BY should be ecstatic about the western additions, but it doesn't bode well for the future of schools like WVU and UCF long term. Obviously, it's not his problem and entirely up to these schools to adjust to the daunting travel demands and scheduling. But it's very unsustainable. If you look at the map, the Big 12 is basically a grander SWC (which is awesome), but I'd try to negotiate out if I were UCF/WVU as soon as FSU pulls the trigger.
WV has been an island for a decade. Right now that's the least of their worries.
UConn made a lot of bad decisions with their football program. And for that they have no one but themselves to blame.
(08-16-2023 07:43 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]BY should be ecstatic about the western additions, but it doesn't bode well for the future of schools like WVU and UCF long term. Obviously, it's not his problem and entirely up to these schools to adjust to the daunting travel demands and scheduling. But it's very unsustainable. If you look at the map, the Big 12 is basically a grander SWC (which is awesome), but I'd try to negotiate out if I were UCF/WVU as soon as FSU pulls the trigger.
Border Conference 2.0....Border Conference Supreme.
(08-16-2023 07:43 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]BY should be ecstatic about the western additions, but it doesn't bode well for the future of schools like WVU and UCF long term. Obviously, it's not his problem and entirely up to these schools to adjust to the daunting travel demands and scheduling. But it's very unsustainable. If you look at the map, the Big 12 is basically a grander SWC (which is awesome), but I'd try to negotiate out if I were UCF/WVU as soon as FSU pulls the trigger.
If it's just FSU leaving, then the ACC is preferable.
But what are the odds that FSU is the only defection? UNC is also coveted by both the Big Ten and the SEC. UNC isn't going to sit idly while FSU makes 3x the money they do.
At that point, the ACC will probably be worth less per-school than the Big 12. Thus, the Big 12 will be able to cherry pick the best remaining ACC schools the same way they did with the PAC. This will allow WVU/UC/UCF to add schools to create an Eastern Pod that will be stronger in football than any version of the Big East.
(08-16-2023 07:47 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote: [ -> ]WV has been an island for a decade. Right now that's the least of their worries.
Agree, unless the B12 wishes to let WV and UCF go they are not going to ACC. Similar money with huge buy outs and GOR. It isn't anything like what FSU it trying to do.
ACC is a better fit, but that ship has sailed.
(08-16-2023 10:00 AM)goodknightfl Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023 07:47 AM)Bear Catlett Wrote: [ -> ]WV has been an island for a decade. Right now that's the least of their worries.
Agree, unless the B12 wishes to let WV and UCF go they are not going to ACC. Similar money with huge buy outs and GOR. It isn't anything like what FSU it trying to do.
ACC is a better fit, but that ship has sailed.
And UCF (and UC) have been spread out like the B12 is for the last 10+ years. I don't think they will blink an eye.
This is the great news for like 90% of Uconn fans.
Half of them was like no to the Big 12 no matter what.
40% was like I don't like it but we need to for football. (Where I stand)
Only 10% was all in.
(08-16-2023 08:07 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023 07:43 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]BY should be ecstatic about the western additions, but it doesn't bode well for the future of schools like WVU and UCF long term. Obviously, it's not his problem and entirely up to these schools to adjust to the daunting travel demands and scheduling. But it's very unsustainable. If you look at the map, the Big 12 is basically a grander SWC (which is awesome), but I'd try to negotiate out if I were UCF/WVU as soon as FSU pulls the trigger.
If it's just FSU leaving, then the ACC is preferable.
But what are the odds that FSU is the only defection? UNC is also coveted by both the Big Ten and the SEC. UNC isn't going to sit idly while FSU makes 3x the money they do.
At that point, the ACC will probably be worth less per-school than the Big 12. Thus, the Big 12 will be able to cherry pick the best remaining ACC schools the same way they did with the PAC. This will allow WVU/UC/UCF to add schools to create an Eastern Pod that will be stronger in football than any version of the Big East.
Where is FSU going? I've heard a lot of lip flapping in Tallahassee but no one has given a cogent explanation of how FSU can break the GOR, or even assuming it could, that it would in any way behoove ESPN to move them to SEC and pay them more money over the next 13 years. The threat of the B1G adding FSU is a stalking horse --- ESPN and the ACC own FSU's rights for the next decade plus. The Noles need to simmer down, they aren't going anywhere right now.
(08-16-2023 08:07 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023 07:43 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]BY should be ecstatic about the western additions, but it doesn't bode well for the future of schools like WVU and UCF long term. Obviously, it's not his problem and entirely up to these schools to adjust to the daunting travel demands and scheduling. But it's very unsustainable. If you look at the map, the Big 12 is basically a grander SWC (which is awesome), but I'd try to negotiate out if I were UCF/WVU as soon as FSU pulls the trigger.
If it's just FSU leaving, then the ACC is preferable.
But what are the odds that FSU is the only defection? UNC is also coveted by both the Big Ten and the SEC. UNC isn't going to sit idly while FSU makes 3x the money they do.
At that point, the ACC will probably be worth less per-school than the Big 12. Thus, the Big 12 will be able to cherry pick the best remaining ACC schools the same way they did with the PAC. This will allow WVU/UC/UCF to add schools to create an Eastern Pod that will be stronger in football than any version of the Big East.
Maybe, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I was somewhat surprised how much the Big 12 got this round. Particularly when compared to the PAC. Will that sustain? Going back to market way before the ACC should help, but we're still talking about a bunch of schools the Big 12/SEC didn't want (Kansas St, Kansas, Iowa St., Oklahoma St., Baylor, Texas Tech) and a bunch of schools no other power conference wanted (BYU, Cincy, UCF, West Virginia, Houston, and TCU). I get that many of these schools have positives, but having no big brands hurt. And adding Arizona/Arizona St./Colorado/Utah is more depth than brands. It'll be interesting to see how the broadcasters view them down the road if the viewership numbers aren't great.
There's also a big question of how much the ACC loses. I think the potential losses are often exaggerated. The old Big 12, which I think most people would easily agree was a vastly superior football conference to the ACC, only lost 5 schools to the BIG 10/SEC (Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas A&M, and Nebraska). And even Missouri seems like a borderline school these days. The bar is high and the ACC isn't that great. There's a few obvious ones (FSU, UNC), but a lot of maybes and probably nots. So if the ACC retained schools like Miami or Clemson or even a Virginia Tech or Georgia Tech, is that really all that different than the Big 12?
(08-16-2023 10:47 AM)IWantToTalkToRalphSampson Wrote: [ -> ]The Noles need to simmer down, they aren't going anywhere right now.
2036, at the latest (although someone said 2037) really isn't that far into the future. Unless someone lacks the years needed for that perspective.
However, they are eager to move on with their lives so FSU is stirring the pot. If enough others get golden tickets in hand and can end the GOR or conference, they'll all jump. Until then, they, and we, wait. Enjoy the show.
(08-16-2023 06:44 AM)PlayBall! Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...3203646733
I'll add, at least for UConn, that there's still hope for the future. E.g., if the ACC goes PAC-boom, or if KU, etc. gets an SEC or B1G call-up.
I'm not altogether convinced Yormark didn't want, at some point, St. John's in some sort of Gonzaga-like combo package.
Rick Pitino likely shut that down with three words.
(08-16-2023 07:43 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]BY should be ecstatic about the western additions, but it doesn't bode well for the future of schools like WVU and UCF long term. Obviously, it's not his problem and entirely up to these schools to adjust to the daunting travel demands and scheduling. But it's very unsustainable. If you look at the map, the Big 12 is basically a grander SWC (which is awesome), but I'd try to negotiate out if I were UCF/WVU as soon as FSU pulls the trigger.
Yeah, why stay in a strong and stable league when you can go through all that old Big 12 instability all over again but in the ACC instead? Or, you know, they could recruit some nearby travel partners to flesh out the Eastern Wing of the Big 12.
(08-16-2023 10:47 AM)IWantToTalkToRalphSampson Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023 08:07 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023 07:43 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]BY should be ecstatic about the western additions, but it doesn't bode well for the future of schools like WVU and UCF long term. Obviously, it's not his problem and entirely up to these schools to adjust to the daunting travel demands and scheduling. But it's very unsustainable. If you look at the map, the Big 12 is basically a grander SWC (which is awesome), but I'd try to negotiate out if I were UCF/WVU as soon as FSU pulls the trigger.
If it's just FSU leaving, then the ACC is preferable.
But what are the odds that FSU is the only defection? UNC is also coveted by both the Big Ten and the SEC. UNC isn't going to sit idly while FSU makes 3x the money they do.
At that point, the ACC will probably be worth less per-school than the Big 12. Thus, the Big 12 will be able to cherry pick the best remaining ACC schools the same way they did with the PAC. This will allow WVU/UC/UCF to add schools to create an Eastern Pod that will be stronger in football than any version of the Big East.
Where is FSU going? I've heard a lot of lip flapping in Tallahassee but no one has given a cogent explanation of how FSU can break the GOR, or even assuming it could, that it would in any way behoove ESPN to move them to SEC and pay them more money over the next 13 years. The threat of the B1G adding FSU is a stalking horse --- ESPN and the ACC own FSU's rights for the next decade plus. The Noles need to simmer down, they aren't going anywhere right now.
Not least b/c UW/UO are only getting $35m a year from the B1G until 2029, and they're FAR better institutional fits than FSU and Clemson. Oregon's Athletic Brand is every bit as robust as FSU/Clemson, and Washington's is close, but they're also Flagship AAUs. If FSU wants to credibly use the B1G to incite early SEC movement, they need to wait until 2029 to do so at the earliest, and then only b/c the imminent new B1G media rights agreement could at least theoretically lead to a significant pay increase from a move. If they moved to the B1G today, they'd make about what they make in the ACC before factoring in exit fees and whatever they need to do to extricate themselves from the GoR.
(08-16-2023 11:38 AM)Jericho Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023 08:07 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: [ -> ] (08-16-2023 07:43 AM)RUScarlets Wrote: [ -> ]BY should be ecstatic about the western additions, but it doesn't bode well for the future of schools like WVU and UCF long term. Obviously, it's not his problem and entirely up to these schools to adjust to the daunting travel demands and scheduling. But it's very unsustainable. If you look at the map, the Big 12 is basically a grander SWC (which is awesome), but I'd try to negotiate out if I were UCF/WVU as soon as FSU pulls the trigger.
If it's just FSU leaving, then the ACC is preferable.
But what are the odds that FSU is the only defection? UNC is also coveted by both the Big Ten and the SEC. UNC isn't going to sit idly while FSU makes 3x the money they do.
At that point, the ACC will probably be worth less per-school than the Big 12. Thus, the Big 12 will be able to cherry pick the best remaining ACC schools the same way they did with the PAC. This will allow WVU/UC/UCF to add schools to create an Eastern Pod that will be stronger in football than any version of the Big East.
Maybe, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I was somewhat surprised how much the Big 12 got this round. Particularly when compared to the PAC. Will that sustain? Going back to market way before the ACC should help, but we're still talking about a bunch of schools the Big 12/SEC didn't want (Kansas St, Kansas, Iowa St., Oklahoma St., Baylor, Texas Tech) and a bunch of schools no other power conference wanted (BYU, Cincy, UCF, West Virginia, Houston, and TCU). I get that many of these schools have positives, but having no big brands hurt. And adding Arizona/Arizona St./Colorado/Utah is more depth than brands. It'll be interesting to see how the broadcasters view them down the road if the viewership numbers aren't great.
There's also a big question of how much the ACC loses. I think the potential losses are often exaggerated. The old Big 12, which I think most people would easily agree was a vastly superior football conference to the ACC, only lost 5 schools to the BIG 10/SEC (Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Texas A&M, and Nebraska). And even Missouri seems like a borderline school these days. The bar is high and the ACC isn't that great. There's a few obvious ones (FSU, UNC), but a lot of maybes and probably nots. So if the ACC retained schools like Miami or Clemson or even a Virginia Tech or Georgia Tech, is that really all that different than the Big 12?
The whole point of the Big 12 is that they have no "top" Brands, but every single school has a big following, so when a particular group of schools rises to the top in any given year, the ratings remain steady. They were in fact far better than the ACC last year even though they had KSU and TCU on top vs Clemson and UNC in the ACC. The Big 12 doesn't have a school like Clemson or FSU, but they have a whole bunch like NCST and VT.