Power 5 wins by G5 Conferences thus far:
American (1)
Rice over Houston
Mountain West (4)
Fresno over Purdue
Wyoming over Texas Tech
Fresno over Arizona State
UNLV over Vandy
Sun Belt (3)
JMU over Virginia
Texas State over Baylor
South Bama over Oklahoma State
MAC (3)
Northern Illinois over BC
Ohio over Iowa State
Miami over Cincinnati
CUSA (0)
This isn’t a good look for the conference and brings validation to the doubters’ opinions about CUSA’s strength… or lack of. Sure, some of it relies on scheduling coincidence and things decided years in advance. We don’t have as many opportunities as, say, the SBC or AAC. But in terms of perception, computer ratings, media attention, stealing a game or two from a big time football school remains important and we haven’t seen that thus far from CUSA, which is disappointing. Have also noticed that no CUSA school has hosted a P5 opponent. It doesn’t look like any will visit our schools next year, either. I was told coming in that G5 schools hosting P5 programs was common, and it seems to be… in every league except this one. Another place we’ll need to do some catching up.
SHSU and LT need to step up this weekend for the good of the conference.
(09-18-2023 11:04 AM)EatEmUp11 Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, some of it relies on scheduling coincidence and things decided years in advance.
Sample size is a huge part of this. UTEP got to play NW, but generally speaking we didn't get to play BC or Iowa St. or Houston.
We don’t have as many opportunities as, say, the SBC or AAC.
Yeah, we have fewer teams so we have fewer P5 games so we have fewer chances to win one.
I was told coming in that G5 schools hosting P5 programs was common, and it seems to be… in every league except this one.
Who told you that? They lied.
It's not at all common to host P5 teams.
Unfortunately Liberty doesn't have any P5's on the schedule for a few years due to having to get rid of so many games while joining CUSA. And I think a lot of our teams were playing top FBS teams like Ohio State and Alabama. I think we can also look at another metric though.
Here is each conference vs. Power Fives and vs. FCS teams:
AAC vs. Power 5: 1-11
AAC vs. FCS: 10-0
CUSA vs. Power 5: 0-5
CUSA vs. FCS: 7-0
MAC vs. Power 5: 3-15
MAC vs. FCS: 9-2 (almost lost more)
Mountain West vs. Power 5: 4-17
Mountain West vs. FCS: 10-1
Sun Belt vs. Power 5: 3-9
Sun Belt vs. FCS: 13-0
The reality is, we have less teams and have had less chances at Power Five teams, especially lesser ones. Liberty, one of the top two teams, hasn't had a chance at anyone, and WKU drew Ohio State. MTSU nearly beat Missouri. Yes, the MAC beat 3 Power 5 teams, but they also lost to two FCS teams and almost lost to a lot more.
(09-18-2023 11:28 AM)inutech Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023 11:04 AM)EatEmUp11 Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, some of it relies on scheduling coincidence and things decided years in advance.
Sample size is a huge part of this. UTEP got to play NW, but generally speaking we didn't get to play BC or Iowa St. or Houston.
We don’t have as many opportunities as, say, the SBC or AAC.
Yeah, we have fewer teams so we have fewer P5 games so we have fewer chances to win one.
I was told coming in that G5 schools hosting P5 programs was common, and it seems to be… in every league except this one.
Who told you that? They lied.
It's not at all common to host P5 teams.
Someone here iirc. Maybe they meant G5 schools at large and not necessarily CUSA programs, which could be. 7 Mountain West schools and 5 American schools have P5 home games this year.
(09-18-2023 11:54 AM)EatEmUp11 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023 11:28 AM)inutech Wrote: [ -> ]It's not at all common to host P5 teams.
Someone here iirc. Maybe they meant G5 schools at large and not necessarily CUSA programs, which could be. 7 Mountain West schools and 5 American schools have P5 home games this year.
It is rare for G5 teams to host P5 teams.
The new Big 12 teams would already have had schedules made.
And the MWC tended to get more because the Pac-12 teams have traditionally been more willing to play them (even with a 9-game conference schedule).
But it's still far from common.
(09-18-2023 11:54 AM)EatEmUp11 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023 11:28 AM)inutech Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023 11:04 AM)EatEmUp11 Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, some of it relies on scheduling coincidence and things decided years in advance.
Sample size is a huge part of this. UTEP got to play NW, but generally speaking we didn't get to play BC or Iowa St. or Houston.
We don’t have as many opportunities as, say, the SBC or AAC.
Yeah, we have fewer teams so we have fewer P5 games so we have fewer chances to win one.
I was told coming in that G5 schools hosting P5 programs was common, and it seems to be… in every league except this one.
Who told you that? They lied.
It's not at all common to host P5 teams.
Someone here iirc. Maybe they meant G5 schools at large and not necessarily CUSA programs, which could be. 7 Mountain West schools and 5 American schools have P5 home games this year.
We have Duke at home in 2025. It’s not “common” but it’s not uncommon. Really it boils down to location and if there are lower end geographical P5 teams in the area trying to save money and/or recruiting. For example, ODU is in one of the most fertile recruiting places in the country. They also have pretty much all of the ACC teams in close driving range. They will get a lot of P5 teams to come there just to recruit and save money. Also, you’ll see a good amount of P5 teams that will agree to 2 for 1s then buyout out the return game (Missouri did it to us last year). I’d expect y’all to see someone like Texas Tech on the schedule eventually but you can count on Texas and Texas A&M never coming to town.
Before we had to drop our awesome schedules moving forward to join CUSA, we traditionally had at least one P5 schedued at home every year for the next decade. Indy status gave us more flexibiity on 2-for-1 deals. But it can happen ... until you start winning too much. Everyone wants to play FCS call-ups to meet bowl eligibility requirements until upsets start happening. We have learned that the hard way at Liberty.
Re: P5s visiting G5s...
I've mentioned it before as one of the things I'm most looking forward to as an FBS member, whenever/if ever it happens for JSU. But let me temper that with some reality, in case my past comments were misinterpreted:
1) It's not at all "common" ... but it does happen. Usually, it's part of a 2-for-1 or even 3-for-1 arrangement, so even if your G5 school signs a deal to bring a P5 to town, realistically, it could only be a once-or-twice-per-decade occurrence. That frequency can increase for some schools due to certain factors, such as having a large stadium size (30K-plus), location in a recruiting hotbed, or even having a top-tier basketball program (i.e., the football visit is tied in some way to bringing your hoops to their place). But for most G5s, it's a rare but not unheard of occurrence.
2) "P5" should never, in ANY case, be interpreted as "legitimate National Championship contender". Using my own school as an example, Jax State could someday feasibly land a P5 home game against, say Mississippi State or Georgia Tech. But Auburn? Alabama? UGA? FSU? No, no, no, no. That's never going to happen. Just as there are tiers within FBS, there are tiers within the P5, and even within conferences like the SEC and Big Ten. Schools in those lower-to-mid tiers *might* be convinced to visit your G5 school. The other half of the conference will never stoop so low, and the higher up the food chain you go, the less likely it becomes, regardless of your stadium size, the fertility of the recruiting area surrounding your school, or how highly ranked your hoops team might be.
One additional note, when it comes to conferences' relative success against P5s... if CUSA plays 10 games against upper tier P5 programs and Conference X plays 10 games against low tier P5 programs, our record will probably be 0-for-10. Conference X may go 3-for-10 or better. Does that make Conference X better? Not at all. It'd only be a valid metric if CUSA and Conference X were playing the same set of P5 teams, and that's not what's happening.
(09-18-2023 12:38 PM)SlyFox Wrote: [ -> ]Before we had to drop our awesome schedules moving forward to join CUSA, we traditionally had at least one P5 schedued at home every year for the next decade. Indy status gave us more flexibiity on 2-for-1 deals. But it can happen ... until you start winning too much. Everyone wants to play FCS call-ups to meet bowl eligibility requirements until upsets start happening. We have learned that the hard way at Liberty.
Liberty folks keep talking about all these great schedules. Yet Liberty and NMSU played each other twice in a season at least 2 times. Was that great scheduling?
(09-18-2023 11:30 AM)sstaedtler88 Wrote: [ -> ]Mountain West vs. Power 5: 3-9
Mountain West vs. FCS: 13-0
for MWC, current W/L is 4-17 vs P5 and 10-1 vs. FCS
FCS Idaho beat Nevada 33-6.
Fresno State needed 2OT to beat FCS Eastern Washington, 34-31.
P5 wins:
@UNLV 40, Vanderbilt 37
2OT: @Wyoming 35, Texas Tech 33
Fresno State 39, @Purdue 35
Fresno State 29, @Arizona State 0
Pojo - That was back when we had literally weeks to fill a schedule during our transition and NMSU was just as desperate. That was a temporary bandaid. Even still, in one of those two years Liberty hosted Syracuse of the ACC.
Dropping the terrific schedules that we had was necessary in order to gain access to the playoff system. It wasn't without some remorse. But that is water under the bridge.
(09-18-2023 02:46 PM)SlyFox Wrote: [ -> ]Pojo - That was back when we had literally weeks to fill a schedule during our transition and NMSU was just as desperate. That was a temporary bandaid. Even still, in one of those two years Liberty hosted Syracuse of the ACC.
Dropping the terrific schedules that we had was necessary in order to gain access to the playoff system. It wasn't without some remorse. But that is water under the bridge.
If it was water under the bridge, it wouldn't come up every week.
On P5 home games: By no means would I ever expect a Texas/TAMU/LSU to travel to a Conference USA school again, let alone Sam Houston State. Of course, there is a hierarchy among the P5 schools. But the brand is uniform and significant, and it holds value completely regardless of year to year national competitiveness. For example, at Sam, I’m sure it would be a HUGE deal if we could land a game with a Baylor or a Texas Tech type team from the Big 12. Are those teams the Longhorns or Aggies? No. But they’re notable college football teams from a long-standing major (now formerly) regional conference nonetheless. That has value. That brings out fans, helps drive donations and upgrades, helps recruiting, etc. Even if it’s not ‘Bama or The U or Ohio State. Marshall has Virginia Tech coming to town next week. Sure, the Hokies aren’t very good and haven’t won much in years now. Don’t think Marshall fans care, though. It’s a nearby ACC school. Hosting them IS validation.
One to two P5 home games per decade sounds reasonable, if not obtainable for most G5s with a decent location and reasonable facilities. For example, I know Texas State has hosted Tech, Baylor and Houston since going FBS. But in a conference of nine (ten soon) teams, going two straight years without one indicates that this isn’t a reality right now for CUSA.
Yes, my expectations for the new conference were maybe too high and simply could’ve been avoided by checking the schedules ahead of time. I had the expectation that it would happen more often. And it clearly does for some programs, as there are inequalities among G5 programs (P5 schools are more inclined to visit UNLV or Boise than LaTech or WKU). But, even if it isn’t a norm in CUSA, two over the course of three years seems pretty sad.
(09-18-2023 02:30 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023 12:38 PM)SlyFox Wrote: [ -> ]Before we had to drop our awesome schedules moving forward to join CUSA, we traditionally had at least one P5 schedued at home every year for the next decade. Indy status gave us more flexibiity on 2-for-1 deals. But it can happen ... until you start winning too much. Everyone wants to play FCS call-ups to meet bowl eligibility requirements until upsets start happening. We have learned that the hard way at Liberty.
Liberty folks keep talking about all these great schedules. Yet Liberty and NMSU played each other twice in a season at least 2 times. Was that great scheduling?
Only once while we were fully FBS. That was our 1st year. But last year, we played Wake Forest, BYU, Va. Tech, and Arkansas. We had multiple games lined up with North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, and Virginia and one with UCF that all got canceled with joining CUSA, a tough pill to swallow.
(09-18-2023 02:38 PM)Cardiff Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023 11:30 AM)sstaedtler88 Wrote: [ -> ]Mountain West vs. Power 5: 3-9
Mountain West vs. FCS: 13-0
for MWC, current W/L is 4-17 vs P5 and 10-1 vs. FCS
FCS Idaho beat Nevada 33-6.
Fresno State needed 2OT to beat FCS Eastern Washington, 34-31.
P5 wins:
@UNLV 40, Vanderbilt 37
2OT: @Wyoming 35, Texas Tech 33
Fresno State 39, @Purdue 35
Fresno State 29, @Arizona State 0
I copied down the wrong numbers., You are correct. Went back and changed it.
Fresno beats 2 P5 school but needed OT over an FCS interesting
(09-18-2023 03:26 PM)sstaedtler88 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023 02:30 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023 12:38 PM)SlyFox Wrote: [ -> ]Before we had to drop our awesome schedules moving forward to join CUSA, we traditionally had at least one P5 schedued at home every year for the next decade. Indy status gave us more flexibiity on 2-for-1 deals. But it can happen ... until you start winning too much. Everyone wants to play FCS call-ups to meet bowl eligibility requirements until upsets start happening. We have learned that the hard way at Liberty.
Liberty folks keep talking about all these great schedules. Yet Liberty and NMSU played each other twice in a season at least 2 times. Was that great scheduling?
Only once while we were fully FBS. That was our 1st year. But last year, we played Wake Forest, BYU, Va. Tech, and Arkansas. We had multiple games lined up with North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, and Virginia and one with UCF that all got canceled with joining CUSA, a tough pill to swallow.
It happened twice: 2018 and 2019.
2018 was our transition year and 2019 was our first as an FBS member. We scheduled both home-and-home in-season combos at the same time when we both needed a minimum of 5 FBS home games to meet NCAA requirements. It was a once in a blue moon experience based on highly unusual circumstances that will likely never be repeated..
(09-18-2023 12:04 PM)inutech Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023 11:54 AM)EatEmUp11 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-18-2023 11:28 AM)inutech Wrote: [ -> ]It's not at all common to host P5 teams.
Someone here iirc. Maybe they meant G5 schools at large and not necessarily CUSA programs, which could be. 7 Mountain West schools and 5 American schools have P5 home games this year.
It is rare for G5 teams to host P5 teams.
The new Big 12 teams would already have had schedules made.
And the MWC tended to get more because the Pac-12 teams have traditionally been more willing to play them (even with a 9-game conference schedule).
But it's still far from common.
It's really not anywhere near as rare as you're trying to make it. App and GSU had UNC last year, Marshall has VT at home this week, ODU had Wake Forest at home this past week, quite a few others I saw. eee