CSNbbs

Thought this was interesting.

Granted, he has to come up with material for his media obligations, but he's certainly connected to several interesting parties in all this.

Notre Dame has been absolutely quiet this weekend.

The Sec has also been deathly quiet too.

Are they related? Don’t know.

(07-07-2022 01:55 AM)murrdcu Wrote: [ -> ]Notre Dame has been absolutely quiet this weekend.

The Sec has also been deathly quiet too.

Are they related? Don’t know.

We have. But I've also been hearing that whatever happens next will likely come sooner than many might expect.

The common denominator in names have been North Carolina and Clemson, the two who visited B'ham a year ago, unofficially. Miami and FSU depend upon who you listen to and Virginia's been tossed out.

Can you imagine a move to 24 with these: Clemson, Florida State, Kansas, Miami, North Carolina, N.C. State, Notre Dame, Virginia or Virginia Tech?

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Miami, South Carolina

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Notre Dame, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

I don't know about N.D.. I don't dislike them but IMO it needs to be on the same terms as everyone else. I can say this though, if Notre Dame heads our way with Clemson, FSU, and UNC the howling and griping you heard from the alliance last July will sound like Diana Ross and the Supremes harmonies compared to what the convulsions would be this time around! Should N.D. choose the SEC the odds of one day landing Penn State and Ohio State shoot up. Then we are talking one self contained upper tier.

The B1G could then look like this:

California Los Angeles, Colorado, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington

Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue, Syracuse

Duke, Maryland, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Virginia


And the Composite

Central Florida, Houston, Georgia Tech, Louisville, South Florida, Wake Forest

Boston College, Cincinnati, Connecticut, Louisville, Temple, West Virginia

Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Christian, Texas Tech

Arizona, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Oregon State, Utah, Washington State

The inclusion of Notre Dame would open up certain avenues to make whatever happens with the SEC more profitable. You have greater margin for error if you make that haul.

At the same time, if it's true that this ACC/PAC partnership provides a sustainable base for other schools not included then you don't necessarily have to find a way to move a larger number out of the ACC.

Are UNC and Duke really connected? What about Virginia?

Clemson and Florida State seem a foregone conclusion and I still wonder about Georgia Tech and Louisville...saw some media folks out of KY that seem to think Kentucky has warmed up to the idea of UL in the league.

There's too many bases to cover if we stick to 24...especially if we make room for Kansas. KU makes a lot of sense if the Big 12 ends up being included in the ACC/PAC alignment.

I'm tempted to say we could go past 24, but that's potentially unwieldy as far as the governance.

And then there's this...which I have a hard time arguing with.

How tied to one another is Notre Dame and Stanford. I know that ND has always considered them a rival of sorts. Would ND only join the Big 10 or the SEC if Stanford does?

(07-07-2022 08:48 AM)Nevermoor Wrote: [ -> ]How tied to one another is Notre Dame and Stanford. I know that ND has always considered them a rival of sorts. Would ND only join the Big 10 or the SEC if Stanford does?

ND has played Pitt more than Stanford and Pitt might be more palatable to the SEC.

(07-07-2022 06:14 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]And then there's this...which I have a hard time arguing with.

Interesting subject matter you present, ATU.

We’ve seen how amiable the “alliance” lasted (lol). It proved nothing more than a PR gimmick in the wake of UT and OU announcing their departure to the SEC.

The ESPN initiative to have the ACC & PAC under a co-op media arrangement sounds intriguing on the surface; however, implementing and sustaining it will be the challenge. Herding cats will be easier. Yet, it is financially based. Therefore, the amount of money the network disburses to the two conferences shall determine the thickness of the glue for the most part.

Back to the SEC. I don’t know how much brilliance the nerdy human calculators at the SEC and ESPN will further show. However, finding available, prospective new members that can assuredly add a minimum of 30-35 million or so each to the coffers, and sustain and grow such, are quite limited. Clemson and FSU can do it. Notre Dame could as well if that angle ever gets serious. North Carolina and Miami probably would be in the ballpark. Maybe even NCSU and/or UVA if they are the lone ones from their respective states.

We have to note that figures of a school’s value in the ACC, will shoot upwards by several thousand just by having that new SEC labeling. It is also affected by who comes along with them.

(07-07-2022 04:43 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-07-2022 06:14 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]And then there's this...which I have a hard time arguing with.

Interesting subject matter you present, ATU.

We’ve seen how amiable the “alliance” lasted (lol). It proved nothing more than a PR gimmick in the wake of UT and OU announcing their departure to the SEC.

The ESPN initiative to have the ACC & PAC under a co-op media arrangement sounds intriguing on the surface; however, implementing and sustaining it will be the challenge. Herding cats will be easier. Yet, it is financially based. Therefore, the amount of money the network disburses to the two conferences shall determine the thickness of the glue for the most part.

Back to the SEC. I don’t know how much brilliance the nerdy human calculators at the SEC and ESPN will further show. However, finding available, prospective new members that can assuredly add a minimum of 30-35 million or so each to the coffers, and sustain and grow such, are quite limited. Clemson and FSU can do it. Notre Dame could as well if that angle ever gets serious. North Carolina and Miami probably would be in the ballpark. Maybe even NCSU and/or UVA if they are the lone ones from their respective states.

We have to note that figures of a school’s value in the ACC, will shoot upwards by several thousand just by having that new SEC labeling. It is also affected by who comes along with them.

Not this time! Stop thinking about valuations. They are mostly off the table this time. The Big 24 is being built for large market reach. The SEC is being Built for Brand and Content value.

FOX and ESPN want a 12-16 member playoff confined to B1G and SEC members and it would worth around 2 billion to them. They want a new independent hoops tourney that makes over 1 billion. They want all members paid essentially 100 million - 120 million. This with NIL will help fix some of the lack of competitiveness we now experience even in the upper echelon of schools. Restricting the upper tier to 48 schools also means more top recruits to fewer schools and that helps with competition as well.

So if ESPN wants UNC and NC State so Duke and Virgina go to FOX it works. If the SEC picks up Miami and FSU it works.

They want a North vs South rivalry so expect geographically sensitive divisions.

It is what it is, the start of a college super bowl between 2 leagues.

(07-07-2022 05:17 PM)JRsec Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-07-2022 04:43 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-07-2022 06:14 AM)AllTideUp Wrote: [ -> ]And then there's this...which I have a hard time arguing with.

Interesting subject matter you present, ATU.

We’ve seen how amiable the “alliance” lasted (lol). It proved nothing more than a PR gimmick in the wake of UT and OU announcing their departure to the SEC.

The ESPN initiative to have the ACC & PAC under a co-op media arrangement sounds intriguing on the surface; however, implementing and sustaining it will be the challenge. Herding cats will be easier. Yet, it is financially based. Therefore, the amount of money the network disburses to the two conferences shall determine the thickness of the glue for the most part.

Back to the SEC. I don’t know how much brilliance the nerdy human calculators at the SEC and ESPN will further show. However, finding available, prospective new members that can assuredly add a minimum of 30-35 million or so each to the coffers, and sustain and grow such, are quite limited. Clemson and FSU can do it. Notre Dame could as well if that angle ever gets serious. North Carolina and Miami probably would be in the ballpark. Maybe even NCSU and/or UVA if they are the lone ones from their respective states.

We have to note that figures of a school’s value in the ACC, will shoot upwards by several thousand just by having that new SEC labeling. It is also affected by who comes along with them.

Not this time! Stop thinking about valuations. They are mostly off the table this time. The Big 24 is being built for large market reach. The SEC is being Built for Brand and Content value.

FOX and ESPN want a 12-16 member playoff confined to B1G and SEC members and it would worth around 2 billion to them. They want a new independent hoops tourney that makes over 1 billion. They want all members paid essentially 100 million - 120 million. This with NIL will help fix some of the lack of competitiveness we now experience even in the upper echelon of schools. Restricting the upper tier to 48 schools also means more top recruits to fewer schools and that helps with competition as well.

So if ESPN wants UNC and NC State so Duke and Virgina go to FOX it works. If the SEC picks up Miami and FSU it works.

They want a North vs South rivalry so expect geographically sensitive divisions.

It is what it is, the start of a college super bowl between 2 leagues.

I keep coming up with 5 ACC schools to really be interested in: Clemson, FSU, Miami, UNC and VT. If UNC, Duke and UVA all go to the Big 10, I like NC State's metrics. I've posted on here before about 21 being a decent number with three 7 team divisions, but it seems like its either 20 or 24, and so that leaves 3 spots. But I don't know if schools like Georgia Tech are worth it (no offense meant!), or if the Big might grab Georgia Tech. If as you say "throw valuations off the table" I guess they are in.

But I don't think valuations are completely off the table or Washington/Oregon would already be gone. Yes the Big needs room for ND, but there would be space for them anyway.

And the PAC hasn't already invited SDSU.

I don't think valuations are completely off the table (obviously, in some cases; i.e, the Big 10 isn't inviting SJSU, for example). They may have been pushed to the side, but they still matter to some degree.

It's intriguing especially for the Big 10, because the SEC does have probably a dozen or so schools they could legitimately go after if needed (especially if you throw in schools like Pitt and WVU, and more if you add Ok St and Texas Tech, Kansas, etc.). But the Big 10 has a more limited number of options. Would Pitt/Syracuse have value to them? If so, they don't have room for UNC and friends, they would need UNC on their own, etc.

Objectionably speaking, I find Duke a more valuable asset than Pitt. I believe Pitt still has a quality brand, and plays ok football and has a solid history and tradition. I just don't think a week 6 game between Pitt and Kentucky or a week 7 game against Tennessee would draw many tv sets once the novelty wears off and this is just games on our schedule. In the Pittsburgh metro once you get into southern and eastern Washington Co., Fayette Co. and Greene Co. you're into Appalachian country. So there's some southern culture in the Pittsburgh area. But just not enough to tie Pittsburgh with any other those schools. The Johnny Majors Classic is a nice series that I wouldn't mind being extended as a nonconference game. I really see Pitt struggling to find it's niche in the SEC much the same way Missouri is.

(07-10-2022 06:23 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote: [ -> ]Objectionably speaking, I find Duke a more valuable asset than Pitt. I believe Pitt still has a quality brand, and plays ok football and has a solid history and tradition. I just don't think a week 6 game between Pitt and Kentucky or a week 7 game against Tennessee would draw many tv sets once the novelty wears off and this is just games on our schedule. In the Pittsburgh metro once you get into southern and eastern Washington Co., Fayette Co. and Greene Co. you're into Appalachian country. So there's some southern culture in the Pittsburgh area. But just not enough to tie Pittsburgh with any other those schools. The Johnny Majors Classic is a nice series that I wouldn't mind being extended as a nonconference game. I really see Pitt struggling to find it's niche in the SEC much the same way Missouri is.

Several years back, when Mr. SEC was still operating his blog, he posited that the SEC might actually go for Pittsburgh in a scenario where they were raiding the ACC.

He always said that was his personal theory, no info from sources on that. His reasoning was that it was a decent market and there were only so many new markets that could be tapped. Of course, that was a time when adding cable subscribers was the big thing. That and if the SEC was going to consider West Virginia then schools would have to fly into Pittsburgh anyway...Pitt being the better overall option.

Missouri and Texas A&M had just entered the league and rumors flew around that maybe the SEC would just add 6 from the ACC and move to 20.

So I kind of think about it like you do. I don't think it's a bad approach to add Pittsburgh to the SEC, but I'm just not sure it would work.

I suppose it depends. The thing about the SEC is the fan interaction. These schools, except for Vanderbilt, represent communities and states. People like to beat their chest and brag about winning or just the all-around greatness of where they're from. It creates a sense of pride when you win and it annoys the heck out of your competitors. That's present in every league, it's just that the SEC takes it up a notch.

The thing with Missouri is I'm not sure they care that much...by and large. It's not that Mizzou has performed all that poorly since joining up. They've won the East twice and I think are 7th in the conference since that time in win/loss record. That's not excellent mind you, but it's better than 7 other squads too.

Strangely enough, I actually think Kansas would fit a little better than Missouri despite everyone talking about the geography being the issue. The KU fan base seems a little more passionate on its face. Although I theorize that having Kansas in the league would actually help Missouri fit a little better...a bitter rival might jumpstart their passion a little bit.

With Pitt, it might be better if they were in a league with West Virginia and other schools they have traditionally played. That gives their fans the greatest number of opportunities to care.

You're right. Pitt belongs in a division full of rivals that can get both local and national appeal, and a fantasy division that can become reality would look like this: Pitt, Penn State, Miami, Notre Dame, Maryland and Rutgers. Instantly there's 3 games worthy of the CBS 330 timeslot or prime time FOX, and then there's a real potential of Maryland being a Backyard Brawl Pt 2. HSs in PA play schools in Maryland as well as the Big 33 is played between PA and Maryland. Even if Pitt finished in that division 3rd or 4th we would bring more value to the B1G than we would in a northern division in the SEC. Culture and tradition is everything. There's definitely a reason why Pittsburgh is placed in more Midwestern type divisions in MLB and NFL.

With the SEC, a potential Pitt division would be: Pitt, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Virginia, Virginia Tech. I think most years Pitt is somewhere between 1st and 3rd. It would have its challenges, but critically overwhelming. It makes some sense from a Appalachian cultural point of view, but there's a huge lack of history. We played Kentucky in a bowl game and some history with Tennessee. But from a rivalry perspective, it's about the same as the ACC.

Thing about Missouri is that I wasn't being critical of them on the field. As a neutral fan, I'm not intrigued with their games against SEC foes. I think them joining a division with Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and TAMU will definitely boost that intrigued.