CSNbbs

I'd be shocked is SFA isn't one of them. SHSU and SFA belong in the same league together.

To think that just 8 years ago, at the dawn of the CFP era, CUSA was taking its pick from the Sun Belt and was the "hot" G5 conference property, right behind the AAC and MW.

Now they are talking about dredging up additional FCS schools.

My oh my ....

Terrible news (but probably inevitable).

I really hated to read that.

If they are talking to 1-3 schools, this could usher in a new round of realignment before this one is even over.

I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

No.

The answer is no. Nine is absolutely the best call here.

Hopefully it's just "talks" and nothing immediate or real. It's ok to talk about it (they need a plan for the next wave).

Just stick with 9 until you actually need someone else.

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

10 makes sense because of the ability to have all teams playing the same day with no byes and also in basketball to be able to do double round robin at 18 games.

Also more teams equals more volume for TV.
9 teams gets you 36 conference games plus if you have 2 OOC games 18 games for 54 games
10 teams/8 games gets you 4 more conference games plus 2 more OOC games to get you up to 60 games.

It wouldn't be a shock at all to see CUSA to go up to 10 or even 12 teams(which would be 48 conference games plus 24 OOC games for 72 games total).

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

Yeah this is a problem for CUSA.

I thought CUSA would have been smarter trying to form a bridge to the Dakotas rather than build toward FIU with Jax St. MoSt and NDSU/SDSU maybe with a few non FB members thrown in for travel like UNO and UMKC.

CUSA is a lot like the WAC though in that its a great name to have painted on your basketball court. Feels like a real D1 conference unlike a low major.

(03-29-2022 11:11 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

10 makes sense because of the ability to have all teams playing the same day with no byes and also in basketball to be able to do double round robin at 18 games.

Also more teams equals more volume for TV.
9 teams gets you 36 conference games plus if you have 2 OOC games 18 games for 54 games
10 teams/8 games gets you 4 more conference games plus 2 more OOC games to get you up to 60 games.

It wouldn't be a shock at all to see CUSA to go up to 10 or even 12 teams(which would be 48 conference games plus 24 OOC games for 72 games total).

Yes, but at what cost? You get more games on television featuring a program that isn't ready and nobody is going to tune in for? Look, if you can't get butts in seats already, you're going to have a hard time convincing fans to tune into the game when there are dozens of other options at that same time. I understand the incentive to go to ten or twelve, but I don't think you rush there just for an extra dollar.

(03-29-2022 11:11 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

10 makes sense because of the ability to have all teams playing the same day with no byes and also in basketball to be able to do double round robin at 18 games.

Also more teams equals more volume for TV.
9 teams gets you 36 conference games plus if you have 2 OOC games 18 games for 54 games
10 teams/8 games gets you 4 more conference games plus 2 more OOC games to get you up to 60 games.

It wouldn't be a shock at all to see CUSA to go up to 10 or even 12 teams(which would be 48 conference games plus 24 OOC games for 72 games total).

None of those reasons hold water to me.

Byes don't matter. Certainly not worth the trade off of giving up round robin.


And more volume for tv only matters if you can get a bigger deal per school. Who is going to move the needle on that?

Ok, basketball scheduling is actually better with 10. So that's true. But makes football scheduling worse, so it's a draw at best (and since I care more about football, it's not a draw).

(03-29-2022 11:16 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

Yeah this is a problem for CUSA.

I thought CUSA would have been smarter trying to form a bridge to the Dakotas rather than build toward FIU with Jax St. MoSt and NDSU/SDSU maybe with a few non FB members thrown in for travel like UNO and UMKC.

CUSA is a lot like the WAC though in that its a great name to have painted on your basketball court. Feels like a real D1 conference unlike a low major.

CUSA is improving in basketball.

(03-29-2022 10:39 PM)GeminiCoog Wrote: [ -> ]I'd be shocked is SFA isn't one of them. SHSU and SFA belong in the same league together.

Now is the time for CUSA to blaze a trail and elevate Jackson State to FBS.

This is the perfect time for this move - for both parties. They fit in perfectly geographically and brand-wise (with Jacksonville State as a potential rival).

(03-29-2022 11:20 PM)8993 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 11:11 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

10 makes sense because of the ability to have all teams playing the same day with no byes and also in basketball to be able to do double round robin at 18 games.

Also more teams equals more volume for TV.
9 teams gets you 36 conference games plus if you have 2 OOC games 18 games for 54 games
10 teams/8 games gets you 4 more conference games plus 2 more OOC games to get you up to 60 games.

It wouldn't be a shock at all to see CUSA to go up to 10 or even 12 teams(which would be 48 conference games plus 24 OOC games for 72 games total).

Yes, but at what cost? You get more games on television featuring a program that isn't ready and nobody is going to tune in for? Look, if you can't get butts in seats already, you're going to have a hard time convincing fans to tune into the game when there are dozens of other options at that same time. I understand the incentive to go to ten or twelve, but I don't think you rush there just for an extra dollar.

It's only an extra dollar to begin with if you get more than 1.1 times what you'd have got for 9. Who is available that's worth that?

(03-29-2022 11:22 PM)inutech Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 11:11 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

10 makes sense because of the ability to have all teams playing the same day with no byes and also in basketball to be able to do double round robin at 18 games.

Also more teams equals more volume for TV.
9 teams gets you 36 conference games plus if you have 2 OOC games 18 games for 54 games
10 teams/8 games gets you 4 more conference games plus 2 more OOC games to get you up to 60 games.

It wouldn't be a shock at all to see CUSA to go up to 10 or even 12 teams(which would be 48 conference games plus 24 OOC games for 72 games total).

None of those reasons hold water to me.

Byes don't matter. Certainly not worth the trade off of giving up round robin.


And more volume for tv only matters if you can get a bigger deal per school. Who is going to move the needle on that?

Ok, basketball scheduling is actually better with 10. So that's true. But makes football scheduling worse, so it's a draw at best (and since I care more about football, it's not a draw).

I think the schools think byes aren't great at all. They want to be on the field pretty much all October and November with no days off. Counting on OOC games is pretty tricky.

More volume for tv might allow CUSA to just keep their current payout. That's the thing.

It wouldn't be shocking at all to see CUSA expand by 1 to even 3 teams.

(03-29-2022 11:16 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

Yeah this is a problem for CUSA.

I thought CUSA would have been smarter trying to form a bridge to the Dakotas rather than build toward FIU with Jax St. MoSt and NDSU/SDSU maybe with a few non FB members thrown in for travel like UNO and UMKC.

CUSA is a lot like the WAC though in that its a great name to have painted on your basketball court. Feels like a real D1 conference unlike a low major.

Easier to build towards FIU (who aren't going anywhere anytime soon) I guess, plus more schools to pick from. There's still a few intriguing options at the FCS level in the south worth at least doing some due diligence on, including (among others):

• Kennesaw State
• North Carolina A&T (who have had FBS ambitions before)
• Chattanooga
• EKU
• SFA
• Tarleton State
• McNeese State (maybe)
• Missouri State
  

Not saying any of them will move the needle significantly, but if a 10 or 12 member lineup can make everyone's life easier logistically, it would be worth looking into.

And a round robin in a league with outposts in Florida and New Mexico like it or not makes no sense.

(03-29-2022 11:27 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 11:22 PM)inutech Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 11:11 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-29-2022 10:59 PM)8993 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a Sun Belt fan and mean no ill towards CUSA when I ask this: is there seriously anybody left that moves the needle enough to go past nine? And if yes, who and why?

Look, I understand that CUSA is in rebuild mode. It was inevitable after this last round of realignment. What I don't quite understand now is why would you go past nine when nine is enough to move forward with for the time being. There is no reason to rush to get to ten, twelve, or whatever. In my opinion, Jacksonville State was a great add. SHSU was... meh. Liberty and NMSU were FBS already, making them obvious choices. But looking past those few programs, who is left that still generates some level of excitement and/or will increase ticket revenue and media dollars while reducing travel expenses?

Off the top of my head, there are only a few programs that generate even the slightest interest from me as a fan. Those programs would NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Delaware, and SFA. Even then, three of those are drastically outside of the current footprint (NDSU, SDSU, and Montana), one of those hasn't shown interest in moving up anytime recently (Delaware), and the other just isn't there yet (SFA). So, why scrape the bottom of the barrel when there is no need to do so just yet? Why not let some of these programs build a bit more or see if any other cream rises to the top over the next few years? Hell, maybe ETSU, KSU, NCA&T, Towson, or somebody else will claw their way to the top soon, but for now, why not just hold tight and build your conference up rather than watering it down with unproven programs?

10 makes sense because of the ability to have all teams playing the same day with no byes and also in basketball to be able to do double round robin at 18 games.

Also more teams equals more volume for TV.
9 teams gets you 36 conference games plus if you have 2 OOC games 18 games for 54 games
10 teams/8 games gets you 4 more conference games plus 2 more OOC games to get you up to 60 games.

It wouldn't be a shock at all to see CUSA to go up to 10 or even 12 teams(which would be 48 conference games plus 24 OOC games for 72 games total).

None of those reasons hold water to me.

Byes don't matter. Certainly not worth the trade off of giving up round robin.


And more volume for tv only matters if you can get a bigger deal per school. Who is going to move the needle on that?

Ok, basketball scheduling is actually better with 10. So that's true. But makes football scheduling worse, so it's a draw at best (and since I care more about football, it's not a draw).

I think the schools think byes aren't great at all. They want to be on the field pretty much all October and November with no days off. Counting on OOC games is pretty tricky.

More volume for tv might allow CUSA to just keep their current payout. That's the thing.

It wouldn't be shocking at all to see CUSA expand by 1 to even 3 teams.

Maybe not shocking, but certainly disappointing.

The AAC has been fine with an odd number (more or less). Byes aren't a big deal.

The tv money only matters per school. If ten or twelve (of these teams) is worth that much more to tv, sure. But I sure don't see why it would be.

(03-29-2022 11:29 PM)stever20 Wrote: [ -> ]And a round robin in a league with outposts in Florida and New Mexico like it or not makes no sense.

It makes sense from a competitive standpoint.

You add one, you're not really improving travel much (might make it more expensive).

And at the cost of needlessly uneven schedules.

(03-29-2022 10:42 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ]To think that just 8 years ago, at the dawn of the CFP era, CUSA was taking its pick from the Sun Belt and was the "hot" G5 conference property, right behind the AAC and MW.

Now they are talking about dredging up additional FCS schools.

Truly a catastrophic implosion, and it's interesting to note that CUSA's implosion was caused, to a large extent, by the same sort of thing that caused the Big East to implode.

In both cases, the catastrophes occurred not long after the Big East and CUSA rejected a broadcasting agreements that had been proposed by ESPN.

In the Big East's case, they were foolish enough to reject an ESPN offer despite having no back-up plan. With no broadcasting deal, members started to jump ship.

It seems like something similar happened to the CUSA. If there's a lesson in all this, it may be to not burn one's bridges with ESPN until one has another broadcasting deal in the works.

.

Unfortunately, CUSA probably has no other choice than to expand. Bigger is better from the broadcasters' viewpoint, and the CUSA is rather small now. Adding new members and their markets could help to put them in a better bargaining position with broadcasters.

Things could get pretty bleak for them if they add obscure FCS schools - - and most of the FCS schools that seem to be on their short list have next to no brand recognition.

It may be the case that there's only one legitimate direction to move in now, and that would be the Dakotas, particularly North and South Dakota State. Both have excellent FB programs, and NDSU in particular has a huge national following. If they don't add NDSU, in particular, they may end up consigning themselves to oblivion for decades in the basement of the G5.