(12-18-2013 11:16 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Oh and I doubt this is for every year and probably for every four years. So I can still see the B1G finding their way into Brooklyn as well.

BTW what happened to playing at MSG? I thought you guys could just take it from the Big East? I guess ESPN was wrong huh? Our contract was a little harder to break than originally thought huh?

The MSG isn't going to kick out the New Big East in favor of a rotation of the ACC, Big Ten, and who knows what. They've got accumulated brand equity with the Big East name, and even if there is a sufficient increase in prospective brand equity in becoming the annual site for the ACC or BigTen conference championship to justify trashing that existing brand equity ...

... being the annual site for either of those is not on offer, and being the occasional site just doesn't offer the same brand equity.

(12-18-2013 11:16 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Oh and I doubt this is for every year and probably for every four years. So I can still see the B1G finding their way into Brooklyn as well.

BTW what happened to playing at MSG? I thought you guys could just take it from the Big East? I guess ESPN was wrong huh? Our contract was a little harder to break than originally thought huh?

I was thinking the same thing on both points.

And IMHO, as for a rotation, if it's not MSG it's better to play it in Chicago or Indy.

(12-18-2013 11:51 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:48 AM)Maize Wrote:  DC is Central enough and accessible enough for the NC State, UNC, UVa, Syracuse, Louisville and Pitt fans to fill up the Verizon Center.

ACC basketball fans are rabid and will travel great lengths to see their teams, so that won't surprise me. But I don't think the Carolina schools will let that event ever stray very far from North Carolina for long. They never have in the past.

The Tobacco Road schools used to have a death grip when they voted together as a block. That is no longer the case.

(12-18-2013 11:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:16 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Oh and I doubt this is for every year and probably for every four years. So I can still see the B1G finding their way into Brooklyn as well.

BTW what happened to playing at MSG? I thought you guys could just take it from the Big East? I guess ESPN was wrong huh? Our contract was a little harder to break than originally thought huh?

The MSG isn't going to kick out the New Big East in favor of a rotation of the ACC, Big Ten, and who knows what. They've got accumulated brand equity with the Big East name, and even if there is a sufficient increase in prospective brand equity in becoming the annual site for the ACC or BigTen conference championship to justify trashing that existing brand equity ...

... being the annual site for either of those is not on offer, and being the occasional site just doesn't offer the same brand equity.

Oh I know that, just messing with the ACC posters who would taunt the BE posters about how they were just going to take the Garden away from us because they could get whatever they wanted. It was shot at those ACC posters, we all knew that we had a new contract signed after the C7 split until 2026 that could only be broken if we lost "key members".

(12-18-2013 12:44 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:51 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:48 AM)Maize Wrote:  DC is Central enough and accessible enough for the NC State, UNC, UVa, Syracuse, Louisville and Pitt fans to fill up the Verizon Center.

ACC basketball fans are rabid and will travel great lengths to see their teams, so that won't surprise me. But I don't think the Carolina schools will let that event ever stray very far from North Carolina for long. They never have in the past.

The Tobacco Road schools used to have a death grip when they voted together as a block. That is no longer the case.

4 out of 9 is a lot stronger than 4 out of 15.

(12-18-2013 11:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The MSG isn't going to kick out the New Big East in favor of a rotation of the ACC, Big Ten, and who knows what. They've got accumulated brand equity with the Big East name, and even if there is a sufficient increase in prospective brand equity in becoming the annual site for the ACC or BigTen conference championship to justify trashing that existing brand equity ...

... being the annual site for either of those is not on offer, and being the occasional site just doesn't offer the same brand equity.

The problem is the Big East is losing its identity as a northeast conference. All of its expansion candidates are outside the northeast, either located in the midwest or in the south. And without UConn, Syracuse and Louisville, the Big East doesn't have an elite basketball program like a Kentucky, Duke or Carolina.

(12-18-2013 01:03 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The MSG isn't going to kick out the New Big East in favor of a rotation of the ACC, Big Ten, and who knows what. They've got accumulated brand equity with the Big East name, and even if there is a sufficient increase in prospective brand equity in becoming the annual site for the ACC or BigTen conference championship to justify trashing that existing brand equity ...

... being the annual site for either of those is not on offer, and being the occasional site just doesn't offer the same brand equity.

The problem is the Big East is losing its identity as a northeast conference. All of its expansion candidates are outside the northeast, either located in the midwest or in the south. And without UConn, Syracuse and Louisville, the Big East doesn't have an elite basketball program like a Kentucky, Duke or Carolina.

1. We lost our northeast idenity years ago! Miami, USF, UofL, ND, Cincy etc etc etc...

2. Georgetown ring a bell? Still a pretty big name in the hoops world.

(12-18-2013 01:12 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 01:03 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The MSG isn't going to kick out the New Big East in favor of a rotation of the ACC, Big Ten, and who knows what. They've got accumulated brand equity with the Big East name, and even if there is a sufficient increase in prospective brand equity in becoming the annual site for the ACC or BigTen conference championship to justify trashing that existing brand equity ...

... being the annual site for either of those is not on offer, and being the occasional site just doesn't offer the same brand equity.

The problem is the Big East is losing its identity as a northeast conference. All of its expansion candidates are outside the northeast, either located in the midwest or in the south. And without UConn, Syracuse and Louisville, the Big East doesn't have an elite basketball program like a Kentucky, Duke or Carolina.

1. We lost our northeast idenity years ago! Miami, USF, UofL, ND, Cincy etc etc etc...

2. Georgetown ring a bell? Still a pretty big name in the hoops world.

The core of the old Big East conference was Georgetown, Syracuse, UConn, Villanova and Pittsburgh (like the four Carolina schools are the core of the ACC). You only have two remaining, and I'm sure Villanova regrets not upgrading its football program to BCS level.

The current Big East lineup has five midwestern schools and five northeast schools. Its most recognized program, Georgetown, hasn't been a serious contender since the 1980s. Its name rings hollow just like Maryland, the NCAA tournament champion in 2002. Neither school has been seriously relevant in years.

Btw, my older brother was a big St. John's fans when Lou Carnesecca was the head coach. If St. John's followed UConn in upgrading its football program years ago, than I'm sure it would be in the ACC now, by virtue of being located in NYC.

(12-18-2013 11:43 AM)Wedge Wrote:  How about Philadelphia for the Big Ten tournament?

I guess not impossible, but fairly unlikely in my opinion. The problem with east coast tournaments in general is that they are a lot further from most the fanbases. The more fans close by, the more you can charge for tickets (even if a game sells out regardless, you'd rather be able to charge 2x the price in one place vs. another) and more likely even the games involving teams on disappointing seasons will be fairly well attended.

There's obviously pluses to east coast tournaments as well. They bring attention to another part of the country, help develop fans in those areas, get you closer to the east media markets, etc. All in all though, I suspect the conference will be of the mindset that New York is worth the extra distance every once and awhile while Philadelphia is not.

(12-18-2013 01:41 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 01:12 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 01:03 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:55 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The MSG isn't going to kick out the New Big East in favor of a rotation of the ACC, Big Ten, and who knows what. They've got accumulated brand equity with the Big East name, and even if there is a sufficient increase in prospective brand equity in becoming the annual site for the ACC or BigTen conference championship to justify trashing that existing brand equity ...

... being the annual site for either of those is not on offer, and being the occasional site just doesn't offer the same brand equity.

The problem is the Big East is losing its identity as a northeast conference. All of its expansion candidates are outside the northeast, either located in the midwest or in the south. And without UConn, Syracuse and Louisville, the Big East doesn't have an elite basketball program like a Kentucky, Duke or Carolina.

1. We lost our northeast idenity years ago! Miami, USF, UofL, ND, Cincy etc etc etc...

2. Georgetown ring a bell? Still a pretty big name in the hoops world.

The core of the old Big East conference was Georgetown, Syracuse, UConn, Villanova and Pittsburgh (like the four Carolina schools are the core of the ACC). You only have two remaining, and I'm sure Villanova regrets not upgrading its football program to BCS level.

The current Big East lineup has five midwestern schools and five northeast schools. Its most recognized program, Georgetown, hasn't been a serious contender since the 1980s. Its name rings hollow just like Maryland, the NCAA tournament champion in 2002. Neither school has been seriously relevant in years.

Btw, my older brother was a big St. John's fans when Lou Carnesecca was the head coach. If St. John's followed UConn in upgrading its football program years ago, than I'm sure it would be in the ACC now, by virtue of being located in NYC.

Villanova regrets not moving up? You mean like UConn? They could be stuck in a glorified CUSA making less money with an increased amount of expenses. I think it's the other way around, I think they are glad they didn't and that UConn regrets moving up.

Georgetown won a share of the BE regular season title last year and has been to a FF in the last decade. How is that irrelevant? Marquette also won a share of the Big East title last year and also been to a FF in the last decade and has a great coach in Buzz Williams. Nova has FF in the last decade and is a top ten team right now. How are they irrelevant? How about Butlers 2 National Championship game appearances? Irrelevant? Only to those who don't know what they are talking about.

This is a huge, huge capitulation for the ACC to be conceding MSG. There's really no other way to spin this. Huge, huge concession. Wow.

Bilas, Coach K and the ACC have been claiming MSG as an inevitable ACC grab for the past year, against the Big East's claims of an air-tight MSG deal through 2026.

Also, the Red Storm and everyone else has always used "St. John's" since forever (like on their uniforms), compared to the Billikens, who have specifically asked to be referred to as "Saint Louis" (like on their uniforms).

(12-18-2013 02:49 PM)billyjack Wrote:  This is a huge, huge capitulation for the ACC to be conceding MSG. There's really no other way to spin this. Huge, huge concession. Wow.

With both tourney's in town at the same time, and Syracuse playing in Brooklyn, it could be an interesting dynamic to see which one is more popular.

the real question is if ACC brings in more viewers & fans to Barclays then BE; how does MSG respond when BE contract is over...

(12-18-2013 02:54 PM)Gopper Wrote:  the real question is if ACC brings in more viewers & fans to Barclays then BE; how does MSG respond when BE contract is over...

Well seeing as thats 13 years from now that decision is a long way off. The ACC can look a LOT different in 13 years when the GoR's start to end.

(12-18-2013 02:51 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 02:49 PM)billyjack Wrote:  This is a huge, huge capitulation for the ACC to be conceding MSG. There's really no other way to spin this. Huge, huge concession. Wow.

With both tourney's in town at the same time, and Syracuse playing in Brooklyn, it could be an interesting dynamic to see which one is more popular.

Both will do great and both will sell out, but nothing beats MSG.

(12-18-2013 11:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 10:22 AM)esayem Wrote:  The A10 has it for just a few years right? I imagine their next move would be to D.C. Anybody have any thoughts/input?

When Maryland was in the ACC, they frequently sought to have the tourney in DC due to the overwhelming home court and refereeing advantage the Carolina schools had at the Carolina venues. They had very infrequent luck with that.

Now that the ACC has expanded north, expect the ACC tourney in NYC from time to time but it would shock me if it ever moves for very many years away from the state of North Carolina. It was hard enough getting it into Atlanta and Tampa on occasion. And why put it in DC at all after 2016? That's no longer ACC country.

I was asking how the A10 would respond.

(12-18-2013 11:46 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:39 AM)Maize Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 10:22 AM)esayem Wrote:  The A10 has it for just a few years right? I imagine their next move would be to D.C. Anybody have any thoughts/input?

When Maryland was in the ACC, they frequently sought to have the tourney in DC due to the overwhelming home court and refereeing advantage the Carolina schools had at the Carolina venues. They had very infrequent luck with that.

Now that the ACC has expanded north, expect the ACC tourney in NYC from time to time but it would shock me if it ever moves for very many years away from the state of North Carolina. It was hard enough getting it into Atlanta and Tampa on occasion. And why put it in DC at all after 2016? That's no longer ACC country.

Virginia and Virginia Tech bleed into DC and you know it...you lived there and I was stationed there at Walter Reed...tell that to someone that doesn't know better...

They bleed into DC, but not at the levels needed to put on the tournament. Not IMO. But we'll see.

You realize Cuse has a ton of fans in the DC area? Why do you think GTown tries so hard to keep us out?

(12-18-2013 12:44 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:51 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 11:48 AM)Maize Wrote:  DC is Central enough and accessible enough for the NC State, UNC, UVa, Syracuse, Louisville and Pitt fans to fill up the Verizon Center.

ACC basketball fans are rabid and will travel great lengths to see their teams, so that won't surprise me. But I don't think the Carolina schools will let that event ever stray very far from North Carolina for long. They never have in the past.

The Tobacco Road schools used to have a death grip when they voted together as a block. That is no longer the case.

Numerically, the Carolina bloc has been diluted, for sure. But nevertheless, especially concerning basketball, it seems like the rest of the conference will still largely defer to their wishes. Beggars belief that the ACC will ever do anything basketball-wise that Duke and UNC don't want done.

The ACC had there chance to get msg but wouldn't commit to the number of years msg wanted( 4 or 5 years straight), as oppose to the acc which wants to do a rotation, so msg decided to re-up with the bigeast. For the next decade or so id expect the acc to do something like this

14-Greensboro *
15- Greensboro *
16-Washington DC *
17- Atlanta or Charlotte
18-Barclays
19-Greensboro
20-Greensboro
21-Washington DC
22-Atlanta or Charlotte
23-Barclays
24-Greensboro
25-Greensboro
26- Washington DC

*= already announced

Right, in ACC fantasy land, MSG was begging for the ACC, but you know, the ACC just wasn't into them. It had nothing to do with a 12 year Big East contract that is rock solid. Are you guys for real or are you just messin with us?

Big East Men's Basketball Tournament Sites:
2014: MSG.
2015: MSG.
2016: MSG.
2017: MSG.
2018: MSG.
2019: MSG.
2020: MSG.
2021: MSG.
2022: MSG.
2023: MSG.
2024: MSG.
2025: MSG.
2026: MSG.

In 2026:
Rick Pitino will turn 73.
Roy Williams will turn 75.
Mike Krzyzewski will turn 79.
Jim Boeheim will turn 82.

Meanwhile, every human sports fan over at least the last 60 years has referred to the school in Queens as "St. John's", the school in the top-10 in all time in wins, yet we're I guess supposed to nod our heads like dunces in agreement on the "Saint" thing.

At the same time, we have a site moderator pissing on fellow American citizens of one of the world's greatest cities, located in the greatest country in the world, the city that welcomed our ancestors as they fled hellholes around the world... and no one really has a problem with that...? ... wow, this site has gone completely off its rails...