(02-13-2022 01:47 PM)58-56 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-13-2022 01:24 PM)rileylives Wrote: [ -> ] (02-13-2022 01:13 PM)ghostofclt! Wrote: [ -> ]clt says academics matter
Rice got the move not for it's academics, but for a Houston replacement.
Same for North Texas. That is a strategic move if/when SMU moves on.
FAU for UCF. UAB for Cincinnati.
UTSA for it's promise, Charlotte for potential.
I'm happy for all involved.
However, Marshall, ODU and Southern Miss end up in a GREAT spot with regional rivals.
clt is correct. The AAC selected all R1 research universities and the lone AAU member. University presidents make that call, and they and their faculty senates care very much about the institutions with which theirs associate.
Uncc is r2. They’ll prob be r1 within the decade though, the unc system has rightly concentrated a lot of resources into furthering their research.
It’s a dumb distinction when discussing our football and basketball programs.
Marshall was fine in CUSA. If it wasn’t for UNT leaving we would not be in this situation. UNT should have to cover all of our costs.
(02-13-2022 01:34 PM)Sideshow2313 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:48 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:36 PM)rileylives Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:33 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:17 PM)gdunn Wrote: [ -> ]No it’s not. You say that but it’s not. If the AAC said hey we have room if you can come you know full well you’d be hooping and hollering to go.
The leadership at UNT probably would, if they could secure an exit. I think the problem is that none of the SB3 secured an exit.
Me personally? I'd stay for at least one more season in C-USA. Like I said, I like C-USA West.
Hard to secure an exit when you keep talking to a brick wall. The CUSA office decided to sit on their hands.
No. C-USA's lawyers decided to sit on their hands. And, I have a feeling you three played into their hands.
NOT a Lawyer but I deal with Contracts but am a CPA which had to pass the business law section.
I think SBC3 hastily left and any $ from SBC for an extra year will be handed over to CUSA.
SBC3 broke the contract. Now CUSA can tally up the damages of reorganizing their schedule. CUSA will sue for exit fees plus damages.
I am sure SBC3 will not pay all damages though. It will be alot more than SBC3 thought. The damages will be more than exit fees. Damages are where the big $ is and why lawyers ambulance chase.
As has been reported, the bylaws are ambiguous regarding financial penalties to withdraw early, but they don’t forbid it. Ambiguous bylaws mean interpretation by arbitrators. I seriously doubt the SBC3 are shooting from the hip here, I’m less certain about Cusa. All 3 have a legal department and I assume they hired a firm in Texas that specializes in contract disputes to tell them how Texas law would interpret their bylaws.
I think Cusa might actually be shooting from the hip because the action to not engage in negotiations doesn’t make sense.
I know my opinions mean little but I feel like after all the years USM has been in this conference and all the teams they’ve seen pass them by out the door they deserve to leave whenever they feel like it. I could say the same for UAB as well. They’ve both earned it.
(02-13-2022 02:29 PM)Sideshow2313 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-13-2022 02:19 PM)banker Wrote: [ -> ] (02-13-2022 01:34 PM)Sideshow2313 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:48 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:36 PM)rileylives Wrote: [ -> ]Hard to secure an exit when you keep talking to a brick wall. The CUSA office decided to sit on their hands.
No. C-USA's lawyers decided to sit on their hands. And, I have a feeling you three played into their hands.
NOT a Lawyer but I deal with Contracts but am a CPA which had to pass the business law section.
I think SBC3 hastily left and any $ from SBC for an extra year will be handed over to CUSA.
SBC3 broke the contract. Now CUSA can tally up the damages of reorganizing their schedule. CUSA will sue for exit fees plus damages.
I am sure SBC3 will not pay all damages though. It will be alot more than SBC3 thought. The damages will be more than exit fees. Damages are where the big $ is and why lawyers ambulance chase.
Since you are playing lawyer, what do you see as a potential basis for damages and did the unwillingness of CUSA to negotiate an early exit enhance or reduce the potential amount?
The TV revenue is the same. Negotiations could have helped with scheduling issues. We aren’t getting any of the NCAA credit revenue. Based on the comments here, losing these three programs doesn’t hurt the reputation of CUSA. So what is the source of potential damages to claim?
"Damages for breach of contract may be given, for example, for the non-performance of a written or verbal agreement, or of a covenant to do or not to do a particular thing.
As to the measure of damages, the general rule is that the delinquent shall answer for all the injury which results from the immediate and direct breach of his agreement"
SBC breached the performance of a written contract so any financial impact to correct is viewed as damages. So CUSA 'extra' costs to move games, cancel hotel reservations, canceling of catering etc will be footed by SBC3.
Yeah there won’t be any costs related to anything you’ve outlined there.
(02-12-2022 06:45 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:35 PM)rileylives Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:25 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:16 PM)theATLDawg Wrote: [ -> ]I would be shocked if this didn’t come at a cost. CUSA will win the lawsuit. But it will be a monetary win. No one will force the SunBelt three to stay.
I totally agree. But, the monetary cost could be much higher those three anticipate. This case could spend years in the Texas court system. Lets face it. Those three won't be making that much more in the Sun Belt.
I actually don't think we will. CUSA has never collected buyouts for schools departing, and there is no written financial penalty for leaving before the 14 month mark.
Consider Marshall, ODU and Southern Miss tried and tried to communicate their intentions to the CUSA office with no response, the burden in my opinion lies with CUSA. Since they did not respond, we had to do what would be best for all involved.
Has C-USA ever had a collection of programs bolt before the 14 month period was over?
What you three are doing isn't what is best for the 11 C-USA programs that will play in 2022.
Regardless of how it plays out in the courts, it will still be playing out in the courts. Lawyers aren't cheap, and cases take years to work their way through the legal system. That is money Marshall, Southern Miss, & ODU won't be spending on athletics.
If Judy wouldn't respond to y'alls inquiries, it's because C-USA's lawyers told her to ignore you.
If I remember correctly, Louisville tried to leave a year earlier because the Big East needed an 8th school for the 2004 season. Miami and Virginia Tech announced they were leaving for the ACC on 6/30/2004, UConn just moved up to FBS, Temple was about to get booted from the conference and Boston College was about to play a lame duck season in the Big East.
Even under those circumstances, Louisville had to wait another year to join the Big East along with Cincinnati and South Florida. Yes, Louisville followed the bylaws even though they were leaving for the promised land for more money, prestige, a shot to the BCS title game and the best basketball conference ever with its tournament in Madison Garden. The same can’t be said about the Sun Belt schools.
(02-13-2022 12:49 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: [ -> ] (02-13-2022 12:39 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe they can understand what a contractual notice obligation is, and also that the alternative that *everybody* agreed to was equitable relief.
It seems that the SB3 don’t seem to give a whit about the above.
I'll tell you the same thing I said to JoeBlows. Rice and their horrible athletics would have left CUSA day before yesterday if they could. BUT THEY CAN'T.
If Texas and Oklahoma wanted to pay the B12 80-95 million dollars to leave early then the AAC 6 would be beating down the door to leave CUSA just as fast. If you tell yourself otherwise then you are just a pathetic liar is all.
I like the ‘if they could’ addition above. Seems to be right on point. The bylaws call expressly for a notice period, and equitable relief if that notice period is not to be. So you are actually correct —- legally they ‘can’t’.
Something that the SB3 thinks doesn’t apply to them, actually scratch that —- I am positive they have been told b6 their lawyers. Their choice, as opposed to actually giving respect to the legal issues, is to stamp their feet furiously and cry about how the meanies who actually respect the legal issues are being mean and horrible to them and crying up a storm.
You know, the university level of your post this is in response to.
(02-12-2022 05:47 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ]This isn't smack, so I hope it doesn't get forced over to the smack board.
It's not that I care that they are leaving. I know I won't miss them. None of those three move the needle for Texas programs. I just don't like their timing. By hitting the door early, they are leaving all of their current conference-mates in the lurch, by creating scheduling issues across all C-USA sports, and placing additional strain on C-USA as it is trying to right the ship.
Remember how ODU abandoned their football season back in 2020? Now multiple that by 3 and expand that out across all the sports in C-USA. If C-USA has to play with 11 programs, we may end up playing football (and other sports) without divisions for the 2022 season.
It’s not like the conference hasn’t known since December that this was being planned, and therefore had two months to come up with a contingency plan. The conference just didn’t bother to have a backup plan. That is not the three departing schools’ fault
(02-13-2022 03:47 PM)MUther Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:32 PM)rileylives Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:09 PM)Ragu Wrote: [ -> ]I don't care that they are leaving. The announcement posts are a little much especially for future cusa members. They should put them on the sun belt board if they don't watch any pushback. I'll only miss Marshall
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
We liked FAU too. Will miss playing y'all and Western.
Speak for yourself
I’ll miss FAU. They will bust our balls about their two rings, and we will bust theirs about their .111% against us and our bowl wins. I have enjoyed the banter back and forth, but in the end, I think most of us respect one another. Fans are down to earth and knowledgeable about their athletics and sports in general.
I wish you all good luck as you move to the AAC.
(02-12-2022 11:27 PM)Monarch Pride Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 11:18 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 11:07 PM)Monarch Pride Wrote: [ -> ]Just stop slow joe. SMU owns you and Dallas and I know that is hard to accept. But it is what it is.
Oh okay... They'll probably keep us out of the AAC too. 
But this thread isn't about UNT, SMU, or the Dallas market. It's about the SB3 breaking the by-laws of C-USA. We'll see how it all plays out.
Slow joe, we have examined the terms of the by-laws. Don’t be sour because the by-laws were written by half-wits. It’s in line with Judy’s leadership.
No sour grapes. Just pointing out that the SB3 are breaking the by-laws, and that is probably going to end up in the Texas courts. We all know Judy is incompetent, but that won't help you as this works through the legal system. Also, name calling is never a good look for an educated man, and should be beneath you.
(02-13-2022 12:33 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 07:27 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:52 PM)rileylives Wrote: [ -> ]Joe, look, we are friends here. I think if you were in our shoes, you would absolutely defend your university here.
We are actually doing the 2022 CUSA programs a solid by stating over and over again our intentions.
Now, if UNT was moving back to the Sun Belt, I would be furious. I wouldn't have time to be on this board. I'd be too busy undermining our leadership at UNT. I never want UNT back in the Belt. And, the sad thing is that the Sun Belt wanted us to come back.
When?
Is there a link to this?
I could see WKU's athletic programs being wanted, but not UNT.
You should speak with Gill.
(02-13-2022 12:10 PM)rileylives Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry, I had to make one other comment. The Sun Belt now is FAR different than the Sun Belt you left Joe.
Besides, I'm not totally convinced the Sun Belt would want North Texas anyway going forward. That is not intended to be a dig, but a fact.
I think the AAC model is a house of cards, especially without Houston, Cincinnati and UCF. Building with programs like Marshall and Southern Miss, football first schools mixed in with a little of markets in ODU, and an up and coming JMU is wise...rather than going all-in on markets that struggle to build out a fanbase.
Also, I think the Sun Belt wants to built out the south east more. The footprint is logical, and has a stable base going forward.
In football, the Sun Belt is a better than it was in 2013. App State and Coastal have really helped the SB improve rapidly.
But,the AAC's model should work fine. ESPN's money and exposure is locked in through around 2032, ensuring the AAC6 will have the right environment to grow into their potential over the next decade. Many like to point to the AAC6 as market additions, but these programs also represent most of the larger athletic budgets in C-USA. I believe Aresco knows what he is doing.
(02-13-2022 04:02 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-13-2022 12:33 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 07:27 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 06:52 PM)rileylives Wrote: [ -> ]Joe, look, we are friends here. I think if you were in our shoes, you would absolutely defend your university here.
We are actually doing the 2022 CUSA programs a solid by stating over and over again our intentions.
Now, if UNT was moving back to the Sun Belt, I would be furious. I wouldn't have time to be on this board. I'd be too busy undermining our leadership at UNT. I never want UNT back in the Belt. And, the sad thing is that the Sun Belt wanted us to come back.
When?
Is there a link to this?
I could see WKU's athletic programs being wanted, but not UNT.
You should speak with Gill.
Care to provide a link or source?
(02-13-2022 12:49 PM)HerdZoned Wrote: [ -> ] (02-13-2022 12:39 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe they can understand what a contractual notice obligation is, and also that the alternative that *everybody* agreed to was equitable relief.
It seems that the SB3 don’t seem to give a whit about the above.
I'll tell you the same thing I said to JoeBlows. Rice and their horrible athletics would have left CUSA day before yesterday if they could. BUT THEY CAN'T.
If Texas and Oklahoma wanted to pay the B12 80-95 million dollars to leave early then the AAC 6 would be beating down the door to leave CUSA just as fast. If you tell yourself otherwise then you are just a pathetic liar is all.
Technically, the SB3 can't either, but that doesn't seem to be stopping y'all.
(02-13-2022 02:30 PM)banker Wrote: [ -> ]Marshall was fine in CUSA. If it wasn’t for UNT leaving we would not be in this situation. UNT should have to cover all of our costs.
Sounds reasonable. We will pay for your exit fees starting July 1, 2023. Any exit fees you incur by leaving before that are early exit penalties that Marshall and the Sun Belt will have to cover
(02-13-2022 01:00 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 07:49 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 07:39 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 07:19 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 07:05 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote: [ -> ]The sbc3 have secured just as much of an exit as the acc 6
Nope. None of the AAC 6 are leaving before the 14 month period is up.
It you gave notice before we did.
2 questions
Will Judy do the same thing in a year? Assuming you would be ok
Where did you earn your JD?
UNT gave notice on October 21, 2021. And we will be leaving after the 2023 season. We are following the by-laws.
Nobody is questioning your affinity for CUSA west. My point is that you are following the rules because you HAVE to. You are trading UTEP for SMU and USM for Tulane. Ideal for you in both circumstances.
If the AAC had room and encouraged you to leave early,’ all of you would be gone. To say otherwise is pure crap.
UNT would probably try to leave early if the AAC told us we could join now. But, we would not be able to leave unless we negotiated the exit through C-USA first. If we left without agreeing on terms, we'd be in the same position the SB3 are right now.
(02-12-2022 06:11 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 05:57 PM)gdunn Wrote: [ -> ]If UNT could head over to the AAC next season would you feel the same?
Ha! I actually made a joke about doing that over on the AAC board.
The ability to play a season in the AAC against Houston, Cincinnati, & UCF is a different situation from you three joining a SB that isn't losing anyone. But even so, I wouldn't want to bring further pain to our C-USA, so I'm going to try and enjoy what time we have left. I always liked C-USA West.
(02-13-2022 01:52 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-13-2022 01:00 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 07:49 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 07:39 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022 07:19 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote: [ -> ]Nope. None of the AAC 6 are leaving before the 14 month period is up.
It you gave notice before we did.
2 questions
Will Judy do the same thing in a year? Assuming you would be ok
Where did you earn your JD?
UNT gave notice on October 21, 2021. And we will be leaving after the 2023 season. We are following the by-laws.
Nobody is questioning your affinity for CUSA west. My point is that you are following the rules because you HAVE to. You are trading UTEP for SMU and USM for Tulane. Ideal for you in both circumstances.
If the AAC had room and encouraged you to leave early,’ all of you would be gone. To say otherwise is pure crap.
Yup, Joe says peace out
https://csnbbs.com/thread-942068-post-18...id18067035
Yup. I sure did. Go read post #5 from the first page of this thread.
(02-13-2022 02:30 PM)banker Wrote: [ -> ]Marshall was fine in CUSA. If it wasn’t for UNT leaving we would not be in this situation. UNT should have to cover all of our costs.
Ha! That's funny. Points for you.