The Texas 4 from January 2021 is now the Texas 2. 1 of the 4 went FBS. The WAC is far more spread out than the Southland. And it is full of non-football playing schools including the latest adds. It looks more and more like it will not be able to ever go FBS. What was the primary reason the Texas 4 bolted from the Southland to the WAC? Will any of the other schools return to the Southland? What is the future of the WAC?
(04-15-2022 09:37 AM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ]The Texas 4 from January 2021 is now the Texas 2. The WAC is far more spread out than the Southland. And it is full of non-football playing schools including the latest adds. It looks more and more like it will not be able to ever go FBS. What is the future of the WAC?
Facts...
1) The "latest adds" have all been football schools - Incarnate Word, "the Texas 4", Southern Utah. Not sure where "it is full of non-football playing schools including the latest adds" represents?
2) UTRGV is adding football which will give the league a total of seven football-playing institutions (the others are Abilene Christian, Tarleton State, Utah Tech, Stephen F Austin, Southern Utah and Incarnate Word). The league will be fine for FCS football (six needed for AQ) pending departures.
3) There were three WAC schools most interested in seeing the league becoming FBS. Two of them will no longer be in the league (Sam Houston and New Mexico State). Tarleton State is also very much on the FBS bandwagon but they also need to complete their transition. The "desire" to go FBS is really not there anymore.
The WAC's biggest issue is if Tarleton (most likely candidate to go FBS from the remaining schools) goes FBS and/or Incarnate Word retreats to the Southland (CollegeAD is reporting they have a Southland offer in front of them). There seems to be no interest from Division II schools in the Lonestar Conference to make the move up.
Your post otherwise fails to recognize the make-up of the WAC at present as well as its recent add ons, plus an understanding of which school(s) were making the push for FBS.
(04-15-2022 09:49 AM)TexasTerror Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 09:37 AM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ]The Texas 4 from January 2021 is now the Texas 2. The WAC is far more spread out than the Southland. And it is full of non-football playing schools including the latest adds. It looks more and more like it will not be able to ever go FBS. What is the future of the WAC?
Facts...
1) The "latest adds" have all been football schools - Incarnate Word, "the Texas 4", Southern Utah. Not sure where "it is full of non-football playing schools including the latest adds" represents?
2) UTRGV is adding football which will give the league a total of seven football-playing institutions (the others are Abilene Christian, Tarleton State, Utah Tech, Stephen F Austin, Southern Utah and Incarnate Word). The league will be fine for FCS football (six needed for AQ) pending departures.
3) There were three WAC schools most interested in seeing the league becoming FBS. Two of them will no longer be in the league (Sam Houston and New Mexico State). Tarleton State is also very much on the FBS bandwagon but they also need to complete their transition. The "desire" to go FBS is really not there anymore.
The WAC's biggest issue is if Tarleton (most likely candidate to go FBS from the remaining schools) goes FBS and/or Incarnate Word retreats to the Southland (CollegeAD is reporting they have a Southland offer in front of them). There seems to be no interest from Division II schools in the Lonestar Conference to make the move up.
Your post otherwise fails to recognize the make-up of the WAC at present as well as its recent add ons, plus an understanding of which school(s) were making the push for FBS.
If I am not mistaken, the latest add to the WAC is UTA, a non-football playing school. UTRGV has plans to add football, but has yet to do it. I realize that Tarleton is the primary school pushing for FBS, but it is still currently Division 2. New Mexico State is currently FBS but is committed to C-USA and leaving the WAC.
(04-15-2022 10:09 AM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ]If I am not mistaken, the latest add to the WAC is UTA, a non-football playing school. UTRGV has plans to add football, but has yet to do it. I realize that Tarleton is the primary school pushing for FBS, but it is still currently Division 2. New Mexico State is currently FBS but is committed to C-USA and leaving the WAC.
Ah yes, Texas-Arlington. Sorry about that, you are correct but the other remaining adds have been football schools.
And UTRGV is well on their way to adding football in 2025. The vote(s) passed where they needed to. Nothing has led anyone to believe they will not.
Tarleton State is not Division II. They are Division I in all sports (they were a full counter this year) and Division I FCS in football. Yes, they are still in the midst of transition - but they are not Division II. In 2022, they play Texas Christian in football and this past year played some of the biggest and best names in basketball.
New Mexico State - I referenced in the initial post. They wanted the WAC to be FBS in football and were the biggest cheerleader for it (alongside Sam Houston), but yes - both are gone thus, Tarleton is the only school remaining that has known FBS aspirations.
The point is - what makes the WAC more attractive than the Southland? The WAC is very much non-football (non-football schools - California Baptist, Grand Canyon, Seatle, Utah Valley, UTRGV, and UTA) and is spread out from Seatle to Nachidoches.
(04-15-2022 10:36 AM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ]The point is - what makes the WAC more attractive than the Southland? The WAC is very much non-football (non-football schools - California Baptist, Grand Canyon, Seatle, Utah Valley, UTRGV, and UTA and is spread out from Seatle to Nachidoches.
1) The WAC as a basketball league in '21-22 was ranked 14 spots higher than the Southland. It is not unrealistic for a WAC automatic bid to have a significantly better matchup and chance to make noise in March Madness. Keep in mind, more $$$ is made off of basketball than FCS football.
2) The WAC's Texas Division (let's call it what it is) is tighter geographically than the Southland. The only sports with cross-divisional play is hoops and football. Yes, the championships are on either side of the divisions, but
the travel argument is blown out of proportion. In football due to lack of FCS teams in the area, you got to largely hop on planes for OOC games. Now the WAC schools can play SLC schools in OOC play and make a similar amount of flights as they had before.
3) The schools all have greater upside and ability to put $$$ into athletics. The gap was only growing and will continue to grow.
4) ESPN+. Said it before, the only reason SLC schools finally added ESPN+ to their offerings was they were in deep crap with the contract since all the departing schools (Texas four + UCA) made up a significant portion of their non-football ESPN+ offerings as I believe only Corpus & SLU were up to snuff in that department.
And now with the changes in the Southland...
5) McNeese State. McNeese basically runs the league and is hosting all major championships for the foreseeable future. They caught the Southland with their pants down and outside of Lamar, why would any of the Texas WAC schools want to be in that? Lamar is down with it because their biggest fan base is 'old school' people who cherish the McNeese rivalry like it's the 70s and 80s still, plus it's a short drive for them.
The Southland headquarters is in Frisco, Texas. The WAC headquarters is in Colorado, a state with no WAC members. The better basketball rating is in large part because of Stephen F Austin being in the WAC instead of the SLC. Travel is stilll an issue for basketball schools, and there are no travel partners in the west. The Texas football schools will have to travel to Utah. The SLC is re-branding itself with the Troika Media Group, making it more attractive than before, and more attractive to African-Americans. Lamar lead the way for the Texas 4 and now they are renegging. Why?
(04-15-2022 11:28 AM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ]The Southland headquarters is in Frisco, Texas. The WAC headquarters is in Colorado, a state with no WAC members. The better basketball rating is in large part because of Stephen F Austin being in the WAC instead of the SLC. Travel is stilll an issue for basketball schools, and there are no travel partners in the west. The Texas football schools will have to travel to Utah. The SLC is re-branding itself with the Troika Media Group, making it more attractive than before, and more attractive to African-Americans. Lamar lead the way for the Texas 4 and now they are renegging. Why?
What does the HQ have to do with anything? Do you know how often they meet in person? If most of your meetings are conference calls, location doesn’t really matter.
Travel is not an issue for basketball schools.
You’re a SMU fan. Your football team travels to Philadelphia, Maryland, and North Carolina for games. How is traveling from Texas to Utah any different?
(04-15-2022 12:00 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 11:28 AM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ]The Southland headquarters is in Frisco, Texas. The WAC headquarters is in Colorado, a state with no WAC members. The better basketball rating is in large part because of Stephen F Austin being in the WAC instead of the SLC. Travel is stilll an issue for basketball schools, and there are no travel partners in the west. The Texas football schools will have to travel to Utah. The SLC is re-branding itself with the Troika Media Group, making it more attractive than before, and more attractive to African-Americans. Lamar lead the way for the Texas 4 and now they are renegging. Why?
What does the HQ have to do with anything? Do you know how often they meet in person? If most of your meetings are conference calls, location doesn’t really matter.
Travel is not an issue for basketball schools.
You’re a SMU fan. Your football team travels to Philadelphia, Maryland, and North Carolina for games. How is traveling from Texas to Utah any different?
Would you like to compare SMU's athletic budget with say SFA's, or Tarleton St?
And Lamar didn’t lead the way for the Texas institutions leaving the Southland
That’s the equivalent of saying Texas Tech led the charge of the breakup of the Southwest Conference!
Lamar rode coattails - I’ve heard the leaders of the other three schools mentioned predominantly but never Lamar
(04-15-2022 01:23 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: [ -> ]And Lamar didn’t lead the way for the Texas institutions leaving the Southland
That’s the equivalent of saying Texas Tech led the charge of the breakup of the Southwest Conference!
Lamar rode coattails - I’ve heard the leaders of the other three schools mentioned predominantly but never Lamar
Tarleton paved the way to the WAC. The "Texas4" followed. That's the truth of the matter.
Southland can have Lamar and UIW back, but will have to pry ACU and SFA away from the WAC's cold dead hands.
Tarleton will never go to Southland. To say that bridge is burnt would be an understatement of behemoth proportion.
(04-15-2022 02:01 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 01:23 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: [ -> ]And Lamar didn’t lead the way for the Texas institutions leaving the Southland
That’s the equivalent of saying Texas Tech led the charge of the breakup of the Southwest Conference!
Lamar rode coattails - I’ve heard the leaders of the other three schools mentioned predominantly but never Lamar
Tarleton paved the way to the WAC. The "Texas4" followed. That's the truth of the matter.
Southland can have Lamar and UIW back, but will have to pry ACU and SFA away from the WAC's cold dead hands.
Tarleton will never go to Southland. To say that bridge is burnt would be an understatement of behemoth proportion.
Why? Because ACU and SFA are much stronger in basketball than Lamar and UIW. The WAC is a basketball conference with FCS football. Will Tarleton with FBS aspirations be long in the WAC?
Are they ripe for a C-USA invitation?
(04-15-2022 12:57 PM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 12:00 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 11:28 AM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ]The Southland headquarters is in Frisco, Texas. The WAC headquarters is in Colorado, a state with no WAC members. The better basketball rating is in large part because of Stephen F Austin being in the WAC instead of the SLC. Travel is stilll an issue for basketball schools, and there are no travel partners in the west. The Texas football schools will have to travel to Utah. The SLC is re-branding itself with the Troika Media Group, making it more attractive than before, and more attractive to African-Americans. Lamar lead the way for the Texas 4 and now they are renegging. Why?
What does the HQ have to do with anything? Do you know how often they meet in person? If most of your meetings are conference calls, location doesn’t really matter.
Travel is not an issue for basketball schools.
You’re a SMU fan. Your football team travels to Philadelphia, Maryland, and North Carolina for games. How is traveling from Texas to Utah any different?
Would you like to compare SMU's athletic budget with say SFA's, or Tarleton St?
Your points and assumptions are garbage. And how does some media group give the SLC an advantage over the WAC for “African Americans”? If the school and athletics facilities suck, you mean to tell me their re-branding is going to make them not go to a WAC school?
I asked you questions and you just jump to bringing up an athletics budget. SFA’s budget and projections probably included trips to Utah for football and so did Tarleton’s.
What WAC/SLC school do you root for anyway? Just here because you’re bored and want to re-hash stuff talked about for 2 straight years.
(04-15-2022 02:49 PM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 02:01 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 01:23 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: [ -> ]And Lamar didn’t lead the way for the Texas institutions leaving the Southland
That’s the equivalent of saying Texas Tech led the charge of the breakup of the Southwest Conference!
Lamar rode coattails - I’ve heard the leaders of the other three schools mentioned predominantly but never Lamar
Tarleton paved the way to the WAC. The "Texas4" followed. That's the truth of the matter.
Southland can have Lamar and UIW back, but will have to pry ACU and SFA away from the WAC's cold dead hands.
Tarleton will never go to Southland. To say that bridge is burnt would be an understatement of behemoth proportion.
Why? Because ACU and SFA are much stronger in basketball than Lamar and UIW. The WAC is a basketball conference with FCS football. Will Tarleton with FBS aspirations be long in the WAC?
Are they ripe for a C-USA invitation?
Tarleton is anything but ripe for a CUSA invitation, although Matt Brown has categorized them as "desperate" to move up.
Their athletic budget ($11M as of 19-20) is puny compared to EKU, SFA and Kennesaw's budgets. Their football budget is hardly half of SHSU, SFA and Lamar's. Their attendance numbers look solid... until you watch one singular game and realize empty seats are counted as "fans". CUSA reps found this out the hard way, when they reportedly left at halftime during their game with SHSU this fall. They're non-competitive in basketball, which CUSA is strong in and will be looking to improve upon.
They basically add nothing, although they like to claim they command the Forth Worth market. When their name was first brought up in talks publicly, Tarleton State was the butt of every CUSA joke. The perception of a D2 quality school joining might kill the conference. TSU won't be CUSA anytime soon.
(04-15-2022 02:59 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 12:57 PM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 12:00 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 11:28 AM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ]The Southland headquarters is in Frisco, Texas. The WAC headquarters is in Colorado, a state with no WAC members. The better basketball rating is in large part because of Stephen F Austin being in the WAC instead of the SLC. Travel is stilll an issue for basketball schools, and there are no travel partners in the west. The Texas football schools will have to travel to Utah. The SLC is re-branding itself with the Troika Media Group, making it more attractive than before, and more attractive to African-Americans. Lamar lead the way for the Texas 4 and now they are renegging. Why?
What does the HQ have to do with anything? Do you know how often they meet in person? If most of your meetings are conference calls, location doesn’t really matter.
Travel is not an issue for basketball schools.
You’re a SMU fan. Your football team travels to Philadelphia, Maryland, and North Carolina for games. How is traveling from Texas to Utah any different?
Would you like to compare SMU's athletic budget with say SFA's, or Tarleton St?
Your points and assumptions are garbage. And how does some media group give the SLC an advantage over the WAC for “African Americans”? If the school and athletics facilities suck, you mean to tell me their re-branding is going to not go to a WAC school?
I asked you questions and you just jump to bringing up an athletics budget. SFA’s budget and projections probably included trips to Utah for football and so did Tarleton’s.
What WAC/SLC school do you root for anyway? Just here because you’re bored and want to re-hash stuff talked about for 2 straight years.
Maybe he roots for the entire ******* conference? Like you.
Speaking of Matt Brown, I bothered to watch his last podcast and got a bit intrigued by a mention of alternate possibilities if the P5calypse happens; a consideration by some athletic directors of football conferences separate from conferences for other sports, and/or some side associations like the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation. Mind you, I can see that rubbing against some conference commissioner egos the wrong way, but what are your interests if hybrid options spring up?
(04-15-2022 03:18 PM)SammyH Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 02:49 PM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 02:01 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2022 01:23 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: [ -> ]And Lamar didn’t lead the way for the Texas institutions leaving the Southland
That’s the equivalent of saying Texas Tech led the charge of the breakup of the Southwest Conference!
Lamar rode coattails - I’ve heard the leaders of the other three schools mentioned predominantly but never Lamar
Tarleton paved the way to the WAC. The "Texas4" followed. That's the truth of the matter.
Southland can have Lamar and UIW back, but will have to pry ACU and SFA away from the WAC's cold dead hands.
Tarleton will never go to Southland. To say that bridge is burnt would be an understatement of behemoth proportion.
Why? Because ACU and SFA are much stronger in basketball than Lamar and UIW. The WAC is a basketball conference with FCS football. Will Tarleton with FBS aspirations be long in the WAC?
Are they ripe for a C-USA invitation?
Tarleton is anything but ripe for a CUSA invitation, although Matt Brown has categorized them as "desperate" to move up.
Their athletic budget ($11M as of 19-20) is puny compared to EKU, SFA and Kennesaw's budgets. Their football budget is hardly half of SHSU, SFA and Lamar's. Their attendance numbers look solid... until you watch one singular game and realize empty seats are counted as "fans". CUSA reps found this out the hard way, when they reportedly left at halftime during their game with SHSU this fall. They're non-competitive in basketball, which CUSA is strong in and will be looking to improve upon.
They basically add nothing, although they like to claim they command the Forth Worth market. When their name was first brought up in talks publicly, Tarleton State was the butt of every CUSA joke. The perception of a D2 quality school joining might kill the conference. TSU won't be CUSA anytime soon.
Lol dude why do you have such a raging ****on for Tarleton? I know why, just want you to say it...
What happened to SMUstang? Did he go run back to the AAC board lol
(04-15-2022 10:36 AM)SMUstang Wrote: [ -> ]The point is - what makes the WAC more attractive than the Southland? The WAC is very much non-football (non-football schools - California Baptist, Grand Canyon, Seatle, Utah Valley, UTRGV, and UTA) and is spread out from Seatle to Nachidoches.
Basketball. That’s what makes the WAC more attractive than the SLC. And basketball success will bring more add more advertising value to a school than even a top 10 rating in FCS football. Even with the loss of NMSU and Sam Houston, the WAC will still have a higher NET rating than the Southland.
Having a successful WAC FCS football conference is an important addition to the WAC but is of secondary importance to a successful D1 basketball conference. Let’s hope UIW honors its commitment to upgrade its basketball facilities and invest in better coaching and recruiting. Until then, their successful football program they will enhance the value of the football conference.Meanwhile, the addition of Southern Utah will help both basketball and football while the loss of Lamar will help the WAC’s basketball NET score and won’t be much of a loss to football, other than the fact we lose a football playing school.
(04-16-2022 12:24 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote: [ -> ]What happened to SMUstang? Did he go run back to the AAC board lol
I'm here..........