CSNbbs

HBCU Gameday creator:

These guys have been spot on regarding HBCU realignment.


The final piece of CAA expansion may be falling into place

(04-17-2022 06:42 AM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]These guys have been spot on regarding HBCU realignment.


The final piece of CAA expansion may be falling into place

I don't think it's the final piece. I think we go to 16.

Howard is a good add. Adds DC. Prestigious school. I hope thats the last one. Let’s stop at 14. I preferred 12…. but I think adding the best HBCUs from CAA footprint is not the worst idea. I am hoping this would attract better media deal. No need for any further expansion. Now CAA can be divided nicely North/South divisions.

(04-17-2022 07:31 PM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]Howard is a good add. Adds DC. Prestigious school. I hope thats the last one. Let’s stop at 14. I preferred 12…. but I think adding the best HBCUs from CAA footprint is not the worst idea. I am hoping this would attract better media deal. No need for any further expansion. Now CAA can be divided nicely North/South divisions.

I've heard 16 was the target from the start from a reliable source. No reason to believe we'll stop now since 16 works better than 14 for divisional play. Add in a non football school and a football school and football and all sports have an even number of 16. Right now CAA football is at 15. I also think the CAA is going to want two HBCU schools in each division, so I think we add one more HBCU plus one more school.

(04-17-2022 07:31 PM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]Howard is a good add. Adds DC. Prestigious school. I hope thats the last one. Let’s stop at 14.

Totally agree. This is good. Howard is a great institution.

Fourteen allows for sane travel for all sports. All kinds of options for football pods or just loose "play mostly teams from your area." Basketball would wind up with 19 conference games. All good.

I don't see any argument/reason for 16.

(04-17-2022 09:52 PM)JonP Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-17-2022 07:31 PM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]Howard is a good add. Adds DC. Prestigious school. I hope thats the last one. Let’s stop at 14.

Totally agree. This is good. Howard is a great institution.

Fourteen allows for sane travel for all sports. All kinds of options for football pods or just loose "play mostly teams from your area." Basketball would wind up with 19 conference games. All good.

I don't see any argument/reason for 16.

Agreed. No argument for 16. Besides, when A&T joined I saw this clip from their AD’s presentation to the executive board

Source :You can see the image here halfway down the article.

South had 5 and North had 7. With A&T and Howard, south is now 7 and done.

(04-17-2022 11:18 PM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-17-2022 09:52 PM)JonP Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-17-2022 07:31 PM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]Howard is a good add. Adds DC. Prestigious school. I hope thats the last one. Let’s stop at 14.

Totally agree. This is good. Howard is a great institution.

Fourteen allows for sane travel for all sports. All kinds of options for football pods or just loose "play mostly teams from your area." Basketball would wind up with 19 conference games. All good.

I don't see any argument/reason for 16.

Agreed. No argument for 16. Besides, when A&T joined I saw this clip from their AD’s presentation to the executive board

Source :You can see the image here halfway down the article.

South had 5 and North had 7. With A&T and Howard, south is now 7 and done.

We will see. That slide included the existing schools in, and committed to, the CAA so the N/S divisions would only include current schools. Yes, Howard and NC A&T...if Howard is added to the South...would even the CAA divisions at seven each. But I will tell you that I have confirmed information that the original goal was 16 and my source would know. Things change, and reality may have changed that goal, but it was the goal.

16 is too big. It would be ironic that this over-expansion in my view for “insurance” leads Delaware and W&M to bolt to the Patriot League in all sports and take Richmond and Villanova along with them as football affiliates.

(04-18-2022 05:39 AM)82hawk Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-17-2022 11:18 PM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-17-2022 09:52 PM)JonP Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-17-2022 07:31 PM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]Howard is a good add. Adds DC. Prestigious school. I hope thats the last one. Let’s stop at 14.

Totally agree. This is good. Howard is a great institution.

Fourteen allows for sane travel for all sports. All kinds of options for football pods or just loose "play mostly teams from your area." Basketball would wind up with 19 conference games. All good.

I don't see any argument/reason for 16.

Agreed. No argument for 16. Besides, when A&T joined I saw this clip from their AD’s presentation to the executive board

Source :You can see the image here halfway down the article.

South had 5 and North had 7. With A&T and Howard, south is now 7 and done.

We will see. That slide included the existing schools in, and committed to, the CAA so the N/S divisions would only include current schools. Yes, Howard and NC A&T...if Howard is added to the South...would even the CAA divisions at seven each. But I will tell you that I have confirmed information that the original goal was 16 and my source would know. Things change, and reality may have changed that goal, but it was the goal.

Perhaps it's incremental growth or they were expecting to get UNCG

(04-18-2022 07:22 AM)Sitting bull Wrote: [ -> ]16 is too big. It would be ironic that this over-expansion in my view for “insurance” leads Delaware and W&M to bolt to the Patriot League in all sports and take Richmond and Villanova along with them as football affiliates.

Sixteen was the number needed for each division to create schedules independently within each division, therefore reducing travel costs and assuring one home and one away game with each school. It isn't just an arbitrary number for fun. Like I said, we'll see, but that was the goal. And going from 14 to 16 would be a ridiculous reason for Delaware or anybody to leave. But if W&M and Delaware left, sobeit.

Maybe sixteen is the ultimate goal. But it shouldn't be the goal for this round of realignment. Stick with 14, see how it works. If it's working well, then maybe growth to 16 can be on the table, and the CAA can take their pick of the two best candidates at that time. There is no reason to reach for two more candidates right not just to get to 16.

(04-18-2022 08:35 AM)82hawk Wrote: [ -> ]Sixteen was the number needed for each division to create schedules independently within each division, therefore reducing travel costs and assuring one home and one away game with each school. It isn't just an arbitrary number for fun. Like I said, we'll see, but that was the goal. And going from 14 to 16 would be a ridiculous reason for Delaware or anybody to leave. But if W&M and Delaware left, sobeit.

I will say, it sure would be nice to hear CAA's strategy and thinking on all of this.

Because I don't see the need for two 8-team divisions. With 15 in football, they can do 3-team pods or 5-team pods. Schools will still get plenty of travel cost containment.

In the Olympic sports, there's no requirement that every team play every other school. Pick a number of league games and try to schedule sensibly.

Basketball looks perfectly decent at 14.
North: Northeastern, Hofstra, Stony Brook, Monmouth, Drexel, Delaware, Towson
South: Howard, W&M, Hampton, UNCW, NC A&T, Elon, Charleston

(04-18-2022 08:35 AM)82hawk Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2022 07:22 AM)Sitting bull Wrote: [ -> ]16 is too big. It would be ironic that this over-expansion in my view for “insurance” leads Delaware and W&M to bolt to the Patriot League in all sports and take Richmond and Villanova along with them as football affiliates.

Sixteen was the number needed for each division to create schedules independently within each division, therefore reducing travel costs and assuring one home and one away game with each school. It isn't just an arbitrary number for fun. Like I said, we'll see, but that was the goal. And going from 14 to 16 would be a ridiculous reason for Delaware or anybody to leave. But if W&M and Delaware left, sobeit.

You have been the primary proponent of the Divisional set-up and going by your thoughts, the south would look as follows:
Howard, W&M, Hampton, NC Central, UNCW, Elon, NC A&T and Charleston.

I honestly can’t see how W&M would look at that list of primary athletic partners and think that makes any sense or holds any interest to the fan base. There’s not a single rival on the list. Maybe I’m wrong, but it would be a structure that I think should push W&M to look for an exit toward our traditional rivals. That might be the Patriot if Richmond and Villanova also shifted for football.

Then you could replace us with Campbell in your dream world.

(04-18-2022 08:46 AM)jcohen42 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe sixteen is the ultimate goal. But it shouldn't be the goal for this round of realignment. Stick with 14, see how it works. If it's working well, then maybe growth to 16 can be on the table, and the CAA can take their pick of the two best candidates at that time. There is no reason to reach for two more candidates right not just to get to 16.

16 shouldn’t be the goal of any round of realignment for mid-major conference. If 14 works, great. We stick with it. If it doesn’t work… then 16 won’t work either.

12 would have been best.

14 is ok. I understand the reason/logic behind adding A&T and Howard. It has potential for marketing… with 14 diverse members (privates/publics/HBCUs) CAA now can check different marketing strategies. Boston/NY/Philly/Baltimore/DC big cities checked, good academics checked, top HBCU checked. Now the most important products need to be attractive:basketball and football. Mainly basketball cause FCS football is not going to bring dollars. Morgan st, Campbell etc won’t help with that. Probably Hampton neither. But I think A&T, Monmouth and Stony Brook all have the potential to be CAA upper echelon teams.

But 16 is doomed to fail.

(04-18-2022 09:56 AM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]14 is ok. I understand the reason/logic behind adding A&T and Howard. It has potential for marketing… with 14 diverse members (privates/publics/HBCUs) CAA now can check different marketing strategies. Boston/NY/Philly/Baltimore/DC big cities checked, good academics checked, top HBCU checked. Now the most important products need to be attractive:basketball and football.

Totally agree.

And I really, really, really hope this is a prelude to a better media deal than FloSports.

(04-18-2022 09:56 AM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2022 08:46 AM)jcohen42 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe sixteen is the ultimate goal. But it shouldn't be the goal for this round of realignment. Stick with 14, see how it works. If it's working well, then maybe growth to 16 can be on the table, and the CAA can take their pick of the two best candidates at that time. There is no reason to reach for two more candidates right not just to get to 16.

16 shouldn’t be the goal of any round of realignment for mid-major conference. If 14 works, great. We stick with it. If it doesn’t work… then 16 won’t work either.

12 would have been best.

14 is ok. I understand the reason/logic behind adding A&T and Howard. It has potential for marketing… with 14 diverse members (privates/publics/HBCUs) CAA now can check different marketing strategies. Boston/NY/Philly/Baltimore/DC big cities checked, good academics checked, top HBCU checked. Now the most important products need to be attractive:basketball and football. Mainly basketball cause FCS football is not going to bring dollars. Morgan st, Campbell etc won’t help with that. Probably Hampton neither. But I think A&T, Monmouth and Stony Brook all have the potential to be CAA upper echelon teams.

But 16 is doomed to fail.

If you're a stable conference at 14, and there are legitimate candidates to add, it makes no sense to set an arbitrary threshold as being "doomed to fail". You don't progress by limiting your options.

Is 16 likely to work? No, it's not. But neither you nor I knows what the landscape will look like in 5 years.

EDIT: And by legitimate, I mean surefire candidates that make the conference stronger. They do not currently exist. In 5 years, that could change.

(04-18-2022 11:23 AM)jcohen42 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2022 09:56 AM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2022 08:46 AM)jcohen42 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe sixteen is the ultimate goal. But it shouldn't be the goal for this round of realignment. Stick with 14, see how it works. If it's working well, then maybe growth to 16 can be on the table, and the CAA can take their pick of the two best candidates at that time. There is no reason to reach for two more candidates right not just to get to 16.

16 shouldn’t be the goal of any round of realignment for mid-major conference. If 14 works, great. We stick with it. If it doesn’t work… then 16 won’t work either.

12 would have been best.

14 is ok. I understand the reason/logic behind adding A&T and Howard. It has potential for marketing… with 14 diverse members (privates/publics/HBCUs) CAA now can check different marketing strategies. Boston/NY/Philly/Baltimore/DC big cities checked, good academics checked, top HBCU checked. Now the most important products need to be attractive:basketball and football. Mainly basketball cause FCS football is not going to bring dollars. Morgan st, Campbell etc won’t help with that. Probably Hampton neither. But I think A&T, Monmouth and Stony Brook all have the potential to be CAA upper echelon teams.

But 16 is doomed to fail.

If you're a stable conference at 14, and there are legitimate candidates to add, it makes no sense to set an arbitrary threshold as being "doomed to fail". You don't progress by limiting your options.

Is 16 likely to work? No, it's not. But neither you nor I knows what the landscape will look like in 5 years.

EDIT: And by legitimate, I mean surefire candidates that make the conference stronger. They do not currently exist. In 5 years, that could change.

Fair enough. I was looking at the current landscape. But yeah. In a few years..there might be quality A10 level candidate who can’t get into A10 since a10 is bloated and who can elevate the CAA conference. Not just to add for the sake of security/insurance/travel/division etc. reasons.

(04-18-2022 01:04 PM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2022 11:23 AM)jcohen42 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2022 09:56 AM)ibby10 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2022 08:46 AM)jcohen42 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe sixteen is the ultimate goal. But it shouldn't be the goal for this round of realignment. Stick with 14, see how it works. If it's working well, then maybe growth to 16 can be on the table, and the CAA can take their pick of the two best candidates at that time. There is no reason to reach for two more candidates right not just to get to 16.

16 shouldn’t be the goal of any round of realignment for mid-major conference. If 14 works, great. We stick with it. If it doesn’t work… then 16 won’t work either.

12 would have been best.

14 is ok. I understand the reason/logic behind adding A&T and Howard. It has potential for marketing… with 14 diverse members (privates/publics/HBCUs) CAA now can check different marketing strategies. Boston/NY/Philly/Baltimore/DC big cities checked, good academics checked, top HBCU checked. Now the most important products need to be attractive:basketball and football. Mainly basketball cause FCS football is not going to bring dollars. Morgan st, Campbell etc won’t help with that. Probably Hampton neither. But I think A&T, Monmouth and Stony Brook all have the potential to be CAA upper echelon teams.

But 16 is doomed to fail.

If you're a stable conference at 14, and there are legitimate candidates to add, it makes no sense to set an arbitrary threshold as being "doomed to fail". You don't progress by limiting your options.

Is 16 likely to work? No, it's not. But neither you nor I knows what the landscape will look like in 5 years.

EDIT: And by legitimate, I mean surefire candidates that make the conference stronger. They do not currently exist. In 5 years, that could change.

Fair enough. I was looking at the current landscape. But yeah. In a few years..there might be quality A10 level candidate who can’t get into A10 since a10 is bloated and who can elevate the CAA conference. Not just to add for the sake of security/insurance/travel/division etc. reasons.

Creating divisions was the first step and the current makeup and recent adds are, imo, quality. I agree, there is no reason to go past the current 14 unless the adds are also quality. The HBCU's are strategic and give the CAA a differentiating feature from other conferences and that should pay off. We are in a position where travel has been addressed in a significant manner and some potential rivalries have been put in place in the conference.

We should be in a good spoot to secure a decent broadcast package a this point.

(04-18-2022 08:56 AM)Sitting bull Wrote: [ -> ]You have been the primary proponent of the Divisional set-up and going by your thoughts, the south would look as follows:
Howard, W&M, Hampton, NC Central, UNCW, Elon, NC A&T and Charleston.

I honestly can’t see how W&M would look at that list of primary athletic partners and think that makes any sense or holds any interest to the fan base. There’s not a single rival on the list. Maybe I’m wrong, but it would be a structure that I think should push W&M to look for an exit toward our traditional rivals. That might be the Patriot if Richmond and Villanova also shifted for football.

W&M needs to decide what they want. To this point their peers are a mixed bag of academic peers and athletic peers. Academically W&M is a Patriot league school. But W&M and their boosters want fully funded football so your peers in football have been 1-AA/FCS local schools that have little to do with academic prestige. Problem is your football peers have moved on and grown, W&M has shown 0 desire to do so. So I would venture to guess W&M is fine as long as Richmond and Villanova are around. Otherwise Howard and Hampton or god forbid, Norfolk State are your only ones left.

So what does W&M want? Football peers or academic peers? Other? Staying at the FCS level, from an outsider these moves would appear to be positive for W&M with more local teams at your football level, which seems to be the driving force.