Call me a debbie downer, but I just don't see Tennessee State as an FBS potential program (the likes of NC A&T and to a lesser extent FAMU and Jackson State are ones I would imagine finding a way to make the jump to FBS).
C-USA should go with the “fake it til you make it” strategy.
They’ve got New Mexico State.
Throw in Tennessee State, Missouri State, North Dakota State, Montana, Delaware. Any school with a non-directional state name. Make your lineup *sound* as big time as possible.
Called it!
It makes sense considering they have an NFL facility and are located in Nashville, the capital of the Midwest, errrr I mean mid-south?
I was starting to wonder if we'd stay on pace for a new CUSA trolling thread per week or so.
Got there on Monday this week.
Unless MTSU leaves, I don’t see any value in adding TSU. Even then there are better HBCU candidates.
There will be more moves once OU and UT actually make their move to the SEC. I could see a couple HBCUs making the move to FBS, and essentially to CUSA. MTSU and WKU will be the next two to leave CUSA, and when they do, CUSA will want to stay in Nashville and TNSt gives them that.
(02-28-2022 09:40 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote: [ -> ]Unless MTSU leaves, I don’t see any value in adding TSU. Even then there are better HBCU candidates.
I'm a TSU homer, admittedly, but what HBCU athletics program would be better suited for C-USA?
TSU is NOT (realistically) headed to C-USA, but a trio of TSU, Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee would offer a good bit of synergy.
Also worth noting: TSU is not a conventional HBCU for two reasons:
1. Its Nashville location, which spurs, more so than otherwise, a good number of non-Black students, administrators and faculty. Many of you might not realize that Tennessee State offers a very large classroom and faculty building located in downtown Nashville. I once taught (part-time) in the building.
2. Its membership within a non-HBCU league (the OVC).
Again, I would be highly surprised if TSU made an effort to elevate to DI-A and seek C-USA membership. But given the school is willing to consider adding a hockey program ... who knows?
(02-28-2022 09:21 AM)RamblinRedWolf Wrote: [ -> ]Call me a debbie downer, but I just don't see Tennessee State as an FBS potential program (the likes of NC A&T and to a lesser extent FAMU and Jackson State are ones I would imagine finding a way to make the jump to FBS).
Realism =\ Debbie Downer.
You could have said this for 90% of FCS callups over last 30 years.
(02-28-2022 09:40 AM)inutech Wrote: [ -> ]I was starting to wonder if we'd stay on pace for a new CUSA trolling thread per week or so.
Got there on Monday this week.
If the show fits...
But seriously, every FCS school is going to take a look at CUSA and say, "if they are adding that no value school, why not add ours? We offer nothing either."
(02-28-2022 10:01 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2022 09:40 AM)inutech Wrote: [ -> ]I was starting to wonder if we'd stay on pace for a new CUSA trolling thread per week or so.
Got there on Monday this week.
If the show fits...
But seriously, every FCS school is going to take a look at CUSA and say, "if they are adding that no value school, why not add ours? We offer nothing either."
The value (at the very least) of the schools we've already added was to save the existence of the conference.
After that what "no value" school have we added? I mean, we did go to 9 instead of the bare minimum 8 I guess.
(02-28-2022 09:53 AM)bill dazzle Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2022 09:40 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote: [ -> ]Unless MTSU leaves, I don’t see any value in adding TSU. Even then there are better HBCU candidates.
I'm a TSU homer, admittedly, but what HBCU athletics program would be better suited for C-USA?
TSU is NOT (realistically) headed to C-USA, but a trio of TSU, Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee would offer a good bit of synergy.
Also worth noting: TSU is not a conventional HBCU for two reasons:
1. Its Nashville location, which spurs, more so than otherwise, a good number of non-Black students, administrators and faculty. Many of you might not realize that Tennessee State offers a very large classroom and faculty building located in downtown Nashville. I once taught (part-time) in the building.
2. Its having been a member of a non-HBCU league (the OVC).
Again, I would be highly surprised if TSU made an effort to elevate to DI-A and seek C-USA membership. But given the school is willing to consider adding a hockey program ... who knows?
Tennessee St.'s athletic budget was 11.7 million. 7 million of that came from institutional support and 2.65 million from student fees. They simply are not capable of moving up. They have only 6,000 undergrads.
Jackson St. really isn't a much better position except that they do have Jackson to themselves. They have a $10.5 million budget with 4,700 students. Only $1.5 million comes from institutional support and $2.44 million from student fees.
Looking at that, I don't think any HBCU can afford to move up. Of course, Jacksonville St. shouldn't have moved up either, but they were already spending $18.4 million.
There are only 5 FBS schools with budgets between $20 and $25 million and only ULM is below $20 million. Everyone else is $25 million or higher and all but 19 of them above $30 million.
The HBCUs are really barely Division I level (many of them aren't). The SWAC only has 2 teams with a winning record, Texas Southern at 14-11 and Southern at 15-12. The conference only has 20 wins outside the conference and 5 of those belong to Southern. Women's basketball is even worse as only Jackson St. has a winning record. They were 2-6 out of conference but are 15-0 inside.
Again, it's not a new week without a CUSA-trolling thread or two.
(02-28-2022 11:27 AM)bullet Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2022 09:53 AM)bill dazzle Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2022 09:40 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote: [ -> ]Unless MTSU leaves, I don’t see any value in adding TSU. Even then there are better HBCU candidates.
I'm a TSU homer, admittedly, but what HBCU athletics program would be better suited for C-USA?
TSU is NOT (realistically) headed to C-USA, but a trio of TSU, Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee would offer a good bit of synergy.
Also worth noting: TSU is not a conventional HBCU for two reasons:
1. Its Nashville location, which spurs, more so than otherwise, a good number of non-Black students, administrators and faculty. Many of you might not realize that Tennessee State offers a very large classroom and faculty building located in downtown Nashville. I once taught (part-time) in the building.
2. Its having been a member of a non-HBCU league (the OVC).
Again, I would be highly surprised if TSU made an effort to elevate to DI-A and seek C-USA membership. But given the school is willing to consider adding a hockey program ... who knows?
Tennessee St.'s athletic budget was 11.7 million. 7 million of that came from institutional support and 2.65 million from student fees. They simply are not capable of moving up. They have only 6,000 undergrads.
Jackson St. really isn't a much better position except that they do have Jackson to themselves. They have a $10.5 million budget with 4,700 students. Only $1.5 million comes from institutional support and $2.44 million from student fees.
Looking at that, I don't think any HBCU can afford to move up. Of course, Jacksonville St. shouldn't have moved up either, but they were already spending $18.4 million.
There are only 5 FBS schools with budgets between $20 and $25 million and only ULM is below $20 million. Everyone else is $25 million or higher and all but 19 of them above $30 million.
The HBCUs are really barely Division I level (many of them aren't). The SWAC only has 2 teams with a winning record, Texas Southern at 14-11 and Southern at 15-12. The conference only has 20 wins outside the conference and 5 of those belong to Southern. Women's basketball is even worse as only Jackson St. has a winning record. They were 2-6 out of conference but are 15-0 inside.
All good points and, in large part, why TSU will not attempt to elevate. It simply would be unable due to, among other factors, a lack of resources.
I supposed if TSU grad Oprah Winfrey said, "Here is $100 million" ...
Nashville would not be able to support two universities with FBS football. Would simply make no sense.
But of the HBCU's ... TSU might be among the three or so that are best suited for a move up.
It's a moot point.
I am just not seeing Tennessee State as a viable option for C-USA.
I cannot imagine Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee wanting a school literally in the middle of their 100 miles of hate coming into the league, especially a school that they do not consider to be an equal in athletics (not sure about other areas).
There's not as many options as I would like at this time (as a Sam Houston fan) for C-USA and not sure how much that will be changing in the short-term, but I do think C-USA can wait a few more months. You have two transitional schools already in 23-24 (Jax State & Sam Houston), you wouldn't want another to be in that 'class' so there's time to assess what the NCAA transformational task force comes up with, a chance to look at media rights situations, etc.
C-USA is at nine teams, makes sense to add one more to get you to 18 basketball league games without adding substantially more schools.
(02-28-2022 01:07 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: [ -> ]I am just not seeing Tennessee State as a viable option for C-USA.
I cannot imagine Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee wanting a school literally in the middle of their 100 miles of hate coming into the league, especially a school that they do not consider to be an equal in athletics (not sure about other areas).
There's not as many options as I would like at this time (as a Sam Houston fan) for C-USA and not sure how much that will be changing in the short-term, but I do think C-USA can wait a few more months. You have two transitional schools already in 23-24 (Jax State & Sam Houston), you wouldn't want another to be in that 'class' so there's time to assess what the NCAA transformational task force comes up with, a chance to look at media rights situations, etc.
C-USA is at nine teams, makes sense to add one more to get you to 18 basketball league games without adding substantially more schools.
Middle and Western definitely do not see TSU as an "athletics equal."
If, in some insanely crazy hypothetical, MTSU and TSU could merge — keeping both campuses and operating under the name Tennessee State University ... a 35,000-student university is born. But practical concerns, history/tradition and political push-back will prevent it from ever happening.
(02-28-2022 01:40 PM)bill dazzle Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2022 01:07 PM)TexasTerror Wrote: [ -> ]I am just not seeing Tennessee State as a viable option for C-USA.
I cannot imagine Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee wanting a school literally in the middle of their 100 miles of hate coming into the league, especially a school that they do not consider to be an equal in athletics (not sure about other areas).
There's not as many options as I would like at this time (as a Sam Houston fan) for C-USA and not sure how much that will be changing in the short-term, but I do think C-USA can wait a few more months. You have two transitional schools already in 23-24 (Jax State & Sam Houston), you wouldn't want another to be in that 'class' so there's time to assess what the NCAA transformational task force comes up with, a chance to look at media rights situations, etc.
C-USA is at nine teams, makes sense to add one more to get you to 18 basketball league games without adding substantially more schools.
Middle and Western definitely do not see TSU as an "athletics equal."
If, in some insanely crazy hypothetical, MTSU and TSU could merge — keeping both campuses and operating under the name Tennessee State University ... a 35,000-student university is born. But practical concerns, history/tradition and political push-back will prevent it from ever happening.
Interesting tidbit—my alma mater played both Middle Tenn St and Tenn St in Mufreesboro, TN for the Grantland Rice Bowl in the early 60’s. For many years, the fact that the games were played in the same stadium, against a school who wore blue that it was the same school, they had just changed the name and dropped the Middle.
Merging the 2 does make a lot of sense but will never happen like you said. If Tenn St were like WV St and no longer predominantly black it might be possible but I don’t believe that’s the case.
It’s too bad schools like Tenn St, Jackson St, NC A&T, FAMU, Grambling, and Southern lack the athletic budgets to be FBS. C-USA would definitely be the place to try to make it but I don’t think they can pull it off.
(02-28-2022 02:36 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]It’s too bad schools like Tenn St, Jackson St, NC A&T, FAMU, Grambling, and Southern lack the athletic budgets to be FBS. C-USA would definitely be the place to try to make it but I don’t think they can pull it off.
Actually most of those are in the SBC footprint and would be far better fits for the SBC. The lower half of the future SBC is barely FBS so they'd fit in quite well there. Geographically and culturally a great fit for the SBC. The rivalries would be intense.
(02-28-2022 02:53 PM)WKUApollo Wrote: [ -> ] (02-28-2022 02:36 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]It’s too bad schools like Tenn St, Jackson St, NC A&T, FAMU, Grambling, and Southern lack the athletic budgets to be FBS. C-USA would definitely be the place to try to make it but I don’t think they can pull it off.
Actually most of those are in the SBC footprint and would be far better fits for the SBC. The lower half of the future SBC is barely FBS so they'd fit in quite well there. Geographically and culturally a great fit for the SBC. The rivalries would be intense.
C-USA is barely a FBS conference then as well....