CSNbbs

"DENTON, Texas – North Texas Athletics will construct a new Unity Plaza honoring trailblazers Abner Haynes and Dr. Leon King, the first Black players to integrate major college football at a four-year university in Texas, the department announced Thursday."

https://meangreensports.com/news/2022/6/...plaza.aspx

I thought this news might break at our Spring Game, but was glad our athletic department kept in under wraps until now. There is more news to this story coming out over the next two months. I'll post it when it is appropriate.

I wish entities didn't feel so morally obliged to build such monuments, or to recognize any and every minority that came 'first' in something, or who broke whatever 'racial barrier.' The 'woke' movement is in overkill mode. I like UNT, and I'm glad we'll continue on as rivals in the same conference. That statement isn't just directed at you guys. It's everyone. No one cares about such things like this that happened over 50 years ago, but the minority group it recognizes, and that's only because they're determined to live in the past. There's my two cents. Rake me over the coals for it, or take rep points. I really don't care.

(06-27-2022 12:49 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]I wish entities didn't feel so morally obliged to build such monuments, or to recognize any and every minority that came 'first' in something, or who broke whatever 'racial barrier.' The 'woke' movement is in overkill mode. I like UNT, and I'm glad we'll continue on as rivals in the same conference. That statement isn't just directed at you guys. It's everyone. No one cares about such things like this that happened over 50 years ago, but the minority group it recognizes, and that's only because they're determined to live in the past. There's my two cents. Rake me over the coals for it, or take rep points. I really don't care.

Agree with you on the 'woke' movement being in overkill mode, starting with their wanton destruction of other monuments of the past, as well as a host of other things we see going on. I do think that monuments such as these are worth constructing though. I can't speak from experience about what so many went through in the 50's and before, but it's important that we recognize the efforts of those who fought to break barriers, or actually succeeded in doing so.

They helped our society move forward. Not all change will always be good, as we may still take a step or two backwards again every now and then. But it's still better to take a step or two back from a more forward position than it is to take a step back after not even having moved forward to begin with.

I think it's more important that we honor schools (looking at you too, UTEP), coaches, and players who helped move societal social change forward than it is to honor who may have scored the most touchdowns in a season, or hit the most home runs. Both require hard work, but one also requires a measure of courage that others at the time were not willing to take on.

(06-27-2022 12:49 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]No one cares about such things like this that happened over 50 years ago, but the minority group it recognizes, and that's only because they're determined to live in the past.

And right there we see why it's important to Never Forget. Good for UNT, to honor these pioneers and not try to pretend that the injustice they fought never existed.

The past is never dead. It's not even past. It wasn't that long ago that Americans were bought and sold like cattle. That their sons and granddaughters were then denied full citizenship, including the right to play college football.

Shove your head in the sand and pretend that American history is a story of roses and lollipops. That's your right.

But a university has a duty to explain and preserve the past - a past that's not even past - not to paint over it with sunshine and whitewash. I am proud to share a new conference with North Texas.

(06-27-2022 12:49 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]I wish entities didn't feel so morally obliged to build such monuments, or to recognize any and every minority that came 'first' in something, or who broke whatever 'racial barrier.' The 'woke' movement is in overkill mode. I like UNT, and I'm glad we'll continue on as rivals in the same conference. That statement isn't just directed at you guys. It's everyone. No one cares about such things like this that happened over 50 years ago, but the minority group it recognizes, and that's only because they're determined to live in the past. There's my two cents. Rake me over the coals for it, or take rep points. I really don't care.

I'm not a fan of the "woke" movement, and I don't view this plaza as a woke monument. But the struggle of these men to play college football at the highest possible level should to be immortalized. There are people that have been immortalized for doing much less. Haynes and King endured terrible discrimination in the late 1950's because they chose to play major college football at North Texas. Believe me, I've heard the stories. Even so, they both persevered and were able to become positive figures beyond their days at North Texas. Haynes became the first great running back for what would become the Kansas City Chiefs (Haynes is in the Chiefs Hall of Fame & his number is retired), and King went on the earn his PhD in education. I see this as a celebration of success in the face of true discrimination. And I do believe it is important to celebrate what they did.

(06-27-2022 03:23 PM)Volkmar Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2022 12:49 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]I wish entities didn't feel so morally obliged to build such monuments, or to recognize any and every minority that came 'first' in something, or who broke whatever 'racial barrier.' The 'woke' movement is in overkill mode. I like UNT, and I'm glad we'll continue on as rivals in the same conference. That statement isn't just directed at you guys. It's everyone. No one cares about such things like this that happened over 50 years ago, but the minority group it recognizes, and that's only because they're determined to live in the past. There's my two cents. Rake me over the coals for it, or take rep points. I really don't care.

Agree with you on the 'woke' movement being in overkill mode, starting with their wanton destruction of other monuments of the past, as well as a host of other things we see going on. I do think that monuments such as these are worth constructing though. I can't speak from experience about what so many went through in the 50's and before, but it's important that we recognize the efforts of those who fought to break barriers, or actually succeeded in doing so.

They helped our society move forward. Not all change will always be good, as we may still take a step or two backwards again every now and then. But it's still better to take a step or two back from a more forward position than it is to take a step back after not even having moved forward to begin with.

I think it's more important that we honor schools (looking at you too, UTEP), coaches, and players who helped move societal social change forward than it is to honor who may have scored the most touchdowns in a season, or hit the most home runs. Both require hard work, but one also requires a measure of courage that others at the time were not willing to take on.

Excellent post.

(06-27-2022 04:08 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2022 12:49 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]I wish entities didn't feel so morally obliged to build such monuments, or to recognize any and every minority that came 'first' in something, or who broke whatever 'racial barrier.' The 'woke' movement is in overkill mode. I like UNT, and I'm glad we'll continue on as rivals in the same conference. That statement isn't just directed at you guys. It's everyone. No one cares about such things like this that happened over 50 years ago, but the minority group it recognizes, and that's only because they're determined to live in the past. There's my two cents. Rake me over the coals for it, or take rep points. I really don't care.

I'm not a fan of the "woke" movement, and I don't view this plaza as a woke monument. But the struggle of these men to play college football at the highest possible level should to be immortalized. There are people that have been immortalized for doing much less. Haynes and King endured terrible discrimination in the late 1950's because they chose to play major college football at North Texas. Believe me, I've heard the stories. Even so, they both persevered and were able to become positive figures beyond their days at North Texas. Haynes became the first great running back for what would become the Kansas City Chiefs (Haynes is in the Chiefs Hall of Fame & his number is retired), and King went on the earn his PhD in education. I see this as a celebration of success in the face of true discrimination. And I do believe it is important to celebrate what they did.

Agreed. Pioneers such as these should be honored.

(06-27-2022 12:49 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]I wish entities didn't feel so morally obliged to build such monuments, or to recognize any and every minority that came 'first' in something, or who broke whatever 'racial barrier.' The 'woke' movement is in overkill mode. I like UNT, and I'm glad we'll continue on as rivals in the same conference. That statement isn't just directed at you guys. It's everyone. No one cares about such things like this that happened over 50 years ago, but the minority group it recognizes, and that's only because they're determined to live in the past. There's my two cents. Rake me over the coals for it, or take rep points. I really don't care.

(06-27-2022 03:23 PM)Volkmar Wrote: [ -> ]Agree with you on the 'woke' movement being in overkill mode, starting with their wanton destruction of other monuments of the past, as well as a host of other things we see going on.

The WaNtOn dEsTrUcTiOn of monuments of traitors against the United States, many of which were erected during a period decades after reconstruction as a blatant move to intimidate POC? Those monuments?

These monuments and recognitions of 'minorities' who crossed racial barriers are ridiculous. It legitimatizes their desire to continuously focus on the past, as if they are the only group of people who have ever suffered in this country. LOL! Ever heard of the Irish, and the Jews? It enables them. It keeps them where they are. It reinforces their determination to keep themselves separated from US society, a society that they blame for every wrongdoing or failure, which is a load of crap. And we build these monuments and acknowledge their accomplishments while they tear ours' down? I don't think so. But please, continue in your 'wokeness.' I'll sit this one out.

(06-27-2022 05:19 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]And we build these monuments and acknowledge their accomplishments while they tear ours' down?

Robert E. Lee broke his oath. He committed treason. He made war upon the United States.

I prefer to honor American heroes:

(06-27-2022 12:49 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]I wish entities didn't feel so morally obliged to build such monuments, or to recognize any and every minority that came 'first' in something, or who broke whatever 'racial barrier.' The 'woke' movement is in overkill mode. I like UNT, and I'm glad we'll continue on as rivals in the same conference. That statement isn't just directed at you guys. It's everyone. No one cares about such things like this that happened over 50 years ago, but the minority group it recognizes, and that's only because they're determined to live in the past. There's my two cents. Rake me over the coals for it, or take rep points. I really don't care.

Whether you care or not, is immaterial: this monument celebrates a great event that helped open up Texas and the South to integrated sports.

This is a great story in particular how the white players rallied around their new teammates. Also how badly these players were treated at many opponents home games. They demonstrated a lot of courage and were true pioneers.

I and many others are really proud of NT which integrated about 10 years before the much more celebrated signing of Jerry Levias at SMU.

I guess you are against any type of record keeping because obviously the past is unimportant. I have no idea how you tie this in with the current Woke movement.

(06-27-2022 05:19 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]These monuments and recognitions of 'minorities' who crossed racial barriers are ridiculous. It legitimatizes their desire to continuously focus on the past, as if they are the only group of people who have ever suffered in this country. LOL! Ever heard of the Irish, and the Jews? It enables them. It keeps them where they are. It reinforces their determination to keep themselves separated from US society, a society that they blame for every wrongdoing or failure, which is a load of crap. And we build these monuments and acknowledge their accomplishments while they tear ours' down? I don't think so. But please, continue in your 'wokeness.' I'll sit this one out.

clt is going to sit this one out….

(06-27-2022 05:19 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]And we build these monuments and acknowledge their accomplishments while they tear ours' down? I don't think so. But please, continue in your 'wokeness.'

Just out of curiosity, who are the "their" and "ours"? In this scenario. I'm a white guy whose family goes back many generations and in the South specifically.

None of the monuments being torn down represent anything, anyone, or any ideal I identify with and I celebrate their destruction or at absolute minimum relocation to museums, the only place they belong to stay erected. What "accomplishments" of yours do those monuments represent?

(06-27-2022 05:41 PM)Grandgreen Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2022 12:49 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]I wish entities didn't feel so morally obliged to build such monuments, or to recognize any and every minority that came 'first' in something, or who broke whatever 'racial barrier.' The 'woke' movement is in overkill mode. I like UNT, and I'm glad we'll continue on as rivals in the same conference. That statement isn't just directed at you guys. It's everyone. No one cares about such things like this that happened over 50 years ago, but the minority group it recognizes, and that's only because they're determined to live in the past. There's my two cents. Rake me over the coals for it, or take rep points. I really don't care.

Whether you care or not, is immaterial: this monument celebrates a great event that helped open up Texas and the South to integrated sports.

This is a great story in particular how the white players rallied around their new teammates. Also how badly these players were treated at many opponents home games. They demonstrated a lot of courage and were true pioneers.

I and many others are really proud of NT which integrated about 10 years before the much more celebrated signing of Jerry Levias at SMU.

I guess you are against any type of record keeping because obviously the past is unimportant. I have no idea how you tie this in with the current Woke movement.

Of course the past is important. History is important. The problem I have is that 'wokeness' is being propagated by force. It's being demanded. None of this would be happening under its own momentum. 'Wokeness' is one-sided, and it's also short-sighted.

While we promote black history at a pace never seen before, there's also a process of 'cancelation' happening, whereby anything deemed racist and discriminatory by one small group, is being destroyed. I had much more tolerance of black historical figures before the 'wokies' started tearing down monuments and statues all over this country. They have no respect.

(06-27-2022 06:23 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2022 05:19 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]And we build these monuments and acknowledge their accomplishments while they tear ours' down? I don't think so. But please, continue in your 'wokeness.'

Just out of curiosity, who are the "their" and "ours"? In this scenario. I'm a white guy whose family goes back many generations and in the South specifically.

None of the monuments being torn down represent anything, anyone, or any ideal I identify with and I celebrate their destruction or at absolute minimum relocation to museums, the only place they belong to stay erected. What "accomplishments" of yours do those monuments represent?

Are you serious? If it weren't for our founding fathers, you wouldn't be living in the greatest country on the face of the Earth. If you can't acknowledge anything positive they did, then you're part of the problem. What's your clown detector telling you now?

(06-27-2022 06:43 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2022 06:23 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2022 05:19 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]And we build these monuments and acknowledge their accomplishments while they tear ours' down? I don't think so. But please, continue in your 'wokeness.'

Just out of curiosity, who are the "their" and "ours"? In this scenario. I'm a white guy whose family goes back many generations and in the South specifically.

None of the monuments being torn down represent anything, anyone, or any ideal I identify with and I celebrate their destruction or at absolute minimum relocation to museums, the only place they belong to stay erected. What "accomplishments" of yours do those monuments represent?

Are you serious? If it weren't for our founding fathers, you wouldn't be living in the greatest country on the face of the Earth. If you can't acknowledge anything positive they did, then you're part of the problem. What's your clown detector telling you now?

This isn't even kind of close to the greatest country on earth. I'm not sure it's top ten.

Was Robert E. Lee a founding father? Was Charles Linn? Raphael Semmes? Sam Davis? John B. Castleman? Richard W. Dowling? Jefferson Davis? Zebulon Baird Vance?

How many founding fathers were depicted in the Birmingham Confederate Soldiers and Sailors Monument? Or the Bentonville Confederate Monument? The University of Alabama Confederate Memorial? The Denton Confederate Soldier Monument? Spirit of the Confederacy in Houston? Hey Reb! In Las Vegas?

My clown detector? You broke it.

Those Confederates fought for much, much more than slavery. You know that. It doesn't fit your narrative. Save that for someone who doesn't know any better. You're definitely 'woke.'

(06-27-2022 07:56 PM)Ourland Wrote: [ -> ]Those Confederates fought for much, much more than slavery. You know that. It doesn't fit your narrative. Save that for someone who doesn't know any better. You're definitely 'woke.'

Traitors against the United States who fought for states' rights... to own slaves.

And the overwhelming majority of the monuments were erected in the early to mid 20th century with the specific intention of intimidating black Americans and reminding them of where they came from. If you are proud of those monuments, you are part of the problem. A large factor in why we aren't the greatest country on earth. I mean what are we number one in apart from military spending, obese children, medical debt, education debt, guns per capita and gun violence(shocking coincidence, no?) citizens killed by law enforcement officers, and incarceration rates?

We're definitely number one in people who somehow believe that being the only developed country without things like guaranteed healthcare and guaranteed parental leave is somehow a good thing.

At any rate, I'dd rather be "woke" than racist.

By the bye, is this what you "sitting this one out" looks like?