I see these schools come up for realignment moves to the ACC. But other than location why would they need or want to move? In Cincinnati’s and UCF’s case they just joined a conference that lost schools so it doesn’t make sense to me to move to another that would have just lost schools.
In a worst-case scenario for certain ACC schools, if the ACC manages to stay together for the distance the Big 12 could, assuming the following deal is six years as well, be close to working on its third media deal (year starts: 2024-25, 2031-32, 2038-39) by the time the ACC is able to work on one deal (starting 2036-37). In the best-case scenario where those same schools are able to get out sooner, the Big 12 will likely be working on a second media deal for an already pretty stable conference. So what are the other benefits besides location that I’m missing? Seems like staying in the Big 12 is the better option.
Massive exit fees will keep them in the XII unless they got a P2 invite. However I could see a scenario where the PAC, XII, and ACC agreed to merge themselves into 1 or 2 geographically cohesive conferences/divisions.
Atlantic XII and Pacific XII with the eastern time zone teams like UCF, Cinci and WVU in the Atlantic XII.
Timing is near everything. The ACC passed on WVU and Cincy in the past. Waiting until the conference is desperate is poor planning and probably narrows the field of possibilities. The ACC would be geographically better, but if the more prominent southern/lower mid-Atlantic schools that were in the ACC are gone, the incentives to bond with what’s left could be highly diminished.
That's where the rivalry games fans want to watch are located. Something to think about. UCONN''s men's basketball revenues their last year in the AAC were $9,789,117. Last year they were $24,055,088. Football increased from $12,087,816 to $18,413,319 as an independent.
WVU and Cincy: Absolutely they would want to go to the ACC. They'd get Pitt, Syracuse, & Louisville back on their schedules for both football and basketball. UConn would more than likely get an invite so that's a basketball matchup fans would want to see. Travel burdens would ease with the move.
Also, people seem to forget that the ACC has massive exit fees as well. The idea that the B1G and SEC are going to take so many teams that the ACC would dissolve just isn't going to happen. Those remaining schools have no reason to join a conference that stretches from the eastern to the mountain time zone when they can just stay in the ACC and steal a few eastern teams from the Big XII/Big East.
UCF: I'm not so sure about them. It all depends on what schools are left in the ACC a decade from now.
(04-30-2023 08:02 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote: [ -> ]Massive exit fees will keep them in the XII unless they got a P2 invite. However I could see a scenario where the PAC, XII, and ACC agreed to merge themselves into 1 or 2 geographically cohesive conferences/divisions.
Atlantic XII and Pacific XII with the eastern time zone teams like UCF, Cinci and WVU in the Atlantic XII.
I don't see much if any collaboration, at least as far as the B12 is concerned. A depleted P12 might try to merge with a depleted ACC, but even that seems like a stretch. B12 is well positioned to poach any remaining members from either conference.
Sent from my LM-G820 using
CSNbbs mobile app
Honestly I think the B12 would look like the stronger option from a depleted ACC and Cincy, WVU, and UCF could basically pick who they'd want from the ACC remainders to join the stronger B12. I think Louisville and Pitt would be shoeins to the B12 in this arrangement which would bode well for Cincy and WVU especially.
Sent from my LM-G820 using
CSNbbs mobile app
(04-30-2023 08:40 PM)Porcine Wrote: [ -> ]That's where the rivalry games fans want to watch are located. Something to think about. UCONN''s men's basketball revenues their last year in the AAC were $9,789,117. Last year they were $24,055,088. Football increased from $12,087,816 to $18,413,319 as an independent.
The BE and AAC are not similar in basketball, that's a poor comparison on your part.
Why can't WV just play Pitt every year non conference, then try to get Pitt into the big 12 in the future? WV has been in the big 12 longer than Pitt has been in the ACC. As for Cincy? Why would they leave a stronger football conference in the big 12 and then pay $100m for the privilege of moving to the weakened ACC? It just doesn't make sense. It would be like Arkansas in 1990 moving from the SEC to the SWC b/c they liked their rivalry games with A&M and Texas too much.
Cincinnati? No. Missouri Valley. Indy. CUSA. Big East. American. B12. That's the path the football program has been on since the late 50's. Hoops was in the Metro and Great Midwest conferences when football was Indy. It's been a hard road trying to find continuity with geography and rivalries but with some successes along the way. We have [pardon the pun] scratched and clawed to get where we are today in the B12. There's no way in hades Cincinnati would jump from a stable conference to one that would become unstable from an exodus of schools just so we could be in a conference with Pitt and Louisville. Honestly, Pitt could care less about us but Da'Ville would welcome the opportunity to renew our rivalries of the past. That said, the B12 is a great conference for us based on passion for football from the fanbases, and wow, what a hoops conference too. We're good but we'll leave the light on for Memphis...
Maybe they don’t have to make that choice. Yormark seems pretty acutely aware that at some point the Big 10 and SEC are going to expand again and it will be at the expense of the PAC 10 and ACC and he’s positioning the Big 12 to grab up the pieces.
To make an earthquake analogy, what we’ve being seeing these past couple decades are tremors—a couple schools here, a couple schools there. I think the next one is the big one that radically alters the entire landscape.
(04-30-2023 08:42 PM)Jeff Smithers Wrote: [ -> ]WVU and Cincy: Absolutely they would want to go to the ACC. They'd get Pitt, Syracuse, & Louisville back on their schedules for both football and basketball. UConn would more than likely get an invite so that's a basketball matchup fans would want to see. Travel burdens would ease with the move.
Also, people seem to forget that the ACC has massive exit fees as well. The idea that the B1G and SEC are going to take so many teams that the ACC would dissolve just isn't going to happen. Those remaining schools have no reason to join a conference that stretches from the eastern to the mountain time zone when they can just stay in the ACC and steal a few eastern teams from the Big XII/Big East.
UCF: I'm not so sure about them. It all depends on what schools are left in the ACC a decade from now.
Yeah, geographic fit helps create natural rivalries and will always be an attraction. Cincinnati and West Virginia are much closer to geographic center of the ACC. They also have longstanding rivalries with many of the schools making it more fun for boosters.
(04-30-2023 09:06 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2023 08:40 PM)Porcine Wrote: [ -> ]That's where the rivalry games fans want to watch are located. Something to think about. UCONN''s men's basketball revenues their last year in the AAC were $9,789,117. Last year they were $24,055,088. Football increased from $12,087,816 to $18,413,319 as an independent.
The BE and AAC are not similar in basketball, that's a poor comparison on your part.
Why can't WV just play Pitt every year non conference, then try to get Pitt into the big 12 in the future? WV has been in the big 12 longer than Pitt has been in the ACC. As for Cincy? Why would they leave a stronger football conference in the big 12 and then pay $100m for the privilege of moving to the weakened ACC? It just doesn't make sense. It would be like Arkansas in 1990 moving from the SEC to the SWC b/c they liked their rivalry games with A&M and Texas too much.
The BE and AAC not being similar was precisely the point. Playing your rivals, your biggest draws, always makes sense. Did you know that WVU's football and men's basketball revenues were lower last year than they were the last year in the Big East? There was no comparison between the SEC and SWC and two Texans were supposed to come with us. Too bad it took this long.
(04-30-2023 09:30 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe they don’t have to make that choice. Yormark seems pretty acutely aware that at some point the Big 10 and SEC are going to expand again and it will be at the expense of the PAC 10 and ACC and he’s positioning the Big 12 to grab up the pieces.
To make an earthquake analogy, what we’ve being seeing these past couple decades are tremors—a couple schools here, a couple schools there. I think the next one is the big one that radically alters the entire landscape.
And there it is. We just wonder will there be two big Ms or one really big M.
I’m putting the magic number at 6. If only 6 defect (Miami/FSU/Clemson/Duke/UNC/UVA), I think UC/WVU/UCF would shift to an eastern-focused ACC. If the ACC loses more than 6, then I think that’s the tipping point where it’s a lost cause.
Reformed ACC (12)
Boston College
UConn
Syracuse
Pitt
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville
Virginia Tech
NC State
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
UCF
(04-30-2023 10:05 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]I’m putting the magic number at 6. If only 6 defect (Miami/FSU/Clemson/Duke/UNC/UVA), I think UC/WVU/UCF would shift to an eastern-focused ACC. If the ACC loses more than 6, then I think that’s the tipping point where it’s a lost cause.
Reformed ACC (12)
Boston College
UConn
Syracuse
Pitt
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville
Virginia Tech
NC State
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
UCF
lmao so they're going to jump to a conference that just lost nearly half their members a couple of weeks prior?
(04-30-2023 08:42 PM)Jeff Smithers Wrote: [ -> ]WVU and Cincy: Absolutely they would want to go to the ACC. They'd get Pitt, Syracuse, & Louisville back on their schedules for both football and basketball. UConn would more than likely get an invite so that's a basketball matchup fans would want to see. Travel burdens would ease with the move.
Also, people seem to forget that the ACC has massive exit fees as well. The idea that the B1G and SEC are going to take so many teams that the ACC would dissolve just isn't going to happen. Those remaining schools have no reason to join a conference that stretches from the eastern to the mountain time zone when they can just stay in the ACC and steal a few eastern teams from the Big XII/Big East.
UCF: I'm not so sure about them. It all depends on what schools are left in the ACC a decade from now.
WVU and Cincy: Absolutely they would want to go to the ACC...but would the ACC want to go with WVU and Cincy???
> IF ACC - (FL St + Clemson) THEN ACC + (UCF + Cincy)*
*UCF replacement for FL St.
**Miami possibility blocking UCF or at least objecting...
*UVA & VA Tech would probably block WVU...
**Was previously denied by the ACC
*No foreseen objections to Cincy...
**Was previously denied by the ACC
> IF ACC - (FL St + Clemson) AND IF ACC wanted to go to 16
THEN ACC + (WVU+Cincy+UCF)*
*Barring any objections...
(04-30-2023 09:34 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2023 08:42 PM)Jeff Smithers Wrote: [ -> ]WVU and Cincy: Absolutely they would want to go to the ACC. They'd get Pitt, Syracuse, & Louisville back on their schedules for both football and basketball. UConn would more than likely get an invite so that's a basketball matchup fans would want to see. Travel burdens would ease with the move.
Also, people seem to forget that the ACC has massive exit fees as well. The idea that the B1G and SEC are going to take so many teams that the ACC would dissolve just isn't going to happen. Those remaining schools have no reason to join a conference that stretches from the eastern to the mountain time zone when they can just stay in the ACC and steal a few eastern teams from the Big XII/Big East.
UCF: I'm not so sure about them. It all depends on what schools are left in the ACC a decade from now.
Yeah, geographic fit helps create natural rivalries and will always be an attraction. Cincinnati and West Virginia are much closer to geographic center of the ACC. They also have longstanding rivalries with many of the schools making it more fun for boosters.
They have been available to the ACC for decades, and even up until 6 months ago you guys probably could have still grabbed them. It’s a bit late now for 2nd guessing.
(04-30-2023 09:38 PM)Porcine Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2023 09:06 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2023 08:40 PM)Porcine Wrote: [ -> ]That's where the rivalry games fans want to watch are located. Something to think about. UCONN''s men's basketball revenues their last year in the AAC were $9,789,117. Last year they were $24,055,088. Football increased from $12,087,816 to $18,413,319 as an independent.
The BE and AAC are not similar in basketball, that's a poor comparison on your part.
Why can't WV just play Pitt every year non conference, then try to get Pitt into the big 12 in the future? WV has been in the big 12 longer than Pitt has been in the ACC. As for Cincy? Why would they leave a stronger football conference in the big 12 and then pay $100m for the privilege of moving to the weakened ACC? It just doesn't make sense. It would be like Arkansas in 1990 moving from the SEC to the SWC b/c they liked their rivalry games with A&M and Texas too much.
The BE and AAC not being similar was precisely the point. Playing your rivals, your biggest draws, always makes sense. Did you know that WVU's football and men's basketball revenues were lower last year than they were the last year in the Big East? There was no comparison between the SEC and SWC and two Texans were supposed to come with us. Too bad it took this long.
Based upon our recent record against you guys, I concur that we should have joined the SEC much sooner.
(04-30-2023 10:05 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]I’m putting the magic number at 6. If only 6 defect (Miami/FSU/Clemson/Duke/UNC/UVA), I think UC/WVU/UCF would shift to an eastern-focused ACC. If the ACC loses more than 6, then I think that’s the tipping point where it’s a lost cause.
Reformed ACC (12)
Boston College
UConn
Syracuse
Pitt
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville
Virginia Tech
NC State
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
UCF
My numbers are 0 and 3. If the ACC loses 0 then they’re on par with the big 12 in 2036, and either a full merger or M2 is likely. If the ACC loses their big 3 of FSU, UNC, and Clemson then an M1 is much more likely, perhaps with the entire ACC, the entire PAC, or most of both combined into the big 12. Depending upon how successful the ACCN is and how difficult new negotiations are, it’s possible that the full combined entity would remain the ACC with all the others joining or merging into them, thus giving schools like BC and Wake a better chance that WSU and OrSU of landing on their feet.
(04-30-2023 08:42 PM)Jeff Smithers Wrote: [ -> ]WVU and Cincy: Absolutely they would want to go to the ACC. They'd get Pitt, Syracuse, & Louisville back on their schedules for both football and basketball. UConn would more than likely get an invite so that's a basketball matchup fans would want to see. Travel burdens would ease with the move.
Also, people seem to forget that the ACC has massive exit fees as well. The idea that the B1G and SEC are going to take so many teams that the ACC would dissolve just isn't going to happen. Those remaining schools have no reason to join a conference that stretches from the eastern to the mountain time zone when they can just stay in the ACC and steal a few eastern teams from the Big XII/Big East.
UCF: I'm not so sure about them. It all depends on what schools are left in the ACC a decade from now.
I think you're spot on.
I've also been saying this awhile.
If FSU and Clemson are the only ones that leave, then, following the way things seem to be going, the ACC will add 4 for 2.
And I think the schools you mention: Cin, WV, UCF, and UConn; would be very good choices for that.
As for exit fees, I think the Big12 would be motivated to let them off lightly if they were about to get several PAC schools.
And if more ACC schools head to the P2, USF, Tulane, and other former BigEast schools, are on deck.