Well, at least next year you have MD and Rutgers to help you maintain your competiveness.

(01-04-2014 03:42 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Well, at least next year you have MD and Rutgers to help you maintain your competiveness.

Is that supposed to sting?

Paper Tiger, thou hast a name, and thy name is B1G....

The bad comedy in all this is next year, like every year, the media/fans all get amnesia and like half the B1G will be ranked pre season, they will play a bunch of MAC teams, feel good about themselves, then conference starts and two top 10 B1G will play and the announcers will be in awe of these two "giants" slugging it out and then bowl season begins and the B1G gets crushed and we all laugh and say they are overrated and then it begins again the next year and next and next. It's the B1G wheel of life...

Life Cycle:
Preseason: Half B1G ranked
Early part of season: B1G teams feast on MAC schools and beat them by 40 in front of packed houses
Conference: Due to preseason polls and the sacrificial lambs in the MAC half the B1G conference games are two ranked B1G teams on prime time tv with announcers gushing B1G love
Bowls: B1G gets crushed and exposed, fans complain about playing in warm weather vs faster southern teams unfair


Ugly Truth: The B1G is basically the MAC in larger stadiums.

(01-04-2014 07:02 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Paper Tiger, thou hast a name, and thy name is B1G....

The bad comedy in all this is next year, like every year, the media/fans all get amnesia and like half the B1G will be ranked pre season, they will play a bunch of MAC teams, feel good about themselves, then conference starts and two top 10 B1G will play and the announcers will be in awe of these two "giants" slugging it out and then bowl season begins and the B1G gets crushed and we all laugh and say they are overrated and then it begins again the next year and next and next. It's the B1G wheel of life...

Life Cycle:
Preseason: Half B1G ranked
Early part of season: B1G teams feast on MAC schools and beat them by 40 in front of packed houses
Conference: Due to preseason polls and the sacrificial lambs in the MAC half the B1G conference games are two ranked B1G teams on prime time tv with announcers gushing B1G love
Bowls: B1G gets crushed and exposed, fans complain about playing in warm weather vs faster southern teams unfair


Ugly Truth: The B1G is basically the MAC in larger stadiums.

And we travel to our Bowl games, we beat teams like Stanford and Georgia, we pioneer such infrastructure as Conference Networks and we start the year with multiple teams in the top 25 rankings.

So yes, basically geographically speaking you are correct but in no other way Mr. Butthurt Cincy Bearcat fan.

Speaking of which...how did you guys do in your Bowl game against that superpower of football that you played?

Best part about Clemson's win over OSU was the fact we beat the Big Slow at it's own game. For all the homer talk you hear about how Big Slow teams field big, physical OL and play power football, it was a little ol' finesse team from the ACC who dominated both lines of scrimmage. We rushed for more yardage and protected our QB better. We did something the Big Slow was unable to do all year....tackle Carlos Hyde behind the line of scrimmage.

Oh, and don't get me wrong...we still were the faster team. Without our bone head mistakes keeping them in the game and more people are switching over to Fox to watch the Cotton Bowl.

Okay guys, let's be factual about the Big 10.

They are the top rated public Research Conference in the nation only surpassed by the Ivy League.

They are second in academic rating behind the ACC prior to the addition of Louisville and the subtraction of Maryland. That difference may have them claiming the top spot soon, but I haven't seen any figures to calculate that by yet.

They are one of two premier basketball conferences and a significant contributor to the Olympic sports.

Big 10 schools turn out more alumni than any of the other power conferences.

There are many other great things to say about the Big 10.

As to college football the claim that they are top to bottom the weakest of the P5 conferences may or may not be true. What is true is that their footprint is weak in top recruits compared to other regions of the country.

The demographic trends of the past 5 decades have taken their toll. Population shifts support this. It's not that they fail to grow, just that they don't grow as rapidly as other areas, the coastal Southeast or the West Coast for example. Consequently splitting their best recruits and attempting to recruit nationally has spread too many great prospects among too many schools for their numbers to be competitive with other regions.

That is why the Big 10 sells academics on both ends of the spectrum. Their research helps make up in part for the shifting population numbers which affect state tax bases. The research attracts top students. Therefore, like at Vanderbilt, it is the educational opportunity that entices out of state recruits who also have academic potential. Still that limits the pool. Although they all do still seek the standard athletes as well, that is where they are at a disadvantage because of geographical ties to family and local competition.

The Big 10 is a storied and tradition rich conference and if you are judging them across the board they are at or near the top in every category. That is why, IMO, they are so defensive about their football, which has the same great history and rich tradition that their academics have. But while their academics continue to lead, the icon of identity that the public cherishes, namely football, is a distant 4th and arguably could be 5th among the power conferences. If we were going on football alone they might well deserve the logo of B5G instead of B1G. But schools thankfully are not just football, so B1G is as apt a moniker as any.

One other issue. The Big 10 was the first to institute a network and all of the conferences pursuing one since have benefited from that pioneering role. But, what gets confusing about the conference networks and realignment are the motives behind them. For the Big 10 initially it was autonomy, both to try to set and then maximize their brand value in a dense market footprint. It was also seen as a tool to promote the member institutions. Then it was used to move them into other dense markets and nearer to those inside the beltway for political and economic advantages. I think it only a pipe dream of realignment junkies who put football first that the Big 10 really intends to spread its compact and cohesive footprint and culture into the deep Midwest or Southeast for the purposes of gaining recruits for 1 or 2 sports. Identity and cohesion are at stake if they miscalculate the results of such moves.

The SEC network is similar, but different. Our goal was not autonomy, but rather a better way to market an existing product which because of our somewhat limited market size had a large upside if we pushed the boundaries a bit. But we too, like the Big 10 have the benefit of a compact and cohesive footprint and culture. I doubt we seriously that we would consider a push into Pennsylvania or Ohio, and even Kansas would be quite the stretch because of the culture. But if Jim Delany and crew had not opened everyone's eyes to this we would all be making a lot less than we are currently and especially a lot less than we will make in the near future.

So let's lay off of the Big 10 bashing. When realignment is over it will be the rivalry not only of instate schools that will maximize all of our profits, but also the rivalry between conferences that will propel those profits even higher.

And remember they have six teams who could play competitively in any of our conferences.

Now on the other hand when Big 10 posters start bashing our football, or your football, or trolling us, then I say "let em have it!"

JR

(01-04-2014 07:28 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 07:02 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Paper Tiger, thou hast a name, and thy name is B1G....

The bad comedy in all this is next year, like every year, the media/fans all get amnesia and like half the B1G will be ranked pre season, they will play a bunch of MAC teams, feel good about themselves, then conference starts and two top 10 B1G will play and the announcers will be in awe of these two "giants" slugging it out and then bowl season begins and the B1G gets crushed and we all laugh and say they are overrated and then it begins again the next year and next and next. It's the B1G wheel of life...

Life Cycle:
Preseason: Half B1G ranked
Early part of season: B1G teams feast on MAC schools and beat them by 40 in front of packed houses
Conference: Due to preseason polls and the sacrificial lambs in the MAC half the B1G conference games are two ranked B1G teams on prime time tv with announcers gushing B1G love
Bowls: B1G gets crushed and exposed, fans complain about playing in warm weather vs faster southern teams unfair


Ugly Truth: The B1G is basically the MAC in larger stadiums.

And we travel to our Bowl games, we beat teams like Stanford and Georgia, we pioneer such infrastructure as Conference Networks and we start the year with multiple teams in the top 25 rankings.

So yes, basically geographically speaking you are correct but in no other way Mr. Butthurt Cincy Bearcat fan.

Speaking of which...how did you guys do in your Bowl game against that superpower of football that you played?

Excellent reply H1. Cincy fans, like other g5 fans, choose to bash a conference that will never take them. They know it deep down and it burns them so they lash out and say their bigger brothers suck.

I don't think the Big 10's decline is anything but cyclical. The demographics work against them, but some schools recruit nationally and they still dominate their own region. 10 years ago they were head to head with the SEC as the best football conference. The speed of the game and the predominance of speed in the South, the great increase in coach's and assitant's salaries and the facilities race-all of which they have been slow to adopt, have caused a decline. But they are catching up and have the resources to catch up in all these areas. 10 years ago a lot of people thought the ACC might become the preeminent football conference. But 1990-2005 was the aberration for them.

People look at a few years and think it is the trend forever. But when you look at long time lines, the Big 10 will be fine. The SEC will not always be the best football conference (although is unlikely to fall to where the ACC and B1G are right now).

The rapid growth in other regions of the US and the relatively slow growth of the North and Midwest are only going to detract from whatever advantages the BIG10 may enjoy. Schools and such mirror the decline and growth of the regions they are in.

(01-04-2014 10:04 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The rapid growth in other regions of the US and the relatively slow growth of the North and Midwest are only going to detract from whatever advantages the BIG10 may enjoy. Schools and such mirror the decline and growth of the regions they are in.

Here's your top 20 GDP growth rate countries. I hope they don't learn how to play American football.

1  Libya 104.5
2  Sierra Leone 19.7
3  Mongolia 12.3
4  Niger 11.2
4  Turks and Caicos Islands 11.2
6  Turkmenistan 11
7  Panama 10.7
8  Afghanistan 10.2
9  Macau 10
9  Timor-Leste 10
11  Cote d'Ivoire 9.8
12  Bhutan 9.7
13  Papua New Guinea 9.1
14  Iraq 8.4
14  Angola 8.4
16  Liberia 8.3
16  Laos 8.3
18  Uzbekistan 8.2
19  Burkina Faso 8
20  China 7.8

(01-04-2014 10:16 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:04 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The rapid growth in other regions of the US and the relatively slow growth of the North and Midwest are only going to detract from whatever advantages the BIG10 may enjoy. Schools and such mirror the decline and growth of the regions they are in.

Here's your top 20 GDP growth rate countries. I hope they don't learn how to play American football.

1  Libya 104.5
2  Sierra Leone 19.7
3  Mongolia 12.3
4  Niger 11.2
4  Turks and Caicos Islands 11.2
6  Turkmenistan 11
7  Panama 10.7
8  Afghanistan 10.2
9  Macau 10
9  Timor-Leste 10
11  Cote d'Ivoire 9.8
12  Bhutan 9.7
13  Papua New Guinea 9.1
14  Iraq 8.4
14  Angola 8.4
16  Liberia 8.3
16  Laos 8.3
18  Uzbekistan 8.2
19  Burkina Faso 8
20  China 7.8

Is that supposed to be some kind of response?

(01-04-2014 10:32 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Is that supposed to be some kind of response?

If your position is that decline is our destiny, then yes, that is my response. We should all be moving to one of the above countries.

(01-04-2014 10:16 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:04 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The rapid growth in other regions of the US and the relatively slow growth of the North and Midwest are only going to detract from whatever advantages the BIG10 may enjoy. Schools and such mirror the decline and growth of the regions they are in.

Here's your top 20 GDP growth rate countries. I hope they don't learn how to play American football.

1  Libya 104.5
2  Sierra Leone 19.7
3  Mongolia 12.3
4  Niger 11.2
4  Turks and Caicos Islands 11.2
6  Turkmenistan 11
7  Panama 10.7
8  Afghanistan 10.2
9  Macau 10
9  Timor-Leste 10
11  Cote d'Ivoire 9.8
12  Bhutan 9.7
13  Papua New Guinea 9.1
14  Iraq 8.4
14  Angola 8.4
16  Liberia 8.3
16  Laos 8.3
18  Uzbekistan 8.2
19  Burkina Faso 8
20  China 7.8

Well done. Probably too well done as most of these folks clamoring about "population growth" seem to think that such a simple point is a good one.

Oh my god! All the football players are moving South! All of the football fans are moving South!


It doesn't even make sense....

The big difference as I can attest to after having lived in multiple areas of the country is that in the South the kids start playing football at an earlier age in large numbers. They also play it for much more of the year. It is a bigger part of Southern Culture than it is in the North. That is starting to change but I doubt there will ever be parity in that regard.


What the Big Ten needs to do is pay it's coaches equally as what conferences like the SEC do. They need to fill out the coaching staff's fully and they need to commit to the arms race of the future which will be unrestrained recruiting. If the Big Ten is willing to do what it has been unwilling to previously do then there will be no problem.

(01-04-2014 10:36 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:32 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Is that supposed to be some kind of response?

If your position is that decline is our destiny, then yes, that is my response. We should all be moving to one of the above countries.

I should be more accurate, decline was a poor word choice.

The Midwest and North are just being outpaced. The "decline" is in the sense that the other parts of the country will, due to greater growth and such reach a parity. It's a decline in advantage.

(01-04-2014 10:38 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:36 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:32 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Is that supposed to be some kind of response?

If your position is that decline is our destiny, then yes, that is my response. We should all be moving to one of the above countries.

I should be more accurate, decline was a poor word choice.

The Midwest and North are just being outpaced. The "decline" is in the sense that the other parts of the country will, due to greater growth and such reach a parity. It's a decline in advantage.

So what?

We are already seeing it across the board wether it be in athletics, academics, research etc.

People are the real resource and where they go everything else follows.

Saying otherwise is just good old fashion denial.

(01-04-2014 10:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We are already seeing it across the board wether it be in athletics, academics, research etc.

People are the real resource and where they go everything else follows.

Saying otherwise is just good old fashion denial.

Yes, you are right. We are in denial that Big Ten schools are crumbling and falling apart due to the absolute tidal wave of people leaving the north.

Many of them leaving....don't have college educations. Many of those that do....are retired.

(01-04-2014 11:37 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We are already seeing it across the board wether it be in athletics, academics, research etc.

People are the real resource and where they go everything else follows.

Saying otherwise is just good old fashion denial.

Yes, you are right. We are in denial that Big Ten schools are crumbling and falling apart due to the absolute tidal wave of people leaving the north.

Many of them leaving....don't have college educations. Many of those that do....are retired.

And many like a couple of my relatives, couldn't find good professional jobs in the Midwest.

(01-04-2014 10:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  We are already seeing it across the board wether it be in athletics, academics, research etc.

People are the real resource and where they go everything else follows.

Saying otherwise is just good old fashion denial.

I assume when you say "we" you are not referring to Alabama and instead to the Midwest's growth issues. Yet... As for Alabama... Despite ranking 49th in private-sector growth(http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/201...ama_4.html) Alabama's football team is doing alright. 49th, yet all the talk is about the Midwest.

If B1G's football teams were performing a little better (after all, only Michigan really stunk up the bowl game), would that solve our real and perceived problems? Time to sell out and do whatever it takes to bring Texas and Oklahoma into the fold?

What if Florida and Texas decided to start conferences exclusive to their states? It would be a brilliant move actually. Maybe the Carolinas and Georgia could partner up. Where would that leave Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Tennessee, etc.? In better shape than Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, etc.?

We're already seeing growth in Texas and Florida fracture the hold that conferences once held on those states. UCF, USF, Houston, etc., will all be sharing bigger percentages of the pie. I'm not sure what's up with FIU, but many up-and-coming universities in Florida will be going after the same talent group, the same state funding dollars, national research grants, etc.

Moving on to North Carolina...(http://universityrelations.unc.edu/budge...isionsmade)

In fiscal 2011-2012, the University received a $100.7 million, or 17.9 percent, cut in permanent state appropriations. This fiscal year, that cut will be offset by $20 million transferred from UNC Health Care to help the University and the School of Medicine absorb the cuts.

What is up with that? How can that happen in a growth state? And why aren't we talking about that more. Denial, perhaps?

(01-04-2014 10:38 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Well done. Probably too well done as most of these folks clamoring about "population growth" seem to think that such a simple point is a good one.

Oh my god! All the football players are moving South! All of the football fans are moving South!


It doesn't even make sense....

The big difference as I can attest to after having lived in multiple areas of the country is that in the South the kids start playing football at an earlier age in large numbers. They also play it for much more of the year. It is a bigger part of Southern Culture than it is in the North. That is starting to change but I doubt there will ever be parity in that regard.


What the Big Ten needs to do is pay it's coaches equally as what conferences like the SEC do. They need to fill out the coaching staff's fully and they need to commit to the arms race of the future which will be unrestrained recruiting. If the Big Ten is willing to do what it has been unwilling to previously do then there will be no problem.

On top of that what needs to be done is HC's have their assistants and players to the local neighborhoods and host youth camps, if they're not already. High Schools should do more than just 7 on 7 competitions, such as spring football. Trying to pull classes strictly from the south is unreasonable due to costs. So efforts to get the Rust Belt back to the level it used to be is mandatory, or the local HS ball will continue to get worse. We still produce some very good talent up north, the pool isn't as deep as it used to be. Ohio and NJ still produces some quality kids.