https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/four-tho...posal-ncaa
It's a really interesting read. A couple takeaways for me:
- Matt thinks Baker made this proposal to get people to actually start talking about in PUBLIC things that they previously would only talk about in PRIVATE. ie, ADs would tell Matt their thoughts on the subject in the past, but it was always off the record.
- This proposal is meant to show Congress that the NCAA is serious about reform, but they still need Congress' help to prevent an endless stream of litigation.
Anyone interested in the Baker proposal should read Matt's column. Good stuff.
yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
(12-11-2023 02:40 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone interested in the Baker proposal should read Matt's column. Good stuff.
Amazing work on this.
More good stuff from Matt.
It stimulated some thinking.
One idea:
Exempt NCAA Division II, III and NAIA athletes from being viewed as employees.
Give the NCAA an anti-trust exemption to limit salaries in Division I sports other than men's and women's basketball and football.
Exempt salaries and NIL (but not other benefits) from Title IX for men's and women's basketball and football.
Exempt broadcast rights from consideration as NIL other than for men's and women's basketball and football.
What is happening is that football and basketball are blowing up the whole model and will wreck sports for the non-rev athletes. So pull them out.
Division II, III and NAIA are not making any money off the athletes, just trying to reduce their net costs. There are probably no women's sports that make money. Maybe a handful of hockey or baseball programs make money, but maybe not. And if you throw in facility costs, they all lose money. The athletes are already getting more than their market value in compensation. There are professional alternatives for those who do have value and they get on the pro tours.
(12-11-2023 02:12 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/four-tho...posal-ncaa
It's a really interesting read. A couple takeaways for me:
- Matt thinks Baker made this proposal to get people to actually start talking about in PUBLIC things that they previously would only talk about in PRIVATE. ie, ADs would tell Matt their thoughts on the subject in the past, but it was always off the record.
- This proposal is meant to show Congress that the NCAA is serious about reform, but they still need Congress' help to prevent an endless stream of litigation.
It’s hard see Congress getting involved. If Congress does get involved, they’ll make things worse.
(12-11-2023 05:08 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 02:12 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/four-tho...posal-ncaa
It's a really interesting read. A couple takeaways for me:
- Matt thinks Baker made this proposal to get people to actually start talking about in PUBLIC things that they previously would only talk about in PRIVATE. ie, ADs would tell Matt their thoughts on the subject in the past, but it was always off the record.
- This proposal is meant to show Congress that the NCAA is serious about reform, but they still need Congress' help to prevent an endless stream of litigation.
It’s hard see Congress getting involved. If Congress does get involved, they’ll make things worse.
It's hard to see the NCAA continuing to exist at all without Congressional action. There's too much money out there now. The kids deserve their fair share, but all of the leeches on top of that want more than a fair share (of which they deserve zero) and will continually attempt to sue all schools into oblivion if Congress doesn't get involved at some point. Not today, or tomorrow, or next year, but eventually the leeches could completely destroy not just D1 CFB, but all officially sanctioned sports at all schools. Nothing will stop them now that they've seen how much they can squeeze out with a little favorable court ruling here, or a ham-fisted scandal response there. It would be pretty ironic if all those Billion$ in endowments at so many major Universities around the country end up getting spent on attorneys and leeches instead of helping to educate future generations.
(12-11-2023 03:01 PM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
Why do you find that funny?
(12-11-2023 06:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 03:01 PM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
Why do you find that funny?
I don't think Matt is being realistic there. The coaches actually are a real market.
(12-11-2023 07:11 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 06:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 03:01 PM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
Why do you find that funny?
I don't think Matt is being realistic there. The coaches actually are a real market.
The pot of money is finite. If pay for play costs $6M that has to come from somewhere. Some will be new funding, but the vast majority of programs will need to make cuts. Salaries are much easier than facility cuts.
(12-11-2023 08:25 PM)clunk Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 07:11 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 06:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 03:01 PM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
Why do you find that funny?
I don't think Matt is being realistic there. The coaches actually are a real market.
The pot of money is finite. If pay for play costs $6M that has to come from somewhere. Some will be new funding, but the vast majority of programs will need to make cuts. Salaries are much easier than facility cuts.
They will cut non-rev sports.
(12-11-2023 07:11 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 06:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 03:01 PM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
Why do you find that funny?
I don't think Matt is being realistic there. The coaches actually are a real market.
Not really. The salaries only escalate at this level *because they cannot pay the players*. College assistant and administrator salaries are substantially above those in the NFL...that is a market mistake that will be corrected.
(12-11-2023 03:17 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]More good stuff from Matt.
It stimulated some thinking.
One idea:
Exempt NCAA Division II, III and NAIA athletes from being viewed as employees.
Give the NCAA an anti-trust exemption to limit salaries in Division I sports other than men's and women's basketball and football.
Exempt salaries and NIL (but not other benefits) from Title IX for men's and women's basketball and football.
Exempt broadcast rights from consideration as NIL other than for men's and women's basketball and football.
What is happening is that football and basketball are blowing up the whole model and will wreck sports for the non-rev athletes. So pull them out.
Division II, III and NAIA are not making any money off the athletes, just trying to reduce their net costs. There are probably no women's sports that make money. Maybe a handful of hockey or baseball programs make money, but maybe not. And if you throw in facility costs, they all lose money. The athletes are already getting more than their market value in compensation. There are professional alternatives for those who do have value and they get on the pro tours.
Those athletes will start suing as well to get money as well as employees. Like I said, the judge ruled against the NCAA as a whole which includes D2 and D3. There are D2 and D3 and NAIA athletes are getting NILs as we speak.
(12-11-2023 11:48 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 07:11 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 06:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 03:01 PM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
Why do you find that funny?
I don't think Matt is being realistic there. The coaches actually are a real market.
Not really. The salaries only escalate at this level *because they cannot pay the players*. College assistant and administrator salaries are substantially above those in the NFL...that is a market mistake that will be corrected.
Head coaches have made more in the NFL. I didn't realize assistants have gotten higher than the NFL. I did know they have escalated rapidly. Still don't think they are related. Gold plating locker rooms-yes. Its a way to recruit without paying directly.
(12-11-2023 07:11 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 06:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 03:01 PM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
Why do you find that funny?
I don't think Matt is being realistic there. The coaches actually are a real market.
Markets don't only push prices up ... as we found out in the over-heated residential housing markets in 2008, even markets that have been pushing prices up for decades can also push prices down when the conditions change.
If you increase the player-acquisition costs for the P4 schools, you are going to see coaches salaries drop, exactly because they
are set on a "real market".
And the market sets the price that it does because Athletic Departments are non-profit enterprises, so the top level schools have to generate costs close to their revenues, and the chase after the best coaches is an arms race that soaks up those revenues.
______________
(12-11-2023 08:54 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]... They will cut non-rev sports.
They just recently put a higher floor on how many scholarships they have to have to be FBS. For a lot of mid-tier and lower-tier P4 schools, they won't have a lot of money they can save by cutting sports.
(12-11-2023 06:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 03:01 PM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
Why do you find that funny?
Do you honestly think that programs who are being paid north of $70M per year from just television won't continue a coaching salary arms race? It's a ridiculous take. Even after paying the players the programs are going to still have money to burn.
(12-12-2023 07:06 AM)BruceMcF Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 07:11 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 06:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 03:01 PM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
Why do you find that funny?
I don't think Matt is being realistic there. The coaches actually are a real market.
Markets don't only push prices up ... as we found out in the over-heated residential housing markets in 2008, even markets that have been pushing prices up for decades can also push prices down when the conditions change.
If you increase the player-acquisition costs for the P4 schools, you are going to see coaches salaries drop, exactly because they are set on a "real market".
And the market sets the price that it does because Athletic Departments are non-profit enterprises, so the top level schools have to generate costs close to their revenues, and the chase after the best coaches is an arms race that soaks up those revenues.
______________
(12-11-2023 08:54 PM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ]... They will cut non-rev sports.
They just recently put a higher floor on how many scholarships they have to have to be FBS. For a lot of mid-tier and lower-tier P4 schools, they won't have a lot of money they can save by cutting sports.
I think what we have seen since the schools are not for profit tax payer subsidized entities that the market doesn't control a lot of things. A bunch of schools would have dropped sports, but they are charging the students or taxpayers. That is one of my problems with a lot of these proposals. The schools aren't constrained by profit and loss and overburdened students and taxpayers are paying for their decisions.
As for cutting sports, the P4 will go down to the minimum. Other schools will be forced to drop down or drop out.
P4 Football and basketball players will benefit Some other FBS players will benefit. A number of P4 non-revs will benefit. All other schools, students, taxpayers and potential non-rev scholarship athletes will bear the cost.
It certainly won't be head coaches who are winning and creating revenue.
(12-12-2023 10:43 AM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 06:05 PM)dbackjon Wrote: [ -> ] (12-11-2023 03:01 PM)b2b Wrote: [ -> ] yeah, ok
Quote:You cannot pay a defensive coordinator close to two million dollars in a world where you also need to pay players. You cannot pay the strength coach $500,000, have three ex-coaches serve as analysts who pull down $105,000 a year, have two chief-of-staff type guys making six figures, and a head coach making seven million. Salaries for coaches, assistant coaches, athletic directors, and senior staff are going to come down. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart probably don’t need to take a pay cut…but almost everybody else will.
Why do you find that funny?
Do you honestly think that programs who are being paid north of $70M per year from just television won't continue a coaching salary arms race? It's a ridiculous take. Even after paying the players the programs are going to still have money to burn.
Right now, they do have money to burn. At some point, they will not. Even if Alabama can afford a $3 million coordinator, the value likely is not there. Would be more productive to spend on athletes.