Hola amigoes. Maybe you find college football a most exciting and yet frustrating sport to watch. I find it more fun to watch than the professional game because there is less predictability and sometimes the underdog wins against all odds. But I find it frustrating too because it is most unfair to all but four teams every year known as the playoffs. Twice two of the teams came from the same conference the sec and this year Heather Dinich says there is the chance 3 teams from the sec could be in the playoffs, outrageous.
They say there will be a 12 team playoff soon. But without the correct changes it may be just as unfair and maladjusted as the current 4 team playoff. If only they would make it so ten of those 12 teams were simply all the conference champions with two more slots one for an independent like Notre Dame if they finish ranked and the highest second place team in one of the ten conferences to avoid duplicates of teams from the same conference then you could have all 114 teams theoretically at the beginning of the year competing for a real championship not based on biased judges as now like it were some eastern europe judges judging figure skating ensuring eastern europe athletes win. Northern last year would have been in it, and just to have the shot at winning the ncaa crown legitimately contested would give hope and interest at the college level throughout the country. Though I live in Bloomington and see and hear much about Illinois State in athletics I find that level two of ncaa football less interesting in small stadiums with less rabid fan bases and less gifted athletes than division one football. But at least they have a real competitive playoff system with 24 teams competing and ISU has gotten to a championship but lost to North Dakota State a team that could and has beaten ranked ncaa division one opponents. I dont know how much schools listen to fan bases but maybe if we wrote enough messages to the ncaa they might consider have a truly competitive ncaa divsion one football, or the sponsors of the playoffs like espn maybe they might listen to us.
I'm not so sure man... But welcome to the board.
Anyway.
It still surprises me how many people either fail to see or refuse to acknowledge the fact that a gulf exists between the best MAC school and like half of a conference like the SEC, let alone teams from the B1G, the PAC-12, Big 12, and the top teams in the ACC. And then you often have Notre Dame to throw into that mix of potential teams.
To think that the winner of the MAC should get an automatic bid into a championship tournament over the 2nd and even 3rd best teams in the SEC is being more than obtuse to how good those teams are.
(11-15-2022 08:24 PM)Big Red Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not so sure man... But welcome to the board.
Anyway.
It still surprises me how many people either fail to see or refuse to acknowledge the fact that a gulf exists between the best MAC school and like half of a conference like the SEC, let alone teams from the B1G, the PAC-12, Big 12, and the top teams in the ACC. And then you often have Notre Dame to throw into that mix of potential teams.
To think that the winner of the MAC should get an automatic bid into a championship tournament over the 2nd and even 3rd best teams in the SEC is being more than obtuse to how good those teams are.
No doubt. Teams like NIU are just competing for participation trophies. It’s not even like the NCAA pretends we are the same level or they wouldn’t seperate the conferences by P5 and G5. What other sport allows a lower level to pretend to compete with a much higher level?
Don’t want to open this can of worms but I’m still in favor of a 16 team G5 playoff. Anyway, we will just take the money and hope we can make a NY6 bowl every 50 to 75 years.
(11-15-2022 08:39 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2022 08:24 PM)Big Red Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not so sure man... But welcome to the board.
Anyway.
It still surprises me how many people either fail to see or refuse to acknowledge the fact that a gulf exists between the best MAC school and like half of a conference like the SEC, let alone teams from the B1G, the PAC-12, Big 12, and the top teams in the ACC. And then you often have Notre Dame to throw into that mix of potential teams.
To think that the winner of the MAC should get an automatic bid into a championship tournament over the 2nd and even 3rd best teams in the SEC is being more than obtuse to how good those teams are.
No doubt. Teams like NIU are just competing for participation trophies. It’s not even like the NCAA pretends we are the same level or they wouldn’t seperate the conferences by P5 and G5. What other sport allows a lower level to pretend to compete with a much higher level?
Don’t want to open this can of worms but I’m still in favor of a 16 team G5 playoff. Anyway, we will just take the money and hope we can make a NY6 bowl every 50 to 75 years.
G5s are in a hard place because by admitting they don't have a shot at competing with the giants of the sport, they very well could be undermining their own recruiting and/or fundraising. It's like, even though we all know we don't have a chance, we can't say it out loud and...actually...have to say what people want to hear out loud just to keep up the charade.
I know this has been hashed out a lot here and there are some of us who see it differently than most of us here but I too really don't see the benefits of barely keeping a program's head above water just to stay in a division that doesn't want us in it anyway.
But, on the other hand, I don't like the idea of dropping down to FCS either. So, I do kind of like your idea of creating another "level" to this between P5 and FCS but, make no bones about it, it would greatly affect recruiting and resources.
I think the talent gap some years between the top 5-6 P5 teams and the rest of college football is noticeable, but don't feel at all that the G5 differs in talent much at all from the rank and file P5 squads. If Kansas State, Purdue and Indiana will have a potential path to the new 16 team playoff each year, so should NIU, Toledo and Marshall.
I think the Orange Bowl game shows the divide best. We dominated the MAC but FSU athleticism was superior. The play that encapsulates this most was a third down run by Lynch. In MAC, he turned the corner and would have been gone. In Orange Bowl, their linebacker caught him short of first down
(11-16-2022 10:32 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]I think the Orange Bowl game shows the divide best. We dominated the MAC but FSU athleticism was superior. The play that encapsulates this most was a third down run by Lynch. In MAC, he turned the corner and would have been gone. In Orange Bowl, their linebacker caught him short of first down
That game was close until the end of the 3rd quarter, no? And if I recall Lynch tweaked his ankle in pre-game practice? Our ranking going in to that game was accurate, and I don't think Lynch was 100% for that game.
NIU has beaten plenty of Pig10 and big12 teams over the last few decades, and 90% of those victories were away games. If you regularly sent the middle of the pack P5 into Dekalb we would rack up our fare share of wins each season, no doubt.
(11-16-2022 10:53 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote: [ -> ] (11-16-2022 10:32 AM)klake87 Wrote: [ -> ]I think the Orange Bowl game shows the divide best. We dominated the MAC but FSU athleticism was superior. The play that encapsulates this most was a third down run by Lynch. In MAC, he turned the corner and would have been gone. In Orange Bowl, their linebacker caught him short of first down
That game was close until the end of the 3rd quarter, no? And if I recall Lynch tweaked his ankle in pre-game practice? Our ranking going in to that game was accurate, and I don't think Lynch was 100% for that game.
NIU has beaten plenty of Pig10 and big12 teams over the last few decades, and 90% of those victories were away games. If you regularly sent the middle of the pack P5 into Dekalb we would rack up our fare share of wins each season, no doubt.
NIU has only beaten 1 P5 who finished the season record over .500. That was the 2013 squad who was arguably one of the best 2 or 3 teams in the history of the program.
If NIU ever made a 12 or 16 team playoff they'd be ranked in that 12-16 area and have to face a top 4 P5 team who would handle them easily. A MAC champ is about equivalent to a .500 P5 team on the field. But even then the 6-6 P5 team will have superior talent, they just don't play up to their talent level. Whether that's coaching or injuries or whatever.
The MAC teams are composed of mostly C-level talent. The Middling P5 teams are composed of B level talent. The top P5 are obviously A-level talent. C talent can scheme around B talent and win. There's no scheming or fundamentals to get C talent to overcome A talent.
The OP seems to be reviving a 2016 proposal by NIU AD Sean T. Frazier for a separate G5 football national playoff. It fell flat when nobody else seemed to want it -- even other MAC schools shied away from commenting -- and it will fall flat now with the realignments that have occurred in the AAC and SBC. It was and is all about money, and a G5 playoff is a financial dream with no solid backing.
(11-16-2022 03:17 PM)pvk75 Wrote: [ -> ]The OP seems to be reviving a 2016 proposal by NIU AD Sean T. Frazier for a separate G5 football national playoff. It fell flat when nobody else seemed to want it -- even other MAC schools shied away from commenting -- and it will fall flat now with the realignments that have occurred in the AAC and SBC. It was and is all about money, and a G5 playoff is a financial dream with no solid backing.
I think the goal was financial independence for the G5s. It was probably an all or nothing idea. I have zero insight into it’s feasibility. But I also understand that plenty of G5s are on life support and could just fade away into FCS or cancellation.
(11-16-2022 10:07 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote: [ -> ]I think the talent gap some years between the top 5-6 P5 teams and the rest of college football is noticeable, but don't feel at all that the G5 differs in talent much at all from the rank and file P5 squads. If Kansas State, Purdue and Indiana will have a potential path to the new 16 team playoff each year, so should NIU, Toledo and Marshall.
Indiana has as much of a shot as any MAC Champion so let's not act like they actually have a shot of a championship.
Neither Indiana nor a MAC Champion should get an auto bid to the Football Playoffs unless they pass all the tests which is to win the B1G East Division and then beat the West leader. You do that, and that trumps anything a MAC Champ could ever accomplish.
But as it, no...Indiana doens't have a pathway to the playoffs because they aren't any good. Btw, they also beat Illinois, Western Kentucky (one of the better C-USA teams).
(11-16-2022 12:21 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: [ -> ]NIU has only beaten 1 P5 who finished the season record over .500. That was the 2013 squad who was arguably one of the best 2 or 3 teams in the history of the program.
Not true. We beat at least two other P5/BCS teams with winning records.
Maryland was 10-3 and destroyed West Virginia in a bowl in 2003.
Wake Forest had a winning record and beat Oregon in a bowl in 2002 when we beat them.
(11-16-2022 08:06 PM)epasnoopy Wrote: [ -> ] (11-16-2022 12:21 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: [ -> ]NIU has only beaten 1 P5 who finished the season record over .500. That was the 2013 squad who was arguably one of the best 2 or 3 teams in the history of the program.
Not true. We beat at least two other P5/BCS teams with winning records.
Maryland was 10-3 and destroyed West Virginia in a bowl in 2003.
Wake Forest had a winning record and beat Oregon in a bowl in 2002 when we beat them.
Fwiw, there are guys on this current Huskies team that were born in 2003. So, I'm not sure which side this bit of trivia was intended to support.
(11-15-2022 08:24 PM)Big Red Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not so sure man... But welcome to the board.
Anyway.
It still surprises me how many people either fail to see or refuse to acknowledge the fact that a gulf exists between the best MAC school and like half of a conference like the SEC, let alone teams from the B1G, the PAC-12, Big 12, and the top teams in the ACC. And then you often have Notre Dame to throw into that mix of potential teams.
To think that the winner of the MAC should get an automatic bid into a championship tournament over the 2nd and even 3rd best teams in the SEC is being more than obtuse to how good those teams are.
I agree. I also look at the NCAA BB tourney the same way with the automatic bids.i wish they take the best 64 teams and go from there. Yes, it is fun to see if Princeton can upset the #1 seed, but let's be honest, a team that wins a first round upset is not going to go too far.
If people say what about a Loyola or George Mason making the Final Four? In the those years, both teams were very good and would have been a top 64 team regardless if they won their conference tourney or not.
(11-18-2022 05:50 PM)Schaefer Beer Wrote: [ -> ] (11-15-2022 08:24 PM)Big Red Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not so sure man... But welcome to the board.
Anyway.
It still surprises me how many people either fail to see or refuse to acknowledge the fact that a gulf exists between the best MAC school and like half of a conference like the SEC, let alone teams from the B1G, the PAC-12, Big 12, and the top teams in the ACC. And then you often have Notre Dame to throw into that mix of potential teams.
To think that the winner of the MAC should get an automatic bid into a championship tournament over the 2nd and even 3rd best teams in the SEC is being more than obtuse to how good those teams are.
I agree. I also look at the NCAA BB tourney the same way with the automatic bids.i wish they take the best 64 teams and go from there. Yes, it is fun to see if Princeton can upset the #1 seed, but let's be honest, a team that wins a first round upset is not going to go too far.
If people say what about a Loyola or George Mason making the Final Four? In the those years, both teams were very good and would have been a top 64 team regardless if they won their conference tourney or not.
I'd actually go another route with the BB Tournament.
First, I'd reward the regular season conference champions with an automatic bid. I know these conferences want to entice the field to win their tournaments and are doing so with the bid coming from the tournaments, but this is how you get a 15-16 team in the tournament.
So, I would give every conference regular season champ an auto-bid then I could be enticed to offer a 2nd bid to the conference champ if it's different from the regular season champ. I really don't think we'd see teams tank just to get a rival in the tournament with them so any talk of that is unnecessary and, if it became a problem, then it could be dealt with.
After those champs are slotted in, then go with the regular slotting system. Heck, I might even make a separate play-in tournament (kind of like the play-in games they already are doing which make literally no sense to me how a 16 seed can automatically get in yet two 11 seeds have to play each other for the right to play the 6 seed, anyway...).
This way, you get 1 or 2 from that field to slot in somewhere.
Oh..also, if one of those tournament champs was not a regular season champ, but would have gotten in anyway, they don't have to play in the play-in tournament. This play-in tournament would just be for teams that wouldn't have gotten in....like....a MAC school or basically most mid-major conferences. This could even be determined (which teams are relegated to the play-in tournament either before the season or at some point during the season.
Anyway, it gets a little messy when you don't know how many teams would make that play-in tournament. Maybe have it at 1 location and then adjust the seeding with byes or whatever and possibly play 2 games in 1 day, if need be.
ESPN would sh!t itself over the chance to broadcast the entire play-in tournament in like a 2 or 3 day period. And the sports books would go ape sh!t over it.