Football drives the bus and UConn would be a flat tire.
1. No on campus stadium. Stadium is 30 miles away.
2. BE Conference record 27-35 with 2 winning seasons in 9 years.
3. AAC Conference record 11-45 in 7 seasons with no winning seasons.
It is a flagship university but of a small state.
If FB was a priority, they would have an on-campus facility.
Yes, the BB is excellent but FB drives the bus! The Big12 does not have a shortage of excellent BB.
In UConn's most successful football season, they went to the Fiesta Bowl and couldn't sell out their allotment. They lost $1.6 Million because they couldn't find enough fans to travel to Arizona for one of the most coveted bowl games in the country. Even in success, their football team fails.
UConn fans only care about playing Northeastern schools. They didn't support the AAC. They wont support the Big 12.
As a Football independent, they have loaded their schedule with teams in the Eastern Time Zone. In the next 6 years they travel outside of the EST twice. They can't handle the Big 12 schedule with that many trips to Texas.
(06-14-2023 01:34 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote: [ -> ]In UConn's most successful football season, they went to the Fiesta Bowl and couldn't sell out their allotment. They lost $1.6 Million because they couldn't find enough fans to travel to Arizona for one of the most coveted bowl games in the country. Even in success, their football team fails.
UConn fans only care about playing Northeastern schools. They didn't support the AAC. They wont support the Big 12.
As a Football independent, they have loaded their schedule with teams in the Eastern Time Zone. In the next 6 years they travel outside of the EST twice. They can't handle the Big 12 schedule with that many trips to Texas.
You are spot on but what worries me is I keep hearing Yormack is giving them consideration. Rumors of Gonzaga BB only does not thrill me either.
In 2036 they might belong in a watered down ACC when half of the ACC gets taken by The SEC, BIG and BIG12.
(06-14-2023 12:33 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ]Football drives the bus and UConn would be a flat tire.
1. No on campus stadium. Stadium is 30 miles away.
2. BE Conference record 27-35 with 2 winning seasons in 9 years.
3. AAC Conference record 11-45 in 7 seasons with no winning seasons.
It is a flagship university but of a small state.
If FB was a priority, they would have an on-campus facility.
Yes, the BB is excellent but FB drives the bus! The Big12 does not have a shortage of excellent BB.
That is not an accurate picture of UConn's football program in the Big East. Do you mean winning seasons as in strictly having a winning record in-conference?
From 2004 to 2012 when UConn was a member of the Big East, its records were 8-4, 5-6, 4-8, 9-4, 8-5, 8-5, 8-5, 5-7, 5-7.
The two years prior to joining the Big East in football, it was 6-6 and 9-3. It also averaged over 30,000 season ticket holders and regularly sold out the stadium during that time.
UConn wasn't a world beater, but very respectable in the Big East. Obviously, the floor fell out in the AAC and it sucked but getting football back into a power conference would very likely get the program back to solid Big East form.
CT also is not a small state. Population-wise, it's medium. With 3.6 million residents, it's larger than Utah, Iowa, Nevada, Arkansas, Kansas, Mississippi, Idaho, Nebraska, and West Virginia.
How many of those UCONN football wins (during your golden years) were against Yale, Central Connecticut State, New Hampshire, UMess, Rhode Island, Sacred Heart and Wagner, or schools of similar football pedigree?
Every conference need a doormat.
(06-14-2023 03:25 PM)vabearcat Wrote: [ -> ]How many of those UCONN football wins (during your golden years) were against Yale, Central Connecticut State, New Hampshire, UMess, Rhode Island, Sacred Heart and Wagner, or schools of similar football pedigree?
You forgot Yale.
I feel like this has been covered, no need to pile on.
Yukon made their choice. They can now live with it.
(06-14-2023 03:25 PM)vabearcat Wrote: [ -> ]How many of those UCONN football wins (during your golden years) were against Yale, Central Connecticut State, New Hampshire, UMess, Rhode Island, Sacred Heart and Wagner, or schools of similar football pedigree?
We only played one of those games a year generally. I mean, we bullied Syracuse pretty badly, were pretty even with USF, Louisville, Rutgers and Pitt. Cincy generally had our number and WVU dominated us for sure. We did beat Baylor twice and went 1 and 1 against Iowa State.
(06-14-2023 05:50 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2023 03:25 PM)vabearcat Wrote: [ -> ]How many of those UCONN football wins (during your golden years) were against Yale, Central Connecticut State, New Hampshire, UMess, Rhode Island, Sacred Heart and Wagner, or schools of similar football pedigree?
We only played one of those games a year generally. I mean, we bullied Syracuse pretty badly, were pretty even with USF, Louisville, Rutgers and Pitt. Cincy generally had our number and WVU dominated us for sure. We did beat Baylor twice and went 1 and 1 against Iowa State.
SADEXCUSE 6-6 So you bullied them to break even?
USF 5-12 even with USF DAH!
LOU 4-6
ROTGERS 11-22 Tem doubling up is not even
PITTS 5-4
UC 3-13
WVU 1-7
(06-14-2023 06:25 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2023 05:50 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2023 03:25 PM)vabearcat Wrote: [ -> ]How many of those UCONN football wins (during your golden years) were against Yale, Central Connecticut State, New Hampshire, UMess, Rhode Island, Sacred Heart and Wagner, or schools of similar football pedigree?
We only played one of those games a year generally. I mean, we bullied Syracuse pretty badly, were pretty even with USF, Louisville, Rutgers and Pitt. Cincy generally had our number and WVU dominated us for sure. We did beat Baylor twice and went 1 and 1 against Iowa State.
SADEXCUSE 6-6 So you bullied them to break even?
USF 5-12 even with USF DAH!
LOU 4-6
ROTGERS 11-22 Tem doubling up is not even
PITTS 5-4
UC 3-13
WVU 1-7
I'm talking time in the Big East. UConn was 7-2 vs Cuse in the Big East. 5-5 vs USF. We have a long history of playing Rutgers and they dominated up to the 80s and didn't play us in the 90s but the Big East record was much more even. The Louisville and Pitt records are clearly pretty even and like I admitted, UC and WVU did pretty thoroughly dominate. Everyone knows the program fell apart in the American. I'm not saying you can't factor all that in. I'm just making my case that when UConn was in the Big East, it was competitive. The numbers back that up.
(06-14-2023 07:13 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2023 06:25 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2023 05:50 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2023 03:25 PM)vabearcat Wrote: [ -> ]How many of those UCONN football wins (during your golden years) were against Yale, Central Connecticut State, New Hampshire, UMess, Rhode Island, Sacred Heart and Wagner, or schools of similar football pedigree?
We only played one of those games a year generally. I mean, we bullied Syracuse pretty badly, were pretty even with USF, Louisville, Rutgers and Pitt. Cincy generally had our number and WVU dominated us for sure. We did beat Baylor twice and went 1 and 1 against Iowa State.
SADEXCUSE 6-6 So you bullied them to break even?
USF 5-12 even with USF DAH!
LOU 4-6
ROTGERS 11-22 Tem doubling up is not even
PITTS 5-4
UC 3-13
WVU 1-7
I'm talking time in the Big East. UConn was 7-2 vs Cuse in the Big East. 5-5 vs USF. We have a long history of playing Rutgers and they dominated up to the 80s and didn't play us in the 90s but the Big East record was much more even. The Louisville and Pitt records are clearly pretty even and like I admitted, UC and WVU did pretty thoroughly dominate. Everyone knows the program fell apart in the American. I'm not saying you can't factor all that in. I'm just making my case that when UConn was in the Big East, it was competitive. The numbers back that up.
That was the UConn of yesteryear. The UConn of today struggles to get to 6 wins and can't get a winning season even with a bowl bid. As someone who attended WVU and Marshall, I've watched both teams beat the Huskies easily and with very little trouble.
I've also said this several times before, but I also assure you that the likes of Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and Kansas State are monstrous teams that you don't want to play on a bad day. Ask a Pitt fan what happened the last time the Cowboys played them on Pennsylvania soil. It wasn't pretty. If Jim Mora leads the Huskies to a miracle season, I'd agree that there's potential.
However, as has been stated, UConn made it to the Fiesta Bowl and their fans didn't even travel to Arizona to play. Football is very important. The Big 12 has strong basketball, but the Big 12 isn't a basketball conference like the old Big East was in the 2000's. The Huskies would be a
BAD fit. Trust me on this.
I'm going to take a stab at this...
When UConn left the AAC, they cited several reasons for doing so. I'm not interested in debating the validity of the reasons, I'm just going to take them at "face value" and ask how membership in the Big XII would work with those issues that UConn said were detrimental in the AAC...
1) Travel Expenses: This was, if I recall, the single biggest reason UConn (institutionally) cited in leaving the AAC. The BE was an "Eastern Conference" but then the AAC morphed into a "Southern" and then "Southwestern" conference. UConn athletics was facing massive deficits and travel expenses were cited as a dominant financial factor. Trips to Dallas (SMU), New Orleans (Tulane), Tulsa, Houston, etc...were too expensive.
So, how does traveling to Provo, Manhattan, Waco, Lubbock, Stillwater, not to mention the legacy trips to Houston, Orlando, and Cincinnati HELP UConn's travel woes? And that's not even figuring in the cost of inflation (it's MORE expensive now to travel than it was in 2018) or the potential for Westward B12 expansion.
2) Lack of "rivalry" Games: The claim was that UConn athletics was withering on the vine because the AAC just couldn't provide compelling "rivalry" games. Fair enough, I think the AAC was a crappy conference...but... UConn claimed their fans were pining for "the old days" of playing Georgetown, and Providence, and Saint John's.
Who, in the Big XII, would be UConn's traditional rivals? I mean, I get not being able to get excited about playing Eastern Carolina, but the Big XII foes outside of WVU...and to a lesser extent UC, Houston, and UCF...don't have any history with UConn. True a "Kansas vs. UConn" is a marquee banner, but those games could be scheduled OOC.
3)Lack of Regionally Available Games for the Fans: Building off #1 and #2, UConn athletics claimed that they were suffering a slow death because the AAC provided very few "drivable" games for their fans to make. Again, there is truth here. UConn's return to the Big East, especially in BB and other "Olympic Sports" brought back competitions within easy driving for UConn fans.
But if "Lack of the Fan's ability to travel" was a problem in the AAC, how does the geography of the Big XII help? The destinations are FURTHER afield, not closer.
I'll add a fourth:
4:Institutional Fit: UConn, even though they are a public, state university, in many ways was an odd duck in the AAC. The AAC was dominated by larger, midwestern and western Universities; UConn is Northeastern and very much more at-home with the private, Eastern, parochial schools in the Big East.
It's unclear how UConn would fit with the institutions of the Big XII. UConn's values are just...different. They really are where they belong right now and to take them into the Big XII would be akin to replicating the issues that plagued them in the AAC.
Dude, you went 0-4
B-12 pays more money, at this point half of BE is in midwest.
your comparing games with 10,000 of fans vs games in HS gyms with 100 fans.
games with better time slots n national TV games instead of ESPN+
travelling to B-12 schools for top 10 matchups cannot compare to AAC regular season games
half AAC was private, B-12 are large public state schools as is Conn.
Conn gives B-12 access to large population to recurit students & athletes
and you can not deny their location, location, location
(06-15-2023 11:35 AM)templefootballfan Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, you went 0-4
B-12 pays more money, at this point half of BE is in midwest.
your comparing games with 10,000 of fans vs games in HS gyms with 100 fans.
games with better time slots n national TV games instead of ESPN+
travelling to B-12 schools for top 10 matchups cannot compare to AAC regular season games
half AAC was private, B-12 are large public state schools as is Conn.
Conn gives B-12 access to large population to recurit students & athletes
and you can not deny their location, location, location
You didn't even bother to try and address any of the UConn points. And, yeah, I understand that "half of the BE is in the midwest..." which is why I didn't want to get into arguing the validity of their arguments.
Your only valid point is that "The Big XII pays more money." Which is great for UConn, I guess. Yeah, the Big XII pays more money which means UConn is really just a whore for the money.
(06-15-2023 11:35 AM)templefootballfan Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, you went 0-4
B-12 pays more money, at this point half of BE is in midwest.
your comparing games with 10,000 of fans vs games in HS gyms with 100 fans.
games with better time slots n national TV games instead of ESPN+
travelling to B-12 schools for top 10 matchups cannot compare to AAC regular season games
half AAC was private, B-12 are large public state schools as is Conn.
Conn gives B-12 access to large population to recurit students & athletes
and you can not deny their location, location, location
UC, UCF and UH are large public schools did not whine about it. We invested an progressed.
did not whine about it, I'd don't about that.
but your right, 3 schools invested & progressed and did great job
i live in Texas now, I'm thrilled about new B-12
Conn did the same thing but took a differant route, olympic sports are thriving
now in FB, they should have showed more foresight.
they did hire Edsell & Dabio and both were disasters, had to shut down program due covid
FB will improve
if you want to be national conf #3, you better put dent in ACC & Pac armor
get Conn out of there, ACC will be fighting over ODU & Temple
(06-15-2023 10:27 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ]I'm going to take a stab at this...
When UConn left the AAC, they cited several reasons for doing so. I'm not interested in debating the validity of the reasons, I'm just going to take them at "face value" and ask how membership in the Big XII would work with those issues that UConn said were detrimental in the AAC...
You bring up legitimate points. Here's my take:
(06-15-2023 10:27 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ]1) Travel Expenses: This was, if I recall, the single biggest reason UConn (institutionally) cited in leaving the AAC. The BE was an "Eastern Conference" but then the AAC morphed into a "Southern" and then "Southwestern" conference. UConn athletics was facing massive deficits and travel expenses were cited as a dominant financial factor. Trips to Dallas (SMU), New Orleans (Tulane), Tulsa, Houston, etc...were too expensive.
So, how does traveling to Provo, Manhattan, Waco, Lubbock, Stillwater, not to mention the legacy trips to Houston, Orlando, and Cincinnati HELP UConn's travel woes? And that's not even figuring in the cost of inflation (it's MORE expensive now to travel than it was in 2018) or the potential for Westward B12 expansion.
Travel *expenses* are a big concern when you are on a tight budget. With [eventual] Big 12 media revenue, the travel expenses are no longer a concern. Poof. Gone. The actual *travel* itself is still a concern, but that is not the same as travel expenses. So, the Big 12 easily satisfies UConn's top concern.
(06-15-2023 10:27 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ]2) Lack of "rivalry" Games: The claim was that UConn athletics was withering on the vine because the AAC just couldn't provide compelling "rivalry" games. Fair enough, I think the AAC was a crappy conference...but... UConn claimed their fans were pining for "the old days" of playing Georgetown, and Providence, and Saint John's.
Who, in the Big XII, would be UConn's traditional rivals? I mean, I get not being able to get excited about playing Eastern Carolina, but the Big XII foes outside of WVU...and to a lesser extent UC, Houston, and UCF...don't have any history with UConn. True a "Kansas vs. UConn" is a marquee banner, but those games could be scheduled OOC.
Was UConn's concern lack of rivalry games....or lack of quality games? In Big 12 basketball, UConn will have marquee games on national television, like Kansas v. UConn, as you mention. Half of the Big 12 lineup was ranked in basketball last year. In football, you have a major upgrade in the schools on the schedule. So, even if not regional rivals, there will be marquee games on the football and basketball schedules that were not there with the AAC schedules.
Big 12 UConn can also schedule OOC games with Providence, St. John's, Villanova, and Georgetown.
(06-15-2023 10:27 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ]3)Lack of Regionally Available Games for the Fans: Building off #1 and #2, UConn athletics claimed that they were suffering a slow death because the AAC provided very few "drivable" games for their fans to make. Again, there is truth here. UConn's return to the Big East, especially in BB and other "Olympic Sports" brought back competitions within easy driving for UConn fans.
But if "Lack of the Fan's ability to travel" was a problem in the AAC, how does the geography of the Big XII help? The destinations are FURTHER afield, not closer.
#1 and #2 are the real issues - not necessarily the lack of drivable games. UConn lacked quality games or at least interesting games. This issue was compounded by the travel expenses without sufficient revenue. Independent UConn has scheduled more drivable games, for sure. But, more important is to get a schedule for which UConn fans will actually travel to *Storrs* to watch the game. The Big 12 delivers here.
And again, Big 12 UConn can schedule OOC games with Providence, St. John's, Villanova, and Georgetown...and UMass, Army, BC, Syracuse, etc.
(06-15-2023 10:27 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote: [ -> ]I'll add a fourth:
4:Institutional Fit: UConn, even though they are a public, state university, in many ways was an odd duck in the AAC. The AAC was dominated by larger, midwestern and western Universities; UConn is Northeastern and very much more at-home with the private, Eastern, parochial schools in the Big East.
It's unclear how UConn would fit with the institutions of the Big XII. UConn's values are just...different. They really are where they belong right now and to take them into the Big XII would be akin to replicating the issues that plagued them in the AAC.
Seems like UConn is a Big East misfit...a public land-grant institution among a group of religious institutions. The UConn fit in the Big East is geography, proximity, and Northeastern culture, but not institutional. As an institution, UConn has more in common with other land grant institutions like WVU, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and [possibly] Arizona.
I'd accept UConn as a Non-Football Member.
UConn should relegate their Football team to FCS. It was a failed Big East project. Big East made mistakes under Tranghese and Marinatto. Fast tracking UConn from FCS to Big East was one of the more glaring errors.
If Yormark wants to uncouple the basketball deal in the next media negotiation. We can add some Non-Football members closer to end of the media deal in 2030-31. Gonzaga and UConn as fine Non-Football additions.
As long as the Full Members keep a three-fourths majority over the Non-Football members we avoid a lot of the headaches the Big East structure had. So Big 12 with 12 Full members can stomach 2-4 Non-Football additions.