The gist of the article is to drag Erdogan and the Turkish people for celebrating the conquest of Constantinople and the lionizing of the sultan who did it - Muhammed (Mehmet) II. I've not studied the Ottoman empire in great detail, but one of the takeaways I've always had was that it tended towards a more secular approach to government than say the Arab countries on the peninsula. If anything, it seems like Erdogan's aim is to "gin up his base" in order to maintain power.
I think Erdogan is a snake. But honestly the history of virtually every country in existence today has blood on their hands. Humans conquered, raped and pillaged for a very very long time.
https://pjmedia.com/columns/raymond-ibra...s-n1612008
Quote:On May 29, 2022, in Istanbul and other cities in Turkey, elaborate celebrations were held to commemorate the 569th anniversary of the Islamic conquest of Constantinople in 1453. During these neo-Ottoman celebrations, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan declared that “As our ancestors buried Byzantium, let us hope that today, by building our vision for 2053, we also manage to put in the time warp of history the current Byzantines who are plotting against us.”
My opinion? When I rule the world I'm changing the name of Istanbul back to Constantinople. Not that I'm a bit fan of Constantine or Christianity in general, I just like the name more and it will piss people off.
(07-12-2022 08:18 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]My opinion? When I rule the world I'm changing the name of Istanbul back to Constantinople. Not that I'm a bit fan of Constantine or Christianity in general, I just like the name more and it will piss people off.
Why not Byzantium?
I don't have an issue with it. We celebrate kicking the British out of USA.
(07-12-2022 08:01 AM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ]The gist of the article is to drag Erdogan and the Turkish people for celebrating the conquest of Constantinople and the lionizing of the sultan who did it - Muhammed (Mehmet) II. I've not studied the Ottoman empire in great detail, but one of the takeaways I've always had was that it tended towards a more secular approach to government than say the Arab countries on the peninsula. If anything, it seems like Erdogan's aim is to "gin up his base" in order to maintain power.
I think so too, from what I know they were a model of tolerance compared to much of the Islamic world today. Non-muslims had to pay a higher tax rate, but otherwise were not persecuted or ostracized AFAIK.
(07-12-2022 10:00 AM)UofMTigerTim Wrote: [ -> ]I don't have an issue with it. We celebrate kicking the British out of USA.
I agree, they took it so if they want to celebrate that it's their right. And US-UK is a great analogy, the Revolutionary War doesn't cause diplomatic tensions today so I see no reason that the Fall of Constantinople should be allowed to. Things are always dicier when religious differences are involved, but our time and Turkey's would be better spent focusing on keeping Turkey in-line with the rest of NATO, building its ties to Europe, and boosting it as a semi-democratic at least example to the rest of the Islamic world.
makes me feel better about bragging about beating UTK in '96
its still a W
(07-12-2022 09:57 AM)Niner National Wrote: [ -> ] (07-12-2022 08:18 AM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]My opinion? When I rule the world I'm changing the name of Istanbul back to Constantinople. Not that I'm a bit fan of Constantine or Christianity in general, I just like the name more and it will piss people off.
Why not Byzantium?
In Nebuchadnezzar's dream 2600 years ago, Rome had 2 legs of iron.
And history shows us that is just what happened, Rome had its western and eastern Empire (Byzantium).
Pagan Rome (western empire) morphed into a marriage of Christianity and paganism, which led to the Holy Roman Empire and the modern Roman Catholic Church headed up by the Vatican with the pope as King.
No issue with this at all, although I'm pretty sure the people of Turkiye don't give a crap about my opinion on the matter, at all.
History is written by the winners. Ottomans won, Byzantines didn't.
(07-12-2022 11:29 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote: [ -> ]History is written by the winners. Ottomans won, Byzantines didn't.
Yeah and unlike the Arabs when they conquered Egypt, the Ottomans burned priceless, irreplaceable treasures and books.
But if they want to celebrate the victory of the Turks over the Roman Empire after a thousand years of war, let them. The Turkic Huns weakened the western empire in the 400s for an eventual destruction by the Germans and the Ottomans finished off the Eastern Empire.
(07-12-2022 10:00 AM)UofMTigerTim Wrote: [ -> ]I don't have an issue with it. We celebrate kicking the British out of USA.
Yeah but Constatine/Rome built it before Islam. They were there first, not that it matters that much. Those same people made it to the gate of Vienna 2 times. Now they live there and Western Union money back to Turkey.
Um, not on my list of things to worry...or care about, i.e., who cares.
you asked for opinions, there is mine.
Funny, I've been thinking about this topic a bit lately. How many pieces of dirt on this earth have had somebody living there who was subsequently overrun by others arriving later? 99+%?
(07-12-2022 06:42 PM)TripleA Wrote: [ -> ]Funny, I've been thinking about this topic a bit lately. How many pieces of dirt on this earth have had somebody living there who was subsequently overrun by others arriving later? 99+%?
I doubt its that low.
Better yet, why don’t the Turkish Leader celebrate WW1 where the Ottoman Empire got their teeth kicked in and the Empire had to be parceled out.
Agree with most on here in that the Turks can celebrate what they want. The author of the piece for whatever reason is pretty concerned over it - guessing it's a combination of showing pro Muslim views coupled with a leader of a NATO country celebrating the rape and pillage of a former European entity. IDK, just have a hard time caring about it, and let's be clear every former empire in the past has done heinous things in victory.
(07-12-2022 07:08 PM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ]Agree with most on here in that the Turks can celebrate what they want. The author of the piece for whatever reason is pretty concerned over it - guessing it's a combination of showing pro Muslim views coupled with a leader of a NATO country celebrating the rape and pillage of a former European entity. IDK, just have a hard time caring about it, and let's be clear every former empire in the past has done heinous things in victory.
I used to think that was the case but I have learned now that America is the only Empire that ever did anything evil.
We brought racism, slavery, sexism, homophobia and a host of other things into a world that was a peaceful utopia and accepting of all before we came along.
(07-12-2022 08:01 AM)miko33 Wrote: [ -> ]The gist of the article is to drag Erdogan and the Turkish people for celebrating the conquest of Constantinople and the lionizing of the sultan who did it - Muhammed (Mehmet) II. I've not studied the Ottoman empire in great detail, but one of the takeaways I've always had was that it tended towards a more secular approach to government than say the Arab countries on the peninsula. If anything, it seems like Erdogan's aim is to "gin up his base" in order to maintain power.
I think Erdogan is a snake. But honestly the history of virtually every country in existence today has blood on their hands. Humans conquered, raped and pillaged for a very very long time.
https://pjmedia.com/columns/raymond-ibra...s-n1612008
Quote:On May 29, 2022, in Istanbul and other cities in Turkey, elaborate celebrations were held to commemorate the 569th anniversary of the Islamic conquest of Constantinople in 1453. During these neo-Ottoman celebrations, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan declared that “As our ancestors buried Byzantium, let us hope that today, by building our vision for 2053, we also manage to put in the time warp of history the current Byzantines who are plotting against us.”
It's human nature.
(07-12-2022 06:48 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-12-2022 06:42 PM)TripleA Wrote: [ -> ]Funny, I've been thinking about this topic a bit lately. How many pieces of dirt on this earth have had somebody living there who was subsequently overrun by others arriving later? 99+%?
I doubt its that low.
I doubt its that low for places that haven't been overrun at least 2 or 3 times.
There was a tribe of Indians in southern Ontario called the Neutrals as they were not at war with the Huron on one side or the Iroquois on the other. Eventually, the Iroquois wiped them out and took over their land.