(01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
(01-09-2023 10:53 PM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 12:00 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2023 07:08 PM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ]I think the most likely scenario is the PAC offers Tulane and offers Houston the support for AAU membership to join them. Tulane is AAU already.
I actually laughed when I read this. I mean, I get it though, why bother with a SoCal school when you can go to New Orleans for a program with very little support and no history of success. And UH is already out of the Pac's reach, they've been trying to get into the big 12 for 25 years and aren't going to fumble that away at the 1 yd line.
Not to disparage SDSU but
1) Tulane has played in a News Year Day bowl, SDSU has not
2) Tulane is already AAU and ranked 44 nationally
3) Houston and Tulane make much better travel partners than SMU and SDSU.
Houston would never move to the PAC
(01-10-2023 03:51 AM)Skyhawk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
I’m not convinced the PAC has enough votes to expand to 12, let alone 14.
(01-10-2023 08:40 AM)Owls9878 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 03:51 AM)Skyhawk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
I’m not convinced the PAC has enough votes to expand to 12, let alone 14.
Until the fate of the rest of the PAC is settled, they won’t expand.
If the PAC truly wants to survive:
1)acquire BYU from the Big 12
2)add SDSU
The Big 12 should replace BYU and adds 4 more to get to 16:
USF
Tulane/Temple
SMU
Memphis
East Carolina
(01-10-2023 08:43 AM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 08:40 AM)Owls9878 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 03:51 AM)Skyhawk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
I’m not convinced the PAC has enough votes to expand to 12, let alone 14.
Until the fate of the rest of the PAC is settled, they won’t expand.
If the PAC waits to expand until the fate of the other PAC schools is determined, which could take years, there will not be a PAC. They need to expand relatively soon. soon by 4.
(01-10-2023 08:43 AM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 08:40 AM)Owls9878 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 03:51 AM)Skyhawk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
I’m not convinced the PAC has enough votes to expand to 12, let alone 14.
Until the fate of the rest of the PAC is settled, they won’t expand.
If the PAC waits to expand until the fate of the other PAC schools is determined, which could take years, there will not be a PAC. They need to expand relatively soon by 4.
(01-10-2023 09:14 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]If the PAC truly wants to survive:
1)acquire BYU from the Big 12
2)add SDSU
The Big 12 should replace BYU and adds 4 more to get to 16:
USF
Tulane/Temple
SMU
Memphis
East Carolina
That would be a good focus for the XII. I’d take Tulane. Temple to independence and A10.
East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, East Carolina, Houston, Memphis, South Florida, Tulane, West Virginia
West: Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, SMU, TCU, Texas Tech
(01-10-2023 09:23 AM)Big Foote Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 08:43 AM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 08:40 AM)Owls9878 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 03:51 AM)Skyhawk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
I’m not convinced the PAC has enough votes to expand to 12, let alone 14.
Until the fate of the rest of the PAC is settled, they won’t expand.
If the PAC waits to expand until the fate of the other PAC schools is determined, which could take years, there will not be a PAC. They need to expand relatively soon by 4.
Repeat it with me. There will not be the votes required to support expanding by 4 teams, let alone by 2 teams.
(01-10-2023 07:58 AM)Big Foote Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 10:53 PM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 12:00 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2023 07:08 PM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ]I think the most likely scenario is the PAC offers Tulane and offers Houston the support for AAU membership to join them. Tulane is AAU already.
I actually laughed when I read this. I mean, I get it though, why bother with a SoCal school when you can go to New Orleans for a program with very little support and no history of success. And UH is already out of the Pac's reach, they've been trying to get into the big 12 for 25 years and aren't going to fumble that away at the 1 yd line.
Not to disparage SDSU but
1) Tulane has played in a News Year Day bowl, SDSU has not
2) Tulane is already AAU and ranked 44 nationally
3) Houston and Tulane make much better travel partners than SMU and SDSU.
Houston would never move to the PAC
Houston wants to be AAU. If being in the PAC helped them achieve that status they would consider it. But if Houston doesnt come than Tulane would not work.
(01-10-2023 09:14 AM)XLance Wrote: [ -> ]If the PAC truly wants to survive:
1)acquire BYU from the Big 12
2)add SDSU
The Big 12 should replace BYU and adds 4 more to get to 16:
USF
Tulane/Temple
SMU
Memphis
East Carolina
I dont see any of that happening. BYU is in a good place right now--no reason to jump into a Pac12 that is still likely to suffer more top end defections before this is all over. SDSU and SMU would be excellent additions for the Pac12. The Big 12 likely just needs to be patient and will get its 4-corners expansion (and perhaps even a 6 team expansion that gets it into the PTZ with 2 of Stanford, Cal, OSU, and WSU).
(01-09-2023 11:51 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I've been wondering the same. It's a move that would mimic the B12, the only difference is the P12 would become the P14. SDSU, UNLV, SMU, Tulane
Sent from my LM-G820 using CSNbbs mobile app
(01-10-2023 03:51 AM)Skyhawk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
In response to both of you it does feel like that's been the direction some of these conferences have been going for the sake of backfilling. Big 12 lost two, added four. AAC lost three, added six. Obviously that doesn't confirm they will add four, but right now I'm starting to think four is more likely than zero. And like you mention Skyhawk it could help them in having some preparation for more teams leaving.
(01-08-2023 06:36 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote: [ -> ]Putting Gonzaga first is just laughable. If the PAC expands, SDSU will be their first choice. Gonzaga would have to be paired with Hawaii or Air Force to get a look.
The PAC can't "stand pat." If they don't add SDSU they lose the SD market which they already claim via USC and UCLA. Standing Pat at 10 means they lose that market and gift it to the B12 which will take SDSU in a New York minute, likely Fresno as well.
Agree - the PAC can't stand pat with 10 teams when the other P5 conferences have an average of 14+ teams. They would have too much of a viewership deficit, and a lack of content for their broadcasters, so their value would decline.
There really isn't much of a drop-off in talent, if any, between the middle of the PAC and the high-end MWC teams. Fresno State proved that when they walloped WASU in their recent bowl game.
(01-10-2023 09:07 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 11:51 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I've been wondering the same. It's a move that would mimic the B12, the only difference is the P12 would become the P14. SDSU, UNLV, SMU, Tulane
Sent from my LM-G820 using CSNbbs mobile app
(01-10-2023 03:51 AM)Skyhawk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
In response to both of you it does feel like that's been the direction some of these conferences have been going for the sake of backfilling. Big 12 lost two, added four. AAC lost three, added six. Obviously that doesn't confirm they will add four, but right now I'm starting to think four is more likely than zero. And like you mention Skyhawk it could help them in having some preparation for more teams leaving.
Agree, the PAC should add four (SDSU, Fresno, 2 others (Boise & Utah St?).
(01-10-2023 09:37 PM)Milwaukee Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2023 06:36 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote: [ -> ]Putting Gonzaga first is just laughable. If the PAC expands, SDSU will be their first choice. Gonzaga would have to be paired with Hawaii or Air Force to get a look.
The PAC can't "stand pat." If they don't add SDSU they lose the SD market which they already claim via USC and UCLA. Standing Pat at 10 means they lose that market and gift it to the B12 which will take SDSU in a New York minute, likely Fresno as well.
Agree - the PAC can't stand pat with 10 teams when the other P5 conferences have an average of 14+ teams. They would have too much of a viewership deficit, and a lack of content for their broadcasters, so their value would decline.
There really isn't much of a drop-off in talent, if any, between the middle of the PAC and the high-end MWC teams. Fresno State proved that when they walloped WASU in their recent bowl game.
There is a difference in talent between any PAC school and any MWC school. Fresno State lost to USC and Oregon State during the 2022 season. In the LA Bowl, Washington State was without three of their top four wide receivers. Two went into the transfer portal, one was injured. The WSU offensive coordinator had left for the head coaching job at Texas State. Hopefully he can turn that around. The top defensive player opted-out for the NFL and two other defensive starters had already hit the transfer portal. The starting free safety missed the game with an injury.
Fresno State played well in the game, but it was not a regular season game where you have your best players on the field. I would not read anything into that result.
(01-10-2023 09:39 PM)Milwaukee Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 09:07 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 11:51 PM)Once a Knight... Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I've been wondering the same. It's a move that would mimic the B12, the only difference is the P12 would become the P14. SDSU, UNLV, SMU, Tulane
Sent from my LM-G820 using CSNbbs mobile app
(01-10-2023 03:51 AM)Skyhawk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
In response to both of you it does feel like that's been the direction some of these conferences have been going for the sake of backfilling. Big 12 lost two, added four. AAC lost three, added six. Obviously that doesn't confirm they will add four, but right now I'm starting to think four is more likely than zero. And like you mention Skyhawk it could help them in having some preparation for more teams leaving.
Agree, the PAC should add four (SDSU, Fresno, 2 others (Boise & Utah St?).
I think this is what happens.
Better sooner than later.
(01-10-2023 03:51 AM)Skyhawk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 09:11 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's going to be SDSU and SMU. I just wonder if they go for four instead of two.
I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
Or, better yet, try for tOSU, Michigan and Alabama. Those are about as likely as getting BYU to U-turn to the Pac at this late stage.
(01-09-2023 10:53 PM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2023 12:00 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-08-2023 07:08 PM)Sactowndog Wrote: [ -> ]I think the most likely scenario is the PAC offers Tulane and offers Houston the support for AAU membership to join them. Tulane is AAU already.
I actually laughed when I read this. I mean, I get it though, why bother with a SoCal school when you can go to New Orleans for a program with very little support and no history of success. And UH is already out of the Pac's reach, they've been trying to get into the big 12 for 25 years and aren't going to fumble that away at the 1 yd line.
Not to disparage SDSU but
1) Tulane has played in a News Year Day bowl, SDSU has not
2) Tulane is already AAU and ranked 44 nationally
3) Houston and Tulane make much better travel partners than SMU and SDSU.
Yeah, the Pac needs to go for elite-tier Academics over Athletics right now. That's the kind of thinking that got them into their current mess. And Tulane has had 2 good seasons in my lifetime, let's see them keep it up for a decade or so and actually, you know, build a following before penciling them in for the Pac.
The Pac's going with SDSU + 1-3, travel partners for potential new additions has not come up a single time in their discussions I'd wager.
(01-10-2023 11:42 AM)Owls9878 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 09:23 AM)Big Foote Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 08:43 AM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 08:40 AM)Owls9878 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-10-2023 03:51 AM)Skyhawk Wrote: [ -> ]I think you may very well be right about more than 2.
It occurred to me earlier today to look at the conference if one of the 3 top targets was gone. ie looking at the PAC without WA, or instead without Stanford.
Changes the "feel" of the conference a bit.
So if at least 1 or 2 schools are likely leaving, adding 3 or 4 seems smart.
Add SDSU, Fresno state, UNLV, and BSU.
If all 3 (WA, OR, Stanford) leave, also try for BYU.
Let's presume Colorado also leaves, and add Gonzaga and Hawaii.
That package is a nice regional conference, which should be enough to get a decent media deal.
PAC
WSU, OSU, BSU, BYU, Utah, Gonzaga / Hawaii
Cal, Fresno state, SDSU, AZ, AZ state, UNLV
I’m not convinced the PAC has enough votes to expand to 12, let alone 14.
Until the fate of the rest of the PAC is settled, they won’t expand.
If the PAC waits to expand until the fate of the other PAC schools is determined, which could take years, there will not be a PAC. They need to expand relatively soon by 4.
Repeat it with me. There will not be the votes required to support expanding by 4 teams, let alone by 2 teams.
Wilzano and Dan Patrick are confident that there are enough votes to get at least one more team (SDSU). You think they'll go to 11 and call it a day, or do you have better sources than those guys and you're certain they'll stay at 10? Or is that just your opinion?
(01-09-2023 11:05 PM)Owls9878 Wrote: [ -> ]Add SDSU and UNLV or don’t do anything at all.
I fail to see what, if any, appeal SMU has to the existing PAC members.
SMU can offer a few things:
1. Being in the DFW market would not be a bad thing. It is the 5th largest TV market. Getting into an SEC/Big 12 market could be interesting.
2. It might help for football recruiting in Texas. Oregon has signed five four-star football recruits from Texas in the 2023 class. Other Pac-12 schools are recruiting the area, but not with the degree of success that Oregon has had. SMU in the Pac-12 might help.
3. In the 2022 season, SMU played two home games in the 12:00pm EST time slot. One was on ESPN and the other on ESPNU. They could help the Pac-12 get into that noon time slot.
4. They are strong academically. They are not AAU, but they should be acceptable to the conference.