:

Raped a toddler. Begged forgiveness in his thoughts during prison stay. Dies. Eternal Bliss

Man B:

Used the intelligent mind God granted him to come to the conclusion that there is no God. Lives morally responsible life. Harms no one. Dies. Eternal hellfire.

Seems like a legit way to determine eternal fate.

(01-20-2014 12:01 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I get preached to by atheists trying to convert me constantly.

Where? I've never had that experience.

(01-20-2014 11:59 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  I think it is pretty clear, and laughing about it only reveals your level of uncomfortableness as we approach the truth.

Go to any online discussion about religion and look at the new atheists denigrate anyone who chooses to believe in the Christian faith.

My laughing reveals amusement at the idiocy of that notion. Nothing more.

On what basis do you determine that you are living a moral and responsible life? How do you know?

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After reviewing this thread, I wanted to rundown a few quick points:

1) The answer to the original question is anti-theist

2) There is no religious requirement to be conservative. Similarly, religious people can be liberals. That being said, non-religious tend to fall more on the left side of the spectrum and very religious tend to fall more on the right side of the spectrum.

3) While the majority of the people on the planet are religious, only about one third are Christians so this conversation seems unnecessarily focused on one religion while ignoring the other 4.6 Billion people on the planet.

4) People can have understanding of religious texts and doctrine without converting to that particular faith. A Christian can study Islam without converting and it works the other way too.

Quote:I don't think you can use Pascal's Wager as reason to believe and earn your ticket through the pearly gates.

Grossly dishonest and very telling post from you.

"Where does this misconception come from? Morals are drawn from human reason about what is right and wrong. There is a much smaller percentage of atheists in prison than in the general population. "

Gotcha, so your moral values come from the law. If it is legal, it's moral and vice versa. In other words, Government is your God. See, you are not atheist.

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(01-20-2014 12:26 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:20 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:13 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  I disagree that the conclusion is not logical. Either way. I'm glad I got you to understand that their atheistic convictions are driven via logic (good or bad, that's not the point right now) rather than fear.

That's more than any religious person can say. Logic>Faith

There is NOTHING logical about the entire universe just blinking into existence from total nothingness.

That is as big of a fantasy as any religion has ever concocted.

Physics major?

in other words you have no response

(01-20-2014 12:26 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  On what basis do you determine that you are living a moral and responsible life? How do you know?

Reason. That's where everyone's morals truly come from. That's why you don't kill homosexuals like the bible commands. Something tells us that's wrong.

Do we really think the bible is the true moral code? It's our own minds people!

I mean c'mon. Think about a couple of the things that made it into the ten commandments instead of rape:

No gods before me (God is all-powerful and jealous?)
Keep the sabbath holy (except fall?)
Though shall not covet (we have an economy to keep going! Capitalism loves coveting.)

(01-20-2014 12:25 PM)Fatalisk Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 12:06 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Not true. Atheism is the path to do what you want with no consequences and no judgement. The result has been moral rot at an exponential rate.

Where does this misconception come from? Morals are drawn from human reason about what is right and wrong. There is a much smaller percentage of atheists in prison than in the general population. There is a much larger percentage of atheists in the National Academy of Sciences (93%) than the general popluation.

If it weren't for the bible, would you murder and steal?

(01-20-2014 12:06 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Anyway, if I am right, I'll have a good afterlife and you'll burn for eternity. If you are right, we have no soul and we both biodegrade the same. I like my position better.

I don't think you can use Pascal's Wager as reason to believe and earn your ticket through the pearly gates.

(01-20-2014 12:11 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  You are not as well cloaked as you think. You aren't the only one that has been where you are at now.

Huh? What about that evidence of WBC funding an atheist movement?

(01-20-2014 12:14 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  True atheism is not driven by fear or logic. That is not what we are addressing here today.

No true atheist would tell you that their lack of religion is driven by anything other than logic.

But that is not logical. There is no true logic that demonstrates the probability that God does not exist.

The information is there for you to look. A simple Google search will suffice. There is no definitive proof that WBC takes Soros money, but the same goes for OWW - only arrows. However, it is pretty clear what they are and who is behind it.

(01-20-2014 12:30 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  in other words you have no response

In other words liberal arts major.