I think he's seen as a great coach but man, at a certain point March performance has to weigh on your reputation. He is the first coach to be dismissed from the Tournament by a 16, 15 and 13 seed and it was done in successive Tournaments.
He must just run a great program but suck as a game coach. Something is up, that's for sure.
Eleven Top 3 finishes in the Big 10 have translated to 17 NCAA tournament wins.
(03-17-2023 08:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote: [ -> ]I think he's seen as a great coach but man, at a certain point March performance has to weigh on your reputation. He is the first coach to be dismissed from the Tournament by a 16, 15 and 13 seed and it was done in successive Tournaments.
He must just run a great program but suck as a game coach. Something is up, that's for sure.
Ultimately, you're judged by chips and NCAAT runs. He's coached for 18 seasons at Purdue and has zero chips and zero FF appearances. He does have 6 sweet sixteen appearances and 1 elite eight but that also translates to losing in the round of 32 or 64 eight times. That's not a great NCAAT resume.
Red flag was when the halftime reporter joked about him screaming at the team at the half. Something about not knowing what he said but the volume. There’s a time for that but down to a 16 seed isn’t it. He seems like he has one speed, mad, and can’t do anything else.
Matt Painter is a first ballot Hall of Famer.
(03-17-2023 10:05 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ]Matt Painter is a first ballot Hall of Famer.
Is he?
No. Not enough tournament success and I don't see that changing.
I mean, for all the years Keady was there and his teams, he only had two Elite 8’s. Had only five Sweet Sixteen’s to Painter’s count of six. If Keady is in the HoF, why not Painter?
Both have/had the yips…
(03-17-2023 11:13 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, for all the years Keady was there and his teams, he only had two Elite 8’s. Had only five Sweet Sixteen’s to Painter’s count of six. If Keady is in the HoF, why not Painter?
Both have/had the yips…
Does the HOF set a high enough bar? I guess it comes down to your definition of "elite." Keady finished his career with over 737 wins. Painter is a tad over 400. Keady had 6 B1G regular season chips. Painter has 4. Keady got one more E8 appearance over Painter. Keady won National Coach of the Year 5 times to Painter's one. FWIW, I don't count either one as "elite."
Would be very interested in Painter coaching at another high-major and Purdue getting its next head coach. Wonder what results would be.
Just off the top of my head I consider these elite coaches...
Wooden
Knight
K
Williams
Pitino
Calhoun
Smith
Self
Olson
Calipari
Donovan
Izzo
Boeheim
(03-17-2023 09:59 PM)Just Joe Wrote: [ -> ]Red flag was when the halftime reporter joked about him screaming at the team at the half. Something about not knowing what he said but the volume. There’s a time for that but down to a 16 seed isn’t it. He seems like he has one speed, mad, and can’t do anything else.
I don't know.
If there was EVER a reason for a coach to raise the volume on his team, it is being down to (and getting out played by) a 16 seed.
Jim Calhoun didn’t make a final four until his 27th season overall as HC and his 13th season at UConn. Painter is at 17 tournaments without a final four at Purdue but some times it just takes time.
Calhoun started his career at Northeastern. He had them in the tourney on a regular basis by his 8th season. Painter has coached only at Purdue. That's a pretty good program with B1G resources to only reach one E8 and zero F4. Yes, there is still time...
*EDIT* I stand corrected. Painter coached one year at Southern Illinois before taking over at Purdue.
In no way did I call this but did have FDU +9.5 which I knew was an easy win. But the last 4 minutes vs Penn State on Sunday was an eye opener. It was Eady Gourmet and no one else. The white guards were absolutely awful on Sunday and awful again on Friday. They went away from Eady the last 8 minutes and of course they lost. Even if he makes 50% of his shots they would win, plus he would have been fouled a bunch and converted most FTs. That was the better strategy than having Useless White1 and Useless White2 jack up 3s, turn the ball over, and miss FTs even though they are 80+% in regular season.
If any teams will lose to 16s it would be UVA and Purdue. They are simply bonehead coaches. UVA's last 2m was dreadful and that falls on Bennett since he obviously does no scenario planning with his players. But that's par for the course for him, just Bennett being Bennett.
(03-18-2023 12:17 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: [ -> ]Calhoun started his career at Northeastern. He had them in the tourney on a regular basis by his 8th season. Painter has coached only at Purdue. That's a pretty good program with B1G resources to only reach one E8 and zero F4. Yes, there is still time...
*EDIT* I stand corrected. Painter coached one year at Southern Illinois before taking over at Purdue.
Very true Calhoun did go to three elite eights at UConn before making the final four and has Northeastern in 5 NCAA tournaments his last six years there which is way more than Painter has done in the tournament obviously.
But it’s a tough spot for Purdue. Because they CAN do better but there’s a much better chance they hire a worse coach than Painter than a better one.
(03-17-2023 11:58 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2023 11:13 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, for all the years Keady was there and his teams, he only had two Elite 8’s. Had only five Sweet Sixteen’s to Painter’s count of six. If Keady is in the HoF, why not Painter?
Both have/had the yips…
Does the HOF set a high enough bar? I guess it comes down to your definition of "elite." Keady finished his career with over 737 wins. Painter is a tad over 400. Keady had 6 B1G regular season chips. Painter has 4. Keady got one more E8 appearance over Painter. Keady won National Coach of the Year 5 times to Painter's one. FWIW, I don't count either one as "elite."
I think this is a very valid question. Keady succeeded in achieving six Big Ten regular season titles in the eras of some great college basketball coaches. He was consistent in that respect, making 19 NCAA tournament appearances. I think he was a nearly elite regular season coach, but overshadowed by those who could succeed in the conference as much or more, and those who could succeed in the tournament. Keady is one of those all-time tournament underachievers in that respect. Looking at the entire picture: regular season success and the lack thereof in the post-season, I don't disagree with you about that overall "elite" status.
Painter also has been around long enough to succeed in an era of good Big Ten coaches, even though the conference's overall basketball success is debatable. If he stays at Purdue, he'll certainly exceed Keady's 493-win mark; probably in less time. Under him, he's had a #1 team; Keady was close to this something like maybe one or twice in his career?
I do think Painter is better than Keady already, though. Even if I'm not a personal fan of Big Ten basketball, and think there's a lot of junk within it at times, its top half is undeniably great. It's wider than the Big Ten of Keady's time. Painter has been within that top half many times, and within an era of one-and-done, transfer-mania, and now NIL? He may not have won more games at Purdue yet, but I think his performance to date has been more impressive overall.
(03-18-2023 12:05 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote: [ -> ]Jim Calhoun didn’t make a final four until his 27th season overall as HC and his 13th season at UConn. Painter is at 17 tournaments without a final four at Purdue but some times it just takes time.
John Wooden didn't make a Final Four in his first 17 seasons.
(03-18-2023 08:57 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2023 11:58 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-17-2023 11:13 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, for all the years Keady was there and his teams, he only had two Elite 8’s. Had only five Sweet Sixteen’s to Painter’s count of six. If Keady is in the HoF, why not Painter?
Both have/had the yips…
Does the HOF set a high enough bar? I guess it comes down to your definition of "elite." Keady finished his career with over 737 wins. Painter is a tad over 400. Keady had 6 B1G regular season chips. Painter has 4. Keady got one more E8 appearance over Painter. Keady won National Coach of the Year 5 times to Painter's one. FWIW, I don't count either one as "elite."
I think this is a very valid question. Keady succeeded in achieving six Big Ten regular season titles in the eras of some great college basketball coaches. He was consistent in that respect, making 19 NCAA tournament appearances. I think he was a nearly elite regular season coach, but overshadowed by those who could succeed in the conference as much or more, and those who could succeed in the tournament. Keady is one of those all-time tournament underachievers in that respect. Looking at the entire picture: regular season success and the lack thereof in the post-season, I don't disagree with you about that overall "elite" status.
Painter also has been around long enough to succeed in an era of good Big Ten coaches, even though the conference's overall basketball success is debatable. If he stays at Purdue, he'll certainly exceed Keady's 493-win mark; probably in less time. Under him, he's had a #1 team; Keady was close to this something like maybe one or twice in his career?
I do think Painter is better than Keady already, though. Even if I'm not a personal fan of Big Ten basketball, and think there's a lot of junk within it at times, its top half is undeniably great. It's wider than the Big Ten of Keady's time. Painter has been within that top half many times, and within an era of one-and-done, transfer-mania, and now NIL? He may not have won more games at Purdue yet, but I think his performance to date has been more impressive overall.
I agree overall with your points above. Let me be clear, Painter is a damn good coach. I just don't think he's "elite" yet. Losing to a 16 seed for only the second time in NCAAT history [since the expanded field] is a stinker on the resume when you've never even reached a final four.