CSNbbs

That is damning evidence. I mean... it's right there on the screen, GRAPHICALLY in front of you. READ IT, PEOPLE.

out of a sample size of only 2 other coaches and a 10 season period??

(11-28-2022 03:11 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]out of a sample size of only 2 other coaches and a 10 season period??

It's the whole thing so it's not a sample size. If you want to see how we looked before joining the American here is the link.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/sch...index.html

Would be nice if one of the mods could create an "I Wish They'd Fire Silverfield" mega thread and combine all the individual threads into one tidy place.

(11-28-2022 03:11 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]out of a sample size of only 2 other coaches and a 10 season period??

Yes. We determined what we want out of our football program over the last 10 years. We saw what winning is like. If you want to harken back to the previous era of losing football, you go right ahead.

(11-28-2022 03:21 PM)RCM1029 Wrote: [ -> ]

Would be nice if one of the mods could create an "I Wish They'd Fire Silverfield" mega thread and combine all the individual threads into one tidy place.

All I'm doing is pointing what he has done in conference. I don't wish for any coach to be fired.

Just goes to show you can't make some people happy.

I have enjoyed the season and we we so close to having a better record. I enjoyed watching the team improve.

But fire the coach is like saying women can have a *****. Some of you will agree that women can have a *****. However, I've see a lot of women naked and I thank the lord that I never got that surprise.

When the HERFF boys finish that time machine, we can go back and fix all this crap.

(11-28-2022 04:06 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 03:11 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]out of a sample size of only 2 other coaches and a 10 season period??

Yes. We determined what we want out of our football program over the last 10 years. We saw what winning is like. If you want to harken back to the previous era of losing football, you go right ahead.

The example and the thread title is a horrible one because it reads as if it is an extreme outlier... when there were not enough seasons or coaches to really create a trend in terms of overall coaching periods.

Now if he said our program is on a downward trajectory with Silverfield, I would agree 100%. Weve seen it before with our program many times. With Finch, we were on a downward trajectory just a year after Kirk left, and if not for Penny and Vaughn, and then Henderson and Wright soon after all being from Memphis or related to someone on staff, it would have been a straight line downward. But if I said hes the first coach since Kirk to have this many losses, that would be a stupid statement.

As for determining what we want out of the program, those doing the spending, the hiring, and then the recruiting need to want it. Hiring Silverfield seemed to me to be almost as dumb as hiring Pastner... not quite as dumb but close.

(11-28-2022 05:23 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote: [ -> ]Just goes to show you can't make some people happy.

I have enjoyed the season and we we so close to having a better record. I enjoyed watching the team improve.

But fire the coach is like saying women can have a *****. Some of you will agree that women can have a *****. However, I've see a lot of women naked and I thank the lord that I never got that surprise.

I take it you haven’t checked out the pom squad lately

(11-28-2022 05:58 PM)Eagleonpar Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 05:23 PM)Hernando Hills Tiger Wrote: [ -> ]Just goes to show you can't make some people happy.

I have enjoyed the season and we we so close to having a better record. I enjoyed watching the team improve.

But fire the coach is like saying women can have a *****. Some of you will agree that women can have a *****. However, I've see a lot of women naked and I thank the lord that I never got that surprise.

I take it you haven’t checked out the pom squad lately

Thankfully I have not.

Damn how we get into the Big East with the Porter years?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

(11-28-2022 05:48 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 04:06 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 03:11 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]out of a sample size of only 2 other coaches and a 10 season period??

Yes. We determined what we want out of our football program over the last 10 years. We saw what winning is like. If you want to harken back to the previous era of losing football, you go right ahead.

The example and the thread title is a horrible one because it reads as if it is an extreme outlier... when there were not enough seasons or coaches to really create a trend in terms of overall coaching periods.

Now if he said our program is on a downward trajectory with Silverfield, I would agree 100%. Weve seen it before with our program many times. With Finch, we were on a downward trajectory just a year after Kirk left, and if not for Penny and Vaughn, and then Henderson and Wright soon after all being from Memphis or related to someone on staff, it would have been a straight line downward. But if I said hes the first coach since Kirk to have this many losses, that would be a stupid statement.

As for determining what we want out of the program, those doing the spending, the hiring, and then the recruiting need to want it. Hiring Silverfield seemed to me to be almost as dumb as hiring Pastner... not quite as dumb but close.

This feels like an argument on just semantics. You're talking about trend, trajectory, and outlier. I'm only talking true and false. The other coaches put together seven straight seasons of winning conference records and one combined season being under .500 in the American (the first season). Compared to what they did he is the only one to have two seasons under .500. Until we get another coach that does the same thing in the American, Silverfield is the only one.

The comparison to the basketball side isn't a good one. It only uses Finch in comparison to the prior coach and leaves out Coach Yates' time in the Metro. I didn't say Silverfield is the "first since". I said he's the only one. Likewise using the basketball example Dana Kirk is the only Memphis basketball coach to have multiple conference records under .500 in the Metro. Eventually making the Final Four shows improvement (trajectory) and makes that more tolerable, but it doesn't make it false.

If you can say these things are false and show why then great I'm more than willing to acknowledge my mistakes. Right now I really don't see other reasons of arguing against wording when unless I missed something the wording is true. I'm not saying nor could say you're wrong. It's just that it feels like we have a difference in interpretation because were are looking at the same info very differently.

(11-28-2022 06:28 PM)fsquid Wrote: [ -> ]Damn how we get into the Big East with the Porter years?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Yeah looking back at his two years and Coach West's last year makes that a good question. I could see that being interpreted by some as we don't need to put much effort in football to move up to a conference. Or seeing that there has been some, though short, effort put in and wondering why we didn't get at Big 12 invite when we got the Big East invite after that level of performance.

(11-28-2022 07:25 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 05:48 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 04:06 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 03:11 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]out of a sample size of only 2 other coaches and a 10 season period??

Yes. We determined what we want out of our football program over the last 10 years. We saw what winning is like. If you want to harken back to the previous era of losing football, you go right ahead.

The example and the thread title is a horrible one because it reads as if it is an extreme outlier... when there were not enough seasons or coaches to really create a trend in terms of overall coaching periods.

Now if he said our program is on a downward trajectory with Silverfield, I would agree 100%. Weve seen it before with our program many times. With Finch, we were on a downward trajectory just a year after Kirk left, and if not for Penny and Vaughn, and then Henderson and Wright soon after all being from Memphis or related to someone on staff, it would have been a straight line downward. But if I said hes the first coach since Kirk to have this many losses, that would be a stupid statement.

As for determining what we want out of the program, those doing the spending, the hiring, and then the recruiting need to want it. Hiring Silverfield seemed to me to be almost as dumb as hiring Pastner... not quite as dumb but close.

This feels like an argument on just semantics. You're talking about trend, trajectory, and outlier. I'm only talking true and false. The other coaches put together seven straight seasons of winning conference records and one combined season being under .500 in the American (the first season). Compared to what they did he is the only one to have two seasons under .500. Until we get another coach that does the same thing in the American, Silverfield is the only one.

The comparison to the basketball side isn't a good one. It only uses Finch in comparison to the prior coach and leaves out Coach Yates' time in the Metro. I didn't say Silverfield is the "first since". I said he's the only one. Likewise using the basketball example Dana Kirk is the only Memphis basketball coach to have multiple conference records under .500 in the Metro. Eventually making the Final Four shows improvement (trajectory) and makes that more tolerable, but it doesn't make it false.

If you can say these things are false and show why then great I'm more than willing to acknowledge my mistakes. Right now I really don't see other reasons of arguing against wording when unless I missed something the wording is true. I'm not saying nor could say you're wrong. It's just that it feels like we have a difference in interpretation because were are looking at the same info very differently.

(11-28-2022 06:28 PM)fsquid Wrote: [ -> ]Damn how we get into the Big East with the Porter years?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Yeah looking back at his two years and Coach West's last year makes that a good question. I could see that being interpreted by some as we don't need to put much effort in football to move up to a conference. Or seeing that there has been some, though short, effort put in and wondering why we didn't get at Big 12 invite when we got the Big East invite after that level of performance.

I think a statement can be true many times, but the intent of the statement can create a lack of truth. For example, people can get on here after one game and yell "Alo plus 26!!!". While that may be technically true, the intent of exclaiming that is to say that those that are critical of Alo are ridiculous and that he is in truth extremely valuable to the team. I wont argue that he is not valuable to the team, only that those that complain that Penny favors him despite his limitations, and that this has created grievances with more talented players, have a very valid point.

In this case, the statement that he is the only Memphis coach in American conference history.. the emphasis seems to be on the word ONLY.. but there are ONLY two others. He isnt the coach those two were no doubt. Maybe my arguement is silly and Im just snowed in the shithole town I live in with nothing better to do.. but for example if I told you that today it is raining and it is the first time it has rained ever in the history of my town.. you might think wow, thats crazy.. but if you looked it up and saw that the town was only incorporated 8 days prior, you would think well that isnt that big a deal afterall

Only Tigers coach to defeat UCF in AAC era.

Well, judging JUST the AAC years seems to me to be a reasonable data set. It separates our history into a reasonable segment that is unlike previous segments in that, we had just gone through a concerted effort by the administration to move football forward, even going so far as to have Lou Holtz speak to the boosters. We turned a corner as a result of a concerted effort on the part of the admin AND the fan base. I say all of that to say, the last three coaches have operated in an environment that in my mind is totally different than all others previous.

(11-28-2022 07:41 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 07:25 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 05:48 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 04:06 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 03:11 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]out of a sample size of only 2 other coaches and a 10 season period??

Yes. We determined what we want out of our football program over the last 10 years. We saw what winning is like. If you want to harken back to the previous era of losing football, you go right ahead.

The example and the thread title is a horrible one because it reads as if it is an extreme outlier... when there were not enough seasons or coaches to really create a trend in terms of overall coaching periods.

Now if he said our program is on a downward trajectory with Silverfield, I would agree 100%. Weve seen it before with our program many times. With Finch, we were on a downward trajectory just a year after Kirk left, and if not for Penny and Vaughn, and then Henderson and Wright soon after all being from Memphis or related to someone on staff, it would have been a straight line downward. But if I said hes the first coach since Kirk to have this many losses, that would be a stupid statement.

As for determining what we want out of the program, those doing the spending, the hiring, and then the recruiting need to want it. Hiring Silverfield seemed to me to be almost as dumb as hiring Pastner... not quite as dumb but close.

This feels like an argument on just semantics. You're talking about trend, trajectory, and outlier. I'm only talking true and false. The other coaches put together seven straight seasons of winning conference records and one combined season being under .500 in the American (the first season). Compared to what they did he is the only one to have two seasons under .500. Until we get another coach that does the same thing in the American, Silverfield is the only one.

The comparison to the basketball side isn't a good one. It only uses Finch in comparison to the prior coach and leaves out Coach Yates' time in the Metro. I didn't say Silverfield is the "first since". I said he's the only one. Likewise using the basketball example Dana Kirk is the only Memphis basketball coach to have multiple conference records under .500 in the Metro. Eventually making the Final Four shows improvement (trajectory) and makes that more tolerable, but it doesn't make it false.

If you can say these things are false and show why then great I'm more than willing to acknowledge my mistakes. Right now I really don't see other reasons of arguing against wording when unless I missed something the wording is true. I'm not saying nor could say you're wrong. It's just that it feels like we have a difference in interpretation because were are looking at the same info very differently.

(11-28-2022 06:28 PM)fsquid Wrote: [ -> ]Damn how we get into the Big East with the Porter years?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Yeah looking back at his two years and Coach West's last year makes that a good question. I could see that being interpreted by some as we don't need to put much effort in football to move up to a conference. Or seeing that there has been some, though short, effort put in and wondering why we didn't get at Big 12 invite when we got the Big East invite after that level of performance.

I think a statement can be true many times, but the intent of the statement can create a lack of truth. For example, people can get on here after one game and yell "Alo plus 26!!!". While that may be technically true, the intent of exclaiming that is to say that those that are critical of Alo are ridiculous and that he is in truth extremely valuable to the team. I wont argue that he is not valuable to the team, only that those that complain that Penny favors him despite his limitations, and that this has created grievances with more talented players, have a very valid point.

In this case, the statement that he is the only Memphis coach in American conference history.. the emphasis seems to be on the word ONLY.. but there are ONLY two others. He isnt the coach those two were no doubt. Maybe my arguement is silly and Im just snowed in the shithole town I live in with nothing better to do.. but for example if I told you that today it is raining and it is the first time it has rained ever in the history of my town.. you might think wow, thats crazy.. but if you looked it up and saw that the town was only incorporated 8 days prior, you would think well that isnt that big a deal afterall

I can definitely say I don't think it's silly. Not everyone will have the same view on everything so for me in situations like this I try to understand the opposing view(s) to see what I might be missing. But yes the emphasis is on the only. I agree there are only two others to compare. But other than that first season in the conference even in what are considered underperforming seasons they still managed to finish above .500 in conference. The 2018 season seems to be the main season pointed out for that in this time frame. Norvell still managed to stay above .500 and even made the CCG. Now that could also be a reflection of our division, but he still made it.

It definitely comes down to perspective. While it is only three coaches in the discussion, they have all had about the same amount of time in the conference. I think that's what makes it stick out to me because it happened in a very similar length of time. Just like because of perspective I couldn't use the town incorporation and weather as a comparison because the town doesn't have control over the weather like a coach does with their team's season.

(11-28-2022 08:29 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 07:41 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 07:25 PM)Alanda Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 05:48 PM)Alcalde2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-28-2022 04:06 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. We determined what we want out of our football program over the last 10 years. We saw what winning is like. If you want to harken back to the previous era of losing football, you go right ahead.

The example and the thread title is a horrible one because it reads as if it is an extreme outlier... when there were not enough seasons or coaches to really create a trend in terms of overall coaching periods.

Now if he said our program is on a downward trajectory with Silverfield, I would agree 100%. Weve seen it before with our program many times. With Finch, we were on a downward trajectory just a year after Kirk left, and if not for Penny and Vaughn, and then Henderson and Wright soon after all being from Memphis or related to someone on staff, it would have been a straight line downward. But if I said hes the first coach since Kirk to have this many losses, that would be a stupid statement.

As for determining what we want out of the program, those doing the spending, the hiring, and then the recruiting need to want it. Hiring Silverfield seemed to me to be almost as dumb as hiring Pastner... not quite as dumb but close.

This feels like an argument on just semantics. You're talking about trend, trajectory, and outlier. I'm only talking true and false. The other coaches put together seven straight seasons of winning conference records and one combined season being under .500 in the American (the first season). Compared to what they did he is the only one to have two seasons under .500. Until we get another coach that does the same thing in the American, Silverfield is the only one.

The comparison to the basketball side isn't a good one. It only uses Finch in comparison to the prior coach and leaves out Coach Yates' time in the Metro. I didn't say Silverfield is the "first since". I said he's the only one. Likewise using the basketball example Dana Kirk is the only Memphis basketball coach to have multiple conference records under .500 in the Metro. Eventually making the Final Four shows improvement (trajectory) and makes that more tolerable, but it doesn't make it false.

If you can say these things are false and show why then great I'm more than willing to acknowledge my mistakes. Right now I really don't see other reasons of arguing against wording when unless I missed something the wording is true. I'm not saying nor could say you're wrong. It's just that it feels like we have a difference in interpretation because were are looking at the same info very differently.

(11-28-2022 06:28 PM)fsquid Wrote: [ -> ]Damn how we get into the Big East with the Porter years?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Yeah looking back at his two years and Coach West's last year makes that a good question. I could see that being interpreted by some as we don't need to put much effort in football to move up to a conference. Or seeing that there has been some, though short, effort put in and wondering why we didn't get at Big 12 invite when we got the Big East invite after that level of performance.

I think a statement can be true many times, but the intent of the statement can create a lack of truth. For example, people can get on here after one game and yell "Alo plus 26!!!". While that may be technically true, the intent of exclaiming that is to say that those that are critical of Alo are ridiculous and that he is in truth extremely valuable to the team. I wont argue that he is not valuable to the team, only that those that complain that Penny favors him despite his limitations, and that this has created grievances with more talented players, have a very valid point.

In this case, the statement that he is the only Memphis coach in American conference history.. the emphasis seems to be on the word ONLY.. but there are ONLY two others. He isnt the coach those two were no doubt. Maybe my arguement is silly and Im just snowed in the shithole town I live in with nothing better to do.. but for example if I told you that today it is raining and it is the first time it has rained ever in the history of my town.. you might think wow, thats crazy.. but if you looked it up and saw that the town was only incorporated 8 days prior, you would think well that isnt that big a deal afterall

I can definitely say I don't think it's silly. Not everyone will have the same view on everything so for me in situations like this I try to understand the opposing view(s) to see what I might be missing. But yes the emphasis is on the only. I agree there are only two others to compare. But other than that first season in the conference even in what are considered underperforming seasons they still managed to finish above .500 in conference. The 2018 season seems to be the main season pointed out for that in this time frame. Norvell still managed to stay above .500 and even made the CCG. Now that could also be a reflection of our division, but he still made it.

It definitely comes down to perspective. While it is only three coaches in the discussion, they have all had about the same amount of time in the conference. I think that's what makes it stick out to me because it happened in a very similar length of time. Just like because of perspective I couldn't use the town incorporation and weather as a comparison because the town doesn't have control over the weather like a coach does with their team's season.

Overall, I think it was just a bad hire by the administration. Sure, he was popular with the players.. who cares. Fuente and Norvell elevated the expectations of the program and they shouldve sought out a more qualified candidate. Pastner was maybe the worst example of this in the history of sports.. ridiculous hire

(11-28-2022 06:28 PM)fsquid Wrote: [ -> ]Damn how we get into the Big East with the Porter years?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Because the basketball schools knew they were leaving so didn't care who joined at that point