CSNbbs

ESPN gets involved and decides to broker some moves between the ACC, Big XII, and Pac-12, like this:

WVU and UCF to the ACC
Colorado and Utah to the Big XII
Pac either sits at 8 or adds San Diego St and one other (Boise St?)

Q: How would that deal be viewed by Big XII fans? (Essentially trade WVU & UCF for Colorado & Utah)

Ummm... No.

If something like were brought forth by ESPN:

ACC (14) + Cincinnati, West Virginia
PAC (10) + Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, TCU, Texas Tech
XII adds from G5

ACC can't add anyone, Miami and FSU are ready to bolt as soon as possible. ACC GOR will be challenged in court if ACC adds teams before the GOR expires.

2030s will have ACC poached by the Power 2. Anywhere from 4-8 teams to SEC/B1G.

Big 12 might come in and sweep up the leftovers to become the 3rd Mega Conference.

Can't speak for the conference but from Cincy fan perspective, the only teams that I have interest playing in on a regular basis outside of (Florida St., Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia Tech) all of which or most are likely gone in 10-15 years are Louisville, Pitt, and Virginia Tech.

I like the Big 12 in general much better (even though many think Cincy aligns more with the ACC). I have no interest in playing Boston College, Syracuse, NC St., Duke, Wake Forest.

I also hate ESPN and don't want to sell the entire conference out to them.

So, how about when your conference goes kaboom we invite V-Tech, Louisville, and Pitt and if Georgia Tech or Miami don't make it then them as well to become the clear cut third best conference with the 4 corners?

(09-07-2022 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]ESPN gets involved and decides to broker some moves between the ACC, Big XII, and Pac-12, like this:

WVU and UCF to the ACC
Colorado and Utah to the Big XII
Pac either sits at 8 or adds San Diego St and one other (Boise St?)

Q: How would that deal be viewed by Big XII fans? (Essentially trade WVU & UCF for Colorado & Utah)

That would be a bad deal for the B12. Even if the B12 is willing to add Colorado and Utah we already have Utah covered with BYU so its only a content add and a move to further destabilize the PAC 12. Colorado fits in the area and is another market but it hasn't been competitive like WVU has nor does it have the potential UCF does.

…Eleanor Roosevelt could fly?

(That’s an age test for all you whippersnappers…)

But to the original post, I don’t think that would happen.

(09-07-2022 02:05 PM)natibeast2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Can't speak for the conference but from Cincy fan perspective, the only teams that I have interest playing in on a regular basis outside of (Florida St., Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia Tech) all of which or most are likely gone in 10-15 years are Louisville, Pitt, and Virginia Tech.

I like the Big 12 in general much better (even though many think Cincy aligns more with the ACC). I have no interest in playing Boston College, Syracuse, NC St., Duke, Wake Forest.

I also hate ESPN and don't want to sell the entire conference out to them.

So, how about when your conference goes kaboom we invite V-Tech, Louisville, and Pitt and if Georgia Tech or Miami don't make it then them as well to become the clear cut third best conference with the 4 corners?

Swap Georgia Tech with NC State and I'm all in on this.

(09-07-2022 05:55 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote: [ -> ]…Eleanor Roosevelt could fly?

(That’s an age test for all you whippersnappers…)

But to the original post, I don’t think that would happen.

What if wishes were fishes. There would be no room for water in the sea.

And leave Cincinnati on an island for no reason? Why would ESPN and the Big 12 agree to something like that!?

(09-07-2022 12:39 PM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]If something like were brought forth by ESPN:

ACC (14) + Cincinnati, West Virginia
PAC (10) + Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, TCU, Texas Tech
XII adds from G5

That's not happening either. It's funny how everyone says that the Big 12 is together because they're not valuable, now they want to send our members to different P5 conferences.

(09-07-2022 03:39 PM)Win5002 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-07-2022 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]ESPN gets involved and decides to broker some moves between the ACC, Big XII, and Pac-12, like this:

WVU and UCF to the ACC
Colorado and Utah to the Big XII
Pac either sits at 8 or adds San Diego St and one other (Boise St?)

Q: How would that deal be viewed by Big XII fans? (Essentially trade WVU & UCF for Colorado & Utah)

That would be a bad deal for the B12. Even if the B12 is willing to add Colorado and Utah we already have Utah covered with BYU so its only a content add and a move to further destabilize the PAC 12. Colorado fits in the area and is another market but it hasn't been competitive like WVU has nor does it have the potential UCF does.

So you're thinking Big XII westward expansion needs to include Arizona or ASU? Makes sense. I suggested Utah as a natural rivalry game with BYU. Maybe y'all end up with all four: Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Arizona State?

(09-08-2022 09:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-07-2022 03:39 PM)Win5002 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-07-2022 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]ESPN gets involved and decides to broker some moves between the ACC, Big XII, and Pac-12, like this:

WVU and UCF to the ACC
Colorado and Utah to the Big XII
Pac either sits at 8 or adds San Diego St and one other (Boise St?)

Q: How would that deal be viewed by Big XII fans? (Essentially trade WVU & UCF for Colorado & Utah)

That would be a bad deal for the B12. Even if the B12 is willing to add Colorado and Utah we already have Utah covered with BYU so its only a content add and a move to further destabilize the PAC 12. Colorado fits in the area and is another market but it hasn't been competitive like WVU has nor does it have the potential UCF does.

So you're thinking Big XII westward expansion needs to include Arizona or ASU? Makes sense. I suggested Utah as a natural rivalry game with BYU. Maybe y'all end up with all four: Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Arizona State?

Yormark is interested westward because the B1G is/was. It's survival mode for every conference and the B12 has already been burned several times. He has the green light to be aggressive and if he can poach two more schools from the P12 then that would really put them on life support. He also knows B1G Commish Kevin Warren and the two have talked. I wonder if Yormark already knows the B1G will pursue Oregon & Washington. That is the kill shot to the P12 in terms of relevancy and eliminates a competitor to the B12. From all reports, Arizona is interested to make the jump but not solo if at all possible. Football drives the bus but imagine adding Arizona to the B12 hoops league. Wowzer! It would seem Yormark just needs to convince one other four corner schools to come with Zona and it's a done deal. That's my take anyway.

(09-08-2022 09:54 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-08-2022 09:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-07-2022 03:39 PM)Win5002 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-07-2022 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]ESPN gets involved and decides to broker some moves between the ACC, Big XII, and Pac-12, like this:

WVU and UCF to the ACC
Colorado and Utah to the Big XII
Pac either sits at 8 or adds San Diego St and one other (Boise St?)

Q: How would that deal be viewed by Big XII fans? (Essentially trade WVU & UCF for Colorado & Utah)

That would be a bad deal for the B12. Even if the B12 is willing to add Colorado and Utah we already have Utah covered with BYU so its only a content add and a move to further destabilize the PAC 12. Colorado fits in the area and is another market but it hasn't been competitive like WVU has nor does it have the potential UCF does.

So you're thinking Big XII westward expansion needs to include Arizona or ASU? Makes sense. I suggested Utah as a natural rivalry game with BYU. Maybe y'all end up with all four: Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Arizona State?

Yormark is interested westward because the B1G is/was. It's survival mode for every conference and the B12 has already been burned several times. He has the green light to be aggressive and if he can poach two more schools from the P12 then that would really put them on life support. He also knows B1G Commish Kevin Warren and the two have talked. I wonder if Yormark already knows the B1G will pursue Oregon & Washington. That is the kill shot to the P12 in terms of relevancy and eliminates a competitor to the B12. From all reports, Arizona is interested to make the jump but not solo if at all possible. Football drives the bus but imagine adding Arizona to the B12 hoops league. Wowzer! It would seem Yormark just needs to convince one other four corner schools to come with Zona and it's a done deal. That's my take anyway.

I expect the Arizona's to jump soon (I'd say a month or two) after that it'll be a frenzy for the other schools to get a life raft to the Big 12 including Oregon & Washington. Oregon and Washington are not going to risk being left behind while the four corner schools all ride off the the safety of the Big 12. So I think we end up adding Arizona & ASU shortly followed by Oregon & Washington.

(09-08-2022 10:53 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-08-2022 09:54 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-08-2022 09:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-07-2022 03:39 PM)Win5002 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-07-2022 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]ESPN gets involved and decides to broker some moves between the ACC, Big XII, and Pac-12, like this:

WVU and UCF to the ACC
Colorado and Utah to the Big XII
Pac either sits at 8 or adds San Diego St and one other (Boise St?)

Q: How would that deal be viewed by Big XII fans? (Essentially trade WVU & UCF for Colorado & Utah)

That would be a bad deal for the B12. Even if the B12 is willing to add Colorado and Utah we already have Utah covered with BYU so its only a content add and a move to further destabilize the PAC 12. Colorado fits in the area and is another market but it hasn't been competitive like WVU has nor does it have the potential UCF does.

So you're thinking Big XII westward expansion needs to include Arizona or ASU? Makes sense. I suggested Utah as a natural rivalry game with BYU. Maybe y'all end up with all four: Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Arizona State?

Yormark is interested westward because the B1G is/was. It's survival mode for every conference and the B12 has already been burned several times. He has the green light to be aggressive and if he can poach two more schools from the P12 then that would really put them on life support. He also knows B1G Commish Kevin Warren and the two have talked. I wonder if Yormark already knows the B1G will pursue Oregon & Washington. That is the kill shot to the P12 in terms of relevancy and eliminates a competitor to the B12. From all reports, Arizona is interested to make the jump but not solo if at all possible. Football drives the bus but imagine adding Arizona to the B12 hoops league. Wowzer! It would seem Yormark just needs to convince one other four corner schools to come with Zona and it's a done deal. That's my take anyway.

I expect the Arizona's to jump soon (I'd say a month or two) after that it'll be a frenzy for the other schools to get a life raft to the Big 12 including Oregon & Washington. Oregon and Washington are not going to risk being left behind while the four corner schools all ride off the the safety of the Big 12. So I think we end up adding Arizona & ASU shortly followed by Oregon & Washington.

I don't think it's very likely Oregon and Washington bail. I believe they will end up in the B1G at some point and they can negotiate higher shares to keep the P12/P10 intact until their phones ring from Kevin Warren's office.

(09-08-2022 11:02 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-08-2022 10:53 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-08-2022 09:54 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-08-2022 09:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-07-2022 03:39 PM)Win5002 Wrote: [ -> ]That would be a bad deal for the B12. Even if the B12 is willing to add Colorado and Utah we already have Utah covered with BYU so its only a content add and a move to further destabilize the PAC 12. Colorado fits in the area and is another market but it hasn't been competitive like WVU has nor does it have the potential UCF does.

So you're thinking Big XII westward expansion needs to include Arizona or ASU? Makes sense. I suggested Utah as a natural rivalry game with BYU. Maybe y'all end up with all four: Colorado, Utah, Arizona and Arizona State?

Yormark is interested westward because the B1G is/was. It's survival mode for every conference and the B12 has already been burned several times. He has the green light to be aggressive and if he can poach two more schools from the P12 then that would really put them on life support. He also knows B1G Commish Kevin Warren and the two have talked. I wonder if Yormark already knows the B1G will pursue Oregon & Washington. That is the kill shot to the P12 in terms of relevancy and eliminates a competitor to the B12. From all reports, Arizona is interested to make the jump but not solo if at all possible. Football drives the bus but imagine adding Arizona to the B12 hoops league. Wowzer! It would seem Yormark just needs to convince one other four corner schools to come with Zona and it's a done deal. That's my take anyway.

I expect the Arizona's to jump soon (I'd say a month or two) after that it'll be a frenzy for the other schools to get a life raft to the Big 12 including Oregon & Washington. Oregon and Washington are not going to risk being left behind while the four corner schools all ride off the the safety of the Big 12. So I think we end up adding Arizona & ASU shortly followed by Oregon & Washington.

I don't think it's very likely Oregon and Washington bail. I believe they will end up in the B1G at some point and they can negotiate higher shares to keep the P12/P10 intact until their phones ring from Kevin Warren's office.

The above is most probable. We will not get Oregon and Washington.

WA and OR likely get a B1G invite.
B12 takes two or four from UT AZ ASU CO.
Stanford CAL ORSU WASU bring in 8-10 of MW.
MW orphans join AAC or CUSA.

(09-07-2022 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]ESPN gets involved and decides to broker some moves between the ACC, Big XII, and Pac-12, like this:

WVU and UCF to the ACC
Colorado and Utah to the Big XII
Pac either sits at 8 or adds San Diego St and one other (Boise St?)

Q: How would that deal be viewed by Big XII fans? (Essentially trade WVU & UCF for Colorado & Utah)

I'm curious what you think of this what if. If ESPN kept the B12 on it's current payment trajectory with small increases each year for the new deal and put in a clause they could add any P5 school on a pro-rata basis, the networks signaled the 6 or 8 schools they want in B1G/SEC but assured the others they had a spot(probably PAC and ACC to make it simple) planned to use the ACC Network for the league which essentially would be national for in co ference footprint rates. The kicker the B1G and SEC try to incentive the move by giving the P3 league the same CFP share as they get.

For leftover P5 teams that's better than they will get the next 10 yrs and if it continued better than they would expect.

(09-15-2022 01:07 AM)Win5002 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-07-2022 10:35 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: [ -> ]ESPN gets involved and decides to broker some moves between the ACC, Big XII, and Pac-12, like this:

WVU and UCF to the ACC
Colorado and Utah to the Big XII
Pac either sits at 8 or adds San Diego St and one other (Boise St?)

Q: How would that deal be viewed by Big XII fans? (Essentially trade WVU & UCF for Colorado & Utah)

I'm curious what you think of this what if. If ESPN kept the B12 on it's current payment trajectory with small increases each year for the new deal and put in a clause they could add any P5 school on a pro-rata basis, the networks signaled the 6 or 8 schools they want in B1G/SEC but assured the others they had a spot(probably PAC and ACC to make it simple) planned to use the ACC Network for the league which essentially would be national for in co ference footprint rates. The kicker the B1G and SEC try to incentive the move by giving the P3 league the same CFP share as they get.

For leftover P5 teams that's better than they will get the next 10 yrs and if it continued better than they would expect.

this idea is void of reality because it ignores the reality of conference finances

1. the Big 12 basically extending their current deal at exactly the same price with just annual increases sucks for the Big 12

2. everyone that talks about "pro rata" increases does not understand conference finances at all.....the Big 12 will be getting about $26 to $27 million per member in just TV money for the final year of their current contract yet they will be paying out about $44 to $45 million per year which means there is $18 to $19 million in other conference money that is not from TV money

some of that is from the CFP and some of that is from The Sugar Bowl deal and other bowl deals that actually make money for the conference (not all do), Big 12 BB tournament money and other Big 12 sponsorships along with NCAA playoff money (mostly mens BB)

new members in the conference contribute zero dollars and zero cents of new money to any of that other than PERHAPS NCAA tournament money where the Big 12 already does extremely well so new members better be doing fantastic to actually CONTRIBUTE to that not just hold their own

so for every new member added you are making LESS money per current member because there is not extra CFP, Sugar Bowl, AlamoBowl By Mack Brown, sponsorship money ect for those new members

this is what all the butt hurt G5 teams could not understand back during the david boren needs attention expansion buffoonery a few years back.....once the Big 12 had the OK to have a CCG with 10 members that money was "free found money" and did not require two new members and new members were going to bring ZERO contributions to The Sugar Bowl paying $50 million 2 out of every 3 years and ZERO contributions to CFP money to the Big 12 in the form of about $50 million per year

so "pro rata" TV money means nothing to anyone that is not math challenged and that understands what comprises a full conference payout and worse yet the more teams you add the worse that "pro rata" nonsense is

and no ESPN and Fox or anyone else is not going to agree to cover 100% of the cost of adding new members

3. unless the members and commissioners of the PAC 12 and ACC and even the Big 12 are even more stupid than anyone imagines I see about ZERO chance they agree to give the SEC SEC SEC and Big 10 larger shares of the CFP.....of course the PAC 12 and ACC are run by idiots it seems and they do like to suck up to and on the Big 10 and SEC SEC SEC and they have been clearly chumped by them before so anything is possible, but the Big 12, ACC, and PAC 12 have the 6 votes to make things happen while the Big 10 and SEC SEC SEC have only 4 and I do not think the G5 and their 5 votes is going to vote with the Big 10 and SEC SEC SEC even if making it equal for all the P5 brings them nothing extra for themselves

4. people need to stop pretending that "in market" is some real thing......cable/sat MSOs are not contractually obligated to just start paying more because there happens to be a team in a conference that has a network in one of their subscriber areas

yes there are agreements for that in SOME markets, but even when aggy was added to the SEC SEC SEC all the cable and sat MSOs in Texas made it clear that just because aggy was in Texas and now in the SEC SEC SEC that did not mean the entire state of Texas was "in market" and would get a higher rate charged/paid

and since that time cable and sat MSOs have pushed back against that more and more and have even started dropping conference networks in some markets entirely including markets that are in a state with a member of a conference with a network they are dropping

the days of ESPN and others endlessly cramming channels on cable MSOs and trying to force rates on them is over and is not coming back to life

this idea is void of reality because it ignores the reality of conference finances

1. the Big 12 basically extending their current deal at exactly the same price with just annual increases sucks for the Big 12

Nope it doesn't. It would keep the Big 12 as the #3 conference in terms of revenue and payouts. Because if they keep the current deal and you throw in the current sponsorship money and regional TV money along with expanded CFP money the Big 12 will likely payout over 60 million per member.

2. everyone that talks about "pro rata" increases does not understand conference finances at all.....the Big 12 will be getting about $26 to $27 million per member in just TV money for the final year of their current contract yet they will be paying out about $44 to $45 million per year which means there is $18 to $19 million in other conference money that is not from TV money

some of that is from the CFP and some of that is from The Sugar Bowl deal and other bowl deals that actually make money for the conference (not all do), Big 12 BB tournament money and other Big 12 sponsorships along with NCAA playoff money (mostly mens BB)

new members in the conference contribute zero dollars and zero cents of new money to any of that other than PERHAPS NCAA tournament money where the Big 12 already does extremely well so new members better be doing fantastic to actually CONTRIBUTE to that not just hold their own

so for every new member added you are making LESS money per current member because there is not extra CFP, Sugar Bowl, AlamoBowl By Mack Brown, sponsorship money ect for those new members

this is what all the butt hurt G5 teams could not understand back during the david boren needs attention expansion buffoonery a few years back.....once the Big 12 had the OK to have a CCG with 10 members that money was "free found money" and did not require two new members and new members were going to bring ZERO contributions to The Sugar Bowl paying $50 million 2 out of every 3 years and ZERO contributions to CFP money to the Big 12 in the form of about $50 million per year

so "pro rata" TV money means nothing to anyone that is not math challenged and that understands what comprises a full conference payout and worse yet the more teams you add the worse that "pro rata" nonsense is

and no ESPN and Fox or anyone else is not going to agree to cover 100% of the cost of adding new members

You are 100% wrong on this and you're clearly challenged in a number of areas. The fact that the Big 12 would maintain its value shows that the new members have already contributed. No one cares about 2016 because this is a different situation and the new members already contribute despite your desperate attempts to say otherwise. Try using your brain instead of your emotions. The same people who gave the greenlight on USC and UCLA to the also greenlit Cincinnati, UCF, Houston and BYU to the Big 12. There were several articles, The Athletic being the main one, that stated that BYU alone contributes an additional 2 million per member. BYU and UCF just set ratings records or the highest records on years. Cincinnati has added millions of viewers the last few years and the credibilty of a CFP berth. Houston and Cincinnati drew more viewers for the AAC title game than every conference but the SEC and B1G. All of the new members have been to at least one New Year's Bowl game and/or won a national title in the recent era which is why the Big 12 is stable and I good shape for a good TV deal. So stop the "they add zero contributions" crap. And pro rata would be a massive addition to the new deal Clearly you're butthurt over something.

3. unless the members and commissioners of the PAC 12 and ACC and even the Big 12 are even more stupid than anyone imagines I see about ZERO chance they agree to give the SEC SEC SEC and Big 10 larger shares of the CFP.....of course the PAC 12 and ACC are run by idiots it seems and they do like to suck up to and on the Big 10 and SEC SEC SEC and they have been clearly chumped by them before so anything is possible, but the Big 12, ACC, and PAC 12 have the 6 votes to make things happen while the Big 10 and SEC SEC SEC have only 4 and I do not think the G5 and their 5 votes is going to vote with the Big 10 and SEC SEC SEC even if making it equal for all the P5 brings them nothing extra for themselves

This I agree on. The P5 are going to get an equal share of the P5 money and I think that the B1G and SEC are fine with that.

4. people need to stop pretending that "in market" is some real thing......cable/sat MSOs are not contractually obligated to just start paying more because there happens to be a team in a conference that has a network in one of their subscriber areas

yes there are agreements for that in SOME markets, but even when aggy was added to the SEC SEC SEC all the cable and sat MSOs in Texas made it clear that just because aggy was in Texas and now in the SEC SEC SEC that did not mean the entire state of Texas was "in market" and would get a higher rate charged/paid

and since that time cable and sat MSOs have pushed back against that more and more and have even started dropping conference networks in some markets entirely including markets that are in a state with a member of a conference with a network they are dropping

the days of ESPN and others endlessly cramming channels on cable MSOs and trying to force rates on them is over and is not coming back to life

But having schools in a market like Ohio or Florida does help get your conference network into that territory and no, the days of ESPN (and Fox) doing that are NOT over. That was part of the reason Oklahoma was added. That was also why the LA schools were so invaluable to the B1G, they added a massive market to the B1G Network.