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(01-07-2022 11:49 AM)bearcatfan Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-07-2022 11:44 AM)bcat1997 Wrote: [ -> ]Ado had a good game last night and provides much needed basket defense, but man he is a liability on the offense.

UC is getting little to nothing out of the big men on offense.

Koval didn't play much last night but when he comes in he thinks he's a guard and rarely gets beyond the 3 point arc.

Oguama does not look comfortable on offense at all. Lakhin did score 7 but I think he could do more (and I think he will).

Yeah, Lakhin and Ody should both eventually be better than Ado (hopefully by next year when they will likely be our starting and backup center combo). But right now they need significant improvement on both the offensive and defensive end. Neither is clearly superior to Ado on offense and both are quite deficient to him on defense.

Ado isn't great, but he is good enough when playing well to be a starter on an NCAA tournament caliper team. His defense is excellent and he's very good on the boards on both ends. The big issue is lack of consistency, it's about 50/50 if he plays well and when he plays poorly it's quite bad. His lack of consistency doesn't appear to be based on competition level, but on effort level, so hopefully Wes can find a way to get the effort out of him every game.
This team's path and fortunes are very simple. DDJ, JD and MAW all play a lot of minutes, and with the lack of inside scoring they have to shoot the ball well. You look at the 4 losses and I think they're like 14/78 from 3 which in large part is where they are going to live and die. Can they get more bench points, sure, can they get a little more inside production, maybe. The problem is the more you try to push the ball inside those guys typically get fouled, and are not good/consistent ft shooters. You can't shoot the ball much worse than they did the first half against Tulane, but last night obviously a big improvement. The rotation, et. al gets kicked around a lot, but those 3 guys are going to and have played significant minutes. They have to hit shots until more offensive weapons arrive.
(01-07-2022 11:48 AM)geef Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2022 02:32 PM)doss2 Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-06-2022 01:23 PM)BearcatDave Wrote: [ -> ]I love UC basketball but am out of the loop on players the last few years. Just haven't had the time. Should i just tune in next year?

Wait 4 years as the new coach will be hired after year 3 of Wes.

(01-07-2022 10:16 AM)CincyBro Wrote: [ -> ]I'm still waiting to hear from the members who were so insistent on Sat. that Wes Miller can't coach and should be let go.....where are these members now, I would like to know how they feel....04-cheers

I don't recall anyone who fits this description.

Facetious.....+2.....04-cheers
Doss just has a thing for taller guys. Not that there is anything wrong with that...
(01-07-2022 12:52 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]Doss just has a thing for taller guys. Not that there is anything wrong with that...

Height supremacist
(01-07-2022 12:33 PM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, Lakhin and Ody should both eventually be better than Ado (hopefully by next year when they will likely be our starting and backup center combo). But right now they need significant improvement on both the offensive and defensive end. Neither is clearly superior to Ado on offense and both are quite deficient to him on defense.

Ado isn't great, but he is good enough when playing well to be a starter on an NCAA tournament caliper team. His defense is excellent and he's very good on the boards on both ends. The big issue is lack of consistency, it's about 50/50 if he plays well and when he plays poorly it's quite bad. His lack of consistency doesn't appear to be based on competition level, but on effort level, so hopefully Wes can find a way to get the effort out of him every game.

Through 15 games:

Ado 15.7 MPG
Oguama 14.7 MPG
Lakhin 14.1 MPG
Koval 12.3 MPG

Offense

Lakhin 6.6 PPG
Oguama 5.2 PPG
Koval 3.1 PPG
Ado 3.0 PPG

Ado 59.4 FG%
Lakhin 56.9 FG%
Oguama 55.1 FG%
Koval 42.5 FG%

Oguama 32 FTA/75 FT%
Lakhin 25 FTA/52 FT%
Ado 17 FTA/41.2 FT%
Koval 12 FTA/58.3%

Defense

Ado 76 TREB [33 OREB/43 DREB/5.1 RPG]
Oguama 74 TREB [30 OREB/44 DREB/4.9 RPG]
Lakhin 68 TREB [26 OREB/42 DREB/4.9 RPG]
Koval 49 TREB [14 OREB/35 DREB/3.3 RPG]

Ado 22 BLK [1.5 BPG]
Koval 13 BLK [0.9 BPG]
Lakhin 7 BLK [0.5 BPG]
Oguama 5 BLK [0.3 BPG]
^^^^
Based strictly on the numbers, Oguama makes the most of his minutes on both sides of the ball. He takes advantage of being fouled the most too - shooting 75% from the charity stripe. We know how huge that has been historically in games.

Ado is probably viewed as more of a defensive presence as Lakhin is on offense. That said, there isn't a great separation between these three. Koval is the odd man out overall.


(01-07-2022 01:16 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote: [ -> ]^^^^
Based strictly on the numbers, Oguama makes the most of his minutes on both sides of the ball. He takes advantage of being fouled the most too - shooting 75% from the charity stripe. We know how huge that has been historically in games.

Ado is probably viewed as more of a defensive presence as Lakhin is on offense. That said, there isn't a great separation between these three. Koval is the odd man out overall.

Stats only mean so much, they don't show a lot that happens in the game. This is more so true with looking just rebounds and BLK's to determine defense. https://evanmiya.com/ has the best breakdown that I've seen for players, at least for free sites (I know there are some really good paid services). By pretty much all measures on there, Ado is far superior to Ody (and Lakhin/Koval) on the defensive end and the second best defensive player on the team (with Newman being the best).

Defensive Bayesian Performance Rating: Ado 22.7, Lakhin 15.1, Koval 13.8, Ody 6.7.

Team Def Eff: Ado 81.9, Koval 83.8, Lakhin 87.2, Ody 91.5.

On/Off defensive splits: Ado 4.7, Koval 3.4, Lakhin -4, Ody -8.9.

To be fair to Ody, he consistently tops the advanced metrics as our best offensive big man (with Ado, Lakhin or Koval being 2nd depending on the measure). That combined with the fact that Lakhin isn't much better on the defensive end justifies him as the first backup off the bench. But the advanced metrics do show what many people see, Ody is quite bad defensive. He's young and it's fixable (same as with Lakhin), but it will take time to fix.

Even these stats only mean so much, especially since Ody/Lakhin sometimes play the 4 as well as the 5. Of course the coach has the best idea of who's doing what the game plan calls for. There is also situational reason to play certain players, such as Ody being better at guarding smaller quick guys (or at the 4).

In my mind I'd rank our bigs as: 1. Ado (pretty clearly), 2. Ody, 3. Lakhin, 4. Koval. Lakhin will eventually be the best of the 4, but he has quite a ways to go.
I'm not sure we're in disagreement. I said Ado was used by the staff as the defensive presence of the group but Oguama can play both ends of the floor the best overall IMO. How can you not look at his ability to get fouled and make free throws? Again, we're probably splitting hairs between the three bigs outside of Koval.
Looking at the kenpom projections for UC the rest of the way there are onyl 2 games where UC is favored by double digits (home ECU by 10, home USF 14). There are no games where UC is a double digit underdog. So 13 of the games are projected with 8 points one way or the other, including including 9 at 6 or less and 6 at 3 or less. This season could go a lot of different ways in the next 2 months.
FWIW, UC jumped 17 spots in the NET (75 to 58) with the win last night. Big jump for January. Especially since SMU was only a few spots ahead of us.
(01-07-2022 05:51 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote: [ -> ]FWIW, UC jumped 17 spots in the NET (75 to 58) with the win last night. Big jump for January. Especially since SMU was only a few spots ahead of us.

They of course fell further in their loss to Tulane than they jumped from this win. But nice to win by enough that they got a little back.
(01-07-2022 12:33 PM)skyblade Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-07-2022 11:49 AM)bearcatfan Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-07-2022 11:44 AM)bcat1997 Wrote: [ -> ]Ado had a good game last night and provides much needed basket defense, but man he is a liability on the offense.

UC is getting little to nothing out of the big men on offense.

Koval didn't play much last night but when he comes in he thinks he's a guard and rarely gets beyond the 3 point arc.

Oguama does not look comfortable on offense at all. Lakhin did score 7 but I think he could do more (and I think he will).

Yeah, Lakhin and Ody should both eventually be better than Ado (hopefully by next year when they will likely be our starting and backup center combo). But right now they need significant improvement on both the offensive and defensive end. Neither is clearly superior to Ado on offense and both are quite deficient to him on defense.

Ado isn't great, but he is good enough when playing well to be a starter on an NCAA tournament caliper team. His defense is excellent and he's very good on the boards on both ends. The big issue is lack of consistency, it's about 50/50 if he plays well and when he plays poorly it's quite bad. His lack of consistency doesn't appear to be based on competition level, but on effort level, so hopefully Wes can find a way to get the effort out of him every game.


I always thought the same way about Nsoseme on offense but when he transferred last year to Georgia State University he been averaging double figures per game on pts and pretty good on rebounding. Amazing the difference between lower side of division i to the smaller schools. Ado will probably be praised before his career finishes at UC.
Lahkin has potential just because of how big he is and how well he moves, and his hands are definitely not bricks. But he does not see the floor, he spins into the double team. Watch the Dad bod god, and when he catches in the post he holds the ball a sec to read the entire floor, then makes a decision as he moves. That's probably not where Victor will ever be, but he could at least make a note of where the opposing bigs are before turning towards a shoulder.
(01-08-2022 11:38 AM)glacier_dropsy Wrote: [ -> ]Lahkin has potential just because of how big he is and how well he moves, and his hands are definitely not bricks. But he does not see the floor, he spins into the double team. Watch the Dad bod god, and when he catches in the post he holds the ball a sec to read the entire floor, then makes a decision as he moves. That's probably not where Victor will ever be, but he could at least make a note of where the opposing bigs are before turning towards a shoulder.

I think not playing all last year is probably part of that. He's really still feeling it the college game and the American game to a large extent. To me that's the kind of thing that can improve with reps
I'm not selling, just making comments on where I think his game is at.
(01-08-2022 11:40 AM)bearcatmark Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-08-2022 11:38 AM)glacier_dropsy Wrote: [ -> ]Lahkin has potential just because of how big he is and how well he moves, and his hands are definitely not bricks. But he does not see the floor, he spins into the double team. Watch the Dad bod god, and when he catches in the post he holds the ball a sec to read the entire floor, then makes a decision as he moves. That's probably not where Victor will ever be, but he could at least make a note of where the opposing bigs are before turning towards a shoulder.

I think not playing all last year is probably part of that. He's really still feeling it the college game and the American game to a large extent. To me that's the kind of thing that can improve with reps

Yep, I think he still has a high upside. He demonstrates a soft shooting touch and fills a lot of space. Big men just take time to develop. Hopefully we have someone on the coaching staff who has the time and skills to help him develop. He could become very special.
(01-08-2022 12:02 PM)glacier_dropsy Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not selling, just making comments on where I think his game is at.

I agree with you. Just elaborating.
(01-08-2022 11:38 AM)glacier_dropsy Wrote: [ -> ]Lahkin has potential just because of how big he is and how well he moves, and his hands are definitely not bricks. But he does not see the floor, he spins into the double team. Watch the Dad bod god, and when he catches in the post he holds the ball a sec to read the entire floor, then makes a decision as he moves. That's probably not where Victor will ever be, but he could at least make a note of where the opposing bigs are before turning towards a shoulder.

Jokic?
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