Nine game conference schedules are terrible.
Case in point: The Big Ten's best win this year as a conference was Ohio State over Notre Dame. Their second-best win as a conference may have been Penn State's win (at home) against Auburn.
I understand why teams load up on cupcakes, but can you imagine trying to convince the playoff committee that Ohio State deserves to be involved in the playoff conversation when an entire conference has one meaningful win over an entire season?
Compare the Big Ten with the 8-game schedule of the SEC, which has posted wins against Clemson, Oregon, Utah, Cincinnati, Texas, and Louisville. Hell, even Arizona and Miami have more conference wins than any Power 5 program the Big Ten beat this season.
9 game conference schedules are not the problem. Those are 9 P5 schools guaranteed a year that you are going to play. Throw in 1 P5 ooc each year that's 10 P5 schools a year they usually play total.
The real problem is that the Big Ten and other P5 schools stiil play 2 OOC games a year against cupcakes. G5 or FCS teams. P5 schools should start scheduling 11 P5 schools a year and 1 G5/FCS each year. And yes that does mean giving up 1 home game every 2 years.
(11-26-2022 09:50 PM)OneSockUp Wrote: [ -> ]Nine game conference schedules are terrible.
Case in point: The Big Ten's best win this year as a conference was Ohio State over Notre Dame. Their second-best win as a conference may have been Penn State's in at home against Auburn.
I understand why teams load up on cupcakes, but can you imagine trying to convince the playoff committee that Ohio State deserves to be involved in the playoff conversation when an entire conference has one meaningful win over an entire season?
Compare the Big Ten with the 8-game schedule of the SEC, which has posted wins against Clemson, Oregon, Utah, Cincinnati, Texas, and Louisville. Hell, even Arizona and Miami have more conference wins than any Power 5 program the Big Ten beat this season.
It makes it easier to overrate them and get them into the playoffs.
As far as I’m concerned, Alabama lost to Texas.
Actually I think that everybody except for Alabama thinks that.
(11-26-2022 10:04 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]9 game conference schedules are not the problem. Those are 9 P5 schools guaranteed a year that you are going to play. Throw in 1 P5 ooc each year that's 10 P5 schools a year they usually play total.
The real problem is that the Big Ten and other P5 schools stiil play 2 OOC games a year against cupcakes. G5 or FCS teams. P5 schools should start scheduling 11 P5 schools a year and 1 G5/FCS each year. And yes that does mean giving up 1 home game every 2 years.
That's why I contrasted the Big Ten with the SEC with its 8 game schedule. More OOC games means more opportunities for meaningful games.
Until these teams stop selling out their home games, there is really no incentive for them to schedule anyone worthwhile. I understand that, and I'm just saying that it sucks.
Terrible for... ?
I agree that we'd get a better feel for a team's/conference's strength if they played a more national schedule. Larger conferences in some way facilitate this.
A shame the Alliance was only a rouse.
(11-26-2022 10:58 PM)OneSockUp Wrote: [ -> ] (11-26-2022 10:04 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]9 game conference schedules are not the problem. Those are 9 P5 schools guaranteed a year that you are going to play. Throw in 1 P5 ooc each year that's 10 P5 schools a year they usually play total.
The real problem is that the Big Ten and other P5 schools stiil play 2 OOC games a year against cupcakes. G5 or FCS teams. P5 schools should start scheduling 11 P5 schools a year and 1 G5/FCS each year. And yes that does mean giving up 1 home game every 2 years.
That's why I contrasted the Big Ten with the SEC with its 8 game schedule. More OOC games means more opportunities for meaningful games.
Until these teams stop selling out their home games, there is really no incentive for them to schedule anyone worthwhile. I understand that, and I'm just saying that it sucks.
It wasn't very long ago that every year the argument was reversed, but the SEC would take care of business in the postseason and it would start over again the next year.
No stever to be seen. He ain’t touching this one!
11 P5 games will never happen as long as P5 schools want/need 7 home games a year.
(11-26-2022 10:58 PM)OneSockUp Wrote: [ -> ] (11-26-2022 10:04 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]9 game conference schedules are not the problem. Those are 9 P5 schools guaranteed a year that you are going to play. Throw in 1 P5 ooc each year that's 10 P5 schools a year they usually play total.
The real problem is that the Big Ten and other P5 schools stiil play 2 OOC games a year against cupcakes. G5 or FCS teams. P5 schools should start scheduling 11 P5 schools a year and 1 G5/FCS each year. And yes that does mean giving up 1 home game every 2 years.
That's why I contrasted the Big Ten with the SEC with its 8 game schedule. More OOC games means more opportunities for meaningful games.
Until these teams stop selling out their home games, there is really no incentive for them to schedule anyone worthwhile. I understand that, and I'm just saying that it sucks.
I don't think it's about the 9 game schedule. Yes, the SEC had more P5 OOC games. But they won a much higher percentage of the games.
Big Ten went 5-6 vs P5 OOC, 5-7 if you count Cincinnati.
SEC went 12-4, of 14-4 if you could Cincinnati and BYU.
The Big Ten averaged .83 P5 OOC games per school, the SEC averaged 1.28 Is that because the SEC has more OOC games available? Maybe. But conference games *ARE* meaningful games.
But the Big Ten played an average of 9.85 P5 games, while the SEC played an average of 9.28 P5 games. The SEC played more tough OOC games, they also played more cupcakes.
If the SEC had lost half of their OOC games, they wouldn't look so much stronger than the Big Ten.
(11-26-2022 10:58 PM)OneSockUp Wrote: [ -> ] (11-26-2022 10:04 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]9 game conference schedules are not the problem. Those are 9 P5 schools guaranteed a year that you are going to play. Throw in 1 P5 ooc each year that's 10 P5 schools a year they usually play total.
The real problem is that the Big Ten and other P5 schools stiil play 2 OOC games a year against cupcakes. G5 or FCS teams. P5 schools should start scheduling 11 P5 schools a year and 1 G5/FCS each year. And yes that does mean giving up 1 home game every 2 years.
That's why I contrasted the Big Ten with the SEC with its 8 game schedule. More OOC games means more opportunities for meaningful games.
Until these teams stop selling out their home games, there is really no incentive for them to schedule anyone worthwhile. I understand that, and I'm just saying that it sucks.
What do you mean by meaningful games? Bama schedule Texas, Utah St, La-Monroe and Austin Peay in ooc. That's 9 P5 schools total and 3 cupcakes. You want more meaningful games? Have Bama schedule 9 conference games AND schedule Texas.
(11-27-2022 08:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote: [ -> ]The Big Ten averaged .83 P5 OOC games per school, the SEC averaged 1.28 Is that because the SEC has more OOC games available? Maybe. But conference games *ARE* meaningful games.
The SEC averaged 50% more OOC games against P5. Yes, that is because of the Big Ten's nine game conference schedule.
If you want to have any idea how strong a league is, out of conference records is the best, most objective metric to use.
(11-27-2022 09:28 AM)OneSockUp Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2022 08:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote: [ -> ]The Big Ten averaged .83 P5 OOC games per school, the SEC averaged 1.28 Is that because the SEC has more OOC games available? Maybe. But conference games *ARE* meaningful games.
The SEC averaged 50% more OOC games against P5. Yes, that is because of the Big Ten's nine game conference schedule.
If you want to have any idea how strong a league is, out of conference records is the best, most objective metric to use.
Yes, but you're pointing at the wrong number to demonstrate that the Big Ten isn't that good. It's not the 9 conference games vs 8. It's
kind of the 5 P5 OOC wins vs 12 or 14 . But it's really the 42% or 45% win percentage vs the SEC's 75% or 78%.
If the SEC had lost half of those games like the Big Ten did, I don't think you'd be saying "look how strong the SEC is, they PLAYED all those P5 OOC games."
(11-27-2022 09:56 AM)johnbragg Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2022 09:28 AM)OneSockUp Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2022 08:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote: [ -> ]The Big Ten averaged .83 P5 OOC games per school, the SEC averaged 1.28 Is that because the SEC has more OOC games available? Maybe. But conference games *ARE* meaningful games.
The SEC averaged 50% more OOC games against P5. Yes, that is because of the Big Ten's nine game conference schedule.
If you want to have any idea how strong a league is, out of conference records is the best, most objective metric to use.
Yes, but you're pointing at the wrong number to demonstrate that the Big Ten isn't that good. It's not the 9 conference games vs 8. It's kind of the 5 P5 OOC wins vs 12 or 14 . But it's really the 42% or 45% win percentage vs the SEC's 75% or 78%.
If the SEC had lost half of those games like the Big Ten did, I don't think you'd be saying "look how strong the SEC is, they PLAYED all those P5 OOC games."
My point is increasing that sample size would give us a much better metric.
It's not even just the P5 games we are missing out on. The SEC lost games against Liberty and App. State, but having more opportunities to prove themselves out of conference also gives more opportunities to lose out of conference.
(11-27-2022 10:24 AM)OneSockUp Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2022 09:56 AM)johnbragg Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2022 09:28 AM)OneSockUp Wrote: [ -> ] (11-27-2022 08:24 AM)johnbragg Wrote: [ -> ]The Big Ten averaged .83 P5 OOC games per school, the SEC averaged 1.28 Is that because the SEC has more OOC games available? Maybe. But conference games *ARE* meaningful games.
The SEC averaged 50% more OOC games against P5. Yes, that is because of the Big Ten's nine game conference schedule.
If you want to have any idea how strong a league is, out of conference records is the best, most objective metric to use.
Yes, but you're pointing at the wrong number to demonstrate that the Big Ten isn't that good. It's not the 9 conference games vs 8. It's kind of the 5 P5 OOC wins vs 12 or 14 . But it's really the 42% or 45% win percentage vs the SEC's 75% or 78%.
If the SEC had lost half of those games like the Big Ten did, I don't think you'd be saying "look how strong the SEC is, they PLAYED all those P5 OOC games."
My point is increasing that sample size would give us a much better metric.
I think the sample size on the metric is pretty much okay.
Big 12 clocks in at 8-3 or 9-4, 73% or 69%. Is the Big 12 about as good as the SEC this year?
PAC-12 is at 3-8 or 3-11 (losses to Boise State, 2 losses to BYU).
ACC, with their 8 game schedule, is at 7-11 or 8-12, 39 or 40%.
I think that's the data we need.
Quote:It's not even just the P5 games we are missing out on. The SEC lost games against Liberty and App. State, but having more opportunities to prove themselves out of conference also gives more opportunities to lose out of conference.