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Full Version: Zootown Classic @ Missoula, MT - GAMES 5/6/7
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(11-25-2021 08:12 AM)82hawk Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 01:09 AM)Water Boy Wrote: [ -> ]Some impressions from Missoula:
They had to feel like it was last year at the beginning of the game. There couldn't have been more than 25 or 30 people in the stands at tipoff.

UNCW looked lost against the Southern Miss zone. Especially in the first half, it seemed like they were just forcing up shots at the end of the shot clock.

Harvey looked good. He was the one who really sparked the comeback on both ends. White looked good.

Phillips didn't look himself even when he was in. I was wondering what happened to him - it makes sense that he was sick.

Okaru and Fornes were just ice cold from three - they make a few and Bolden (a lot of his threes were wide open though) misses a few it could have been a different game.

They really need to play fast and press to succeed - the half court offense looked rough. Perhaps a healthy Phillips would help some. Montana likes a slow pace, I think UNCW will struggle tomorrow if they can't force the pace.

Okauru and Fornes are always ice cold from three, no surprise. So the key is to have other players lead your offense. Fornes should play a back up role and Okauru needs to stick to driving to the basket with maybe two attempts from three per game. Fornes needs to pass the ball and let others shoot. He's just not good on offense, turns the ball over and fouls a lot.
This is how Fornes played his first time at UNCW so it should not come as a surprise to anyone and he got benched . I checked some of these guys shooting percentages in HS and they are performing at abut the same rate-not to say they can't improve but it also should not surprise anyone when they miss shots . Totally not buying the sickness exceuse at all,if they can play -can't be that sick . Why is Thomas not playing at all ? Can't see him staying around if that doesn't change and quick . The transfer rule puts extra pressure on coaches to play guys or they can leave and play right now .
It’s pretty obvious that Thomas was also sick.

I’ve also attached Fornes college stats to give actual data and not speculation. This data suggests that he should shoot the 3. And, it is definitely a bigger sample size than a few games.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...nes-1.html
(11-25-2021 10:48 AM)billthebighawksfan Wrote: [ -> ]It’s pretty obvious that Thomas was also sick.

I’ve also attached Fornes college stats to give actual data and not speculation. This data suggests that he should shoot the 3. And, it is definitely a bigger sample size than a few games.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...nes-1.html

That's good stuff and it is interesting that his last year here was by the worst shooting year of his career. That does not take into account when he takes a bad shot in a game at a critical point and I think that is what gets him trouble -his decision making/feel has never been very good. You would think with an older player he would be better in regards to that.
Thomas has been getting about 5 minutes a game in the games he has played in-that is pretty much nothing .
(11-25-2021 10:25 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 08:12 AM)82hawk Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 01:09 AM)Water Boy Wrote: [ -> ]Some impressions from Missoula:
They had to feel like it was last year at the beginning of the game. There couldn't have been more than 25 or 30 people in the stands at tipoff.

UNCW looked lost against the Southern Miss zone. Especially in the first half, it seemed like they were just forcing up shots at the end of the shot clock.

Harvey looked good. He was the one who really sparked the comeback on both ends. White looked good.

Phillips didn't look himself even when he was in. I was wondering what happened to him - it makes sense that he was sick.

Okaru and Fornes were just ice cold from three - they make a few and Bolden (a lot of his threes were wide open though) misses a few it could have been a different game.

They really need to play fast and press to succeed - the half court offense looked rough. Perhaps a healthy Phillips would help some. Montana likes a slow pace, I think UNCW will struggle tomorrow if they can't force the pace.

Okauru and Fornes are always ice cold from three, no surprise. So the key is to have other players lead your offense. Fornes should play a back up role and Okauru needs to stick to driving to the basket with maybe two attempts from three per game. Fornes needs to pass the ball and let others shoot. He's just not good on offense, turns the ball over and fouls a lot.
This is how Fornes played his first time at UNCW so it should not come as a surprise to anyone and he got benched . I checked some of these guys shooting percentages in HS and they are performing at abut the same rate-not to say they can't improve but it also should not surprise anyone when they miss shots . Totally not buying the sickness exceuse at all,if they can play -can't be that sick . Why is Thomas not playing at all ? Can't see him staying around if that doesn't change and quick . The transfer rule puts extra pressure on coaches to play guys or they can leave and play right now .

So you don't believe the kids are sick?
(11-25-2021 12:38 PM)GrayHawk Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 10:25 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 08:12 AM)82hawk Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 01:09 AM)Water Boy Wrote: [ -> ]Some impressions from Missoula:
They had to feel like it was last year at the beginning of the game. There couldn't have been more than 25 or 30 people in the stands at tipoff.

UNCW looked lost against the Southern Miss zone. Especially in the first half, it seemed like they were just forcing up shots at the end of the shot clock.

Harvey looked good. He was the one who really sparked the comeback on both ends. White looked good.

Phillips didn't look himself even when he was in. I was wondering what happened to him - it makes sense that he was sick.

Okaru and Fornes were just ice cold from three - they make a few and Bolden (a lot of his threes were wide open though) misses a few it could have been a different game.

They really need to play fast and press to succeed - the half court offense looked rough. Perhaps a healthy Phillips would help some. Montana likes a slow pace, I think UNCW will struggle tomorrow if they can't force the pace.

Okauru and Fornes are always ice cold from three, no surprise. So the key is to have other players lead your offense. Fornes should play a back up role and Okauru needs to stick to driving to the basket with maybe two attempts from three per game. Fornes needs to pass the ball and let others shoot. He's just not good on offense, turns the ball over and fouls a lot.
This is how Fornes played his first time at UNCW so it should not come as a surprise to anyone and he got benched . I checked some of these guys shooting percentages in HS and they are performing at abut the same rate-not to say they can't improve but it also should not surprise anyone when they miss shots . Totally not buying the sickness exceuse at all,if they can play -can't be that sick . Why is Thomas not playing at all ? Can't see him staying around if that doesn't change and quick . The transfer rule puts extra pressure on coaches to play guys or they can leave and play right now .

So you don't believe the kids are sick?

I obviously have no way of knowing that but if they are able to basketball at all they can't be that sick . Kind of like the Jordan flu game which has always been suspect and turns out it was bad pizza-maybe . Hopefully they can play through it and compete in the next 2 games . It's nice to be young IF you have to be sick because they recover so well compared to the rest of us !
(11-25-2021 11:43 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 10:48 AM)billthebighawksfan Wrote: [ -> ]It’s pretty obvious that Thomas was also sick.

I’ve also attached Fornes college stats to give actual data and not speculation. This data suggests that he should shoot the 3. And, it is definitely a bigger sample size than a few games.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...nes-1.html

That's good stuff and it is interesting that his last year here was by the worst shooting year of his career. That does not take into account when he takes a bad shot in a game at a critical point and I think that is what gets him trouble -his decision making/feel has never been very good. You would think with an older player he would be better in regards to that.
Thomas has been getting about 5 minutes a game in the games he has played in-that is pretty much nothing .


The problem with Fornes is he wants to play hero ball. It’s especially problematic when he can’t hit the broad side of a barn.

He needs to see the bench. A lot.


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(11-25-2021 12:38 PM)GrayHawk Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 10:25 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 08:12 AM)82hawk Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 01:09 AM)Water Boy Wrote: [ -> ]Some impressions from Missoula:
They had to feel like it was last year at the beginning of the game. There couldn't have been more than 25 or 30 people in the stands at tipoff.

UNCW looked lost against the Southern Miss zone. Especially in the first half, it seemed like they were just forcing up shots at the end of the shot clock.

Harvey looked good. He was the one who really sparked the comeback on both ends. White looked good.

Phillips didn't look himself even when he was in. I was wondering what happened to him - it makes sense that he was sick.

Okaru and Fornes were just ice cold from three - they make a few and Bolden (a lot of his threes were wide open though) misses a few it could have been a different game.

They really need to play fast and press to succeed - the half court offense looked rough. Perhaps a healthy Phillips would help some. Montana likes a slow pace, I think UNCW will struggle tomorrow if they can't force the pace.

Okauru and Fornes are always ice cold from three, no surprise. So the key is to have other players lead your offense. Fornes should play a back up role and Okauru needs to stick to driving to the basket with maybe two attempts from three per game. Fornes needs to pass the ball and let others shoot. He's just not good on offense, turns the ball over and fouls a lot.
This is how Fornes played his first time at UNCW so it should not come as a surprise to anyone and he got benched . I checked some of these guys shooting percentages in HS and they are performing at abut the same rate-not to say they can't improve but it also should not surprise anyone when they miss shots . Totally not buying the sickness exceuse at all,if they can play -can't be that sick . Why is Thomas not playing at all ? Can't see him staying around if that doesn't change and quick . The transfer rule puts extra pressure on coaches to play guys or they can leave and play right now .

So you don't believe the kids are sick?


It’s not that we don’t believe they’re sick. It’s just a STUPID excuse when you look at the game stats.

So, not sick enough to out rebound the other team. Not sick enough to have more possessions (15+ I believe).

But clearly too sick to make shots.

See the logic flaw there? Maybe they’ve been sick all season and that’s why our offense looks like a HS JV squad?


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(11-25-2021 02:28 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 12:38 PM)GrayHawk Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 10:25 AM)jumpinmullet Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 08:12 AM)82hawk Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-25-2021 01:09 AM)Water Boy Wrote: [ -> ]Some impressions from Missoula:
They had to feel like it was last year at the beginning of the game. There couldn't have been more than 25 or 30 people in the stands at tipoff.

UNCW looked lost against the Southern Miss zone. Especially in the first half, it seemed like they were just forcing up shots at the end of the shot clock.

Harvey looked good. He was the one who really sparked the comeback on both ends. White looked good.

Phillips didn't look himself even when he was in. I was wondering what happened to him - it makes sense that he was sick.

Okaru and Fornes were just ice cold from three - they make a few and Bolden (a lot of his threes were wide open though) misses a few it could have been a different game.

They really need to play fast and press to succeed - the half court offense looked rough. Perhaps a healthy Phillips would help some. Montana likes a slow pace, I think UNCW will struggle tomorrow if they can't force the pace.

Okauru and Fornes are always ice cold from three, no surprise. So the key is to have other players lead your offense. Fornes should play a back up role and Okauru needs to stick to driving to the basket with maybe two attempts from three per game. Fornes needs to pass the ball and let others shoot. He's just not good on offense, turns the ball over and fouls a lot.
This is how Fornes played his first time at UNCW so it should not come as a surprise to anyone and he got benched . I checked some of these guys shooting percentages in HS and they are performing at abut the same rate-not to say they can't improve but it also should not surprise anyone when they miss shots . Totally not buying the sickness exceuse at all,if they can play -can't be that sick . Why is Thomas not playing at all ? Can't see him staying around if that doesn't change and quick . The transfer rule puts extra pressure on coaches to play guys or they can leave and play right now .

So you don't believe the kids are sick?


It’s not that we don’t believe they’re sick. It’s just a STUPID excuse when you look at the game stats.

So, not sick enough to out rebound the other team. Not sick enough to have more possessions (15+ I believe).

But clearly too sick to make shots.

See the logic flaw there? Maybe they’ve been sick all season and that’s why our offense looks like a HS JV squad?

Yes I do see logic flaw....If you have ever played a team sport...sick, you must understand you're not at your best .We have MULTIPLE players under the weather. I agree, the offense needs work but to simply ignore the facts about the teams health last night doesn't seem right.Again, I know you are not a supporter of coach Siddle..But to bash anyone in this instance seems to be flawed logic to me.


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Looks like we might have been sicker than some folks thought.Montana basketball twitter reporting UNCW has withdrawn from the tournament.
(11-25-2021 02:52 PM)GrayHawk Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like we might have been sicker than some folks thought.Montana basketball twitter reporting UNCW has withdrawn from the tournament.

So many couch coaches, so much foot in mouth disease.
Again. Not saying we weren’t sick.

I’m saying from the STATS and facts, that was a winnable game.

Hope the players and coaches get feeling better, and come back fired up to get some wins.

Call me a couch coach all you want. The stats agree with me.

Y’all wanna keep stretching for excuses for our ugly offense and losses, have at it. Eventually you’ll have to identify where some sort of responsibility lies. Maybe not, it’s 2021, and I know taking responsibility for anything negative is a rarity in our society now.


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Hope they all get well soon! This is the best decision as it is obviously a huge problem.

Btw…Hawks did not out-rebound Southern Miss and clearly lacked a post presence without their normal big rotation/availability. I’m surprised that the board battle wasn’t even worse.

https://uncwsports.com/sports/mens-baske...score/8809
(11-25-2021 04:07 PM)billthebighawksfan Wrote: [ -> ]Hope they all get well soon! This is the best decision as it is obviously a huge problem.

Btw…Hawks did not out-rebound Southern Miss and clearly lacked a post presence without their normal big rotation/availability. I’m surprised that the board battle wasn’t even worse.

https://uncwsports.com/sports/mens-baske...score/8809


You’re right. I stand corrected. USM had TWO more rebounds than we did, and we took 21 more shots than they took.

By those measures we STILL should have won that game.

Excuses excuses.


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Wonder how many were actually sick? I mean with covid rules last year we played with 7,8 guys dressed


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Most rational basketball people understand that players make a difference and when you don’t have your point guards and centers, you will have problems.

Number of shots is one thing, shot quality is quite another. Southern Miss dominated paint points. That is largely due to the defections and illness.

For the Hawks to not even attempt to play and from what I can gather, they probably have 5-7 currently affected with the flu.

Nobody is saying that the Hawks haven’t had some issues but these issues are real. It has nothing to do with culpability. A true fan is compassionate to the players well being. You can resume playing when you get healthy.
(11-25-2021 06:44 PM)billthebighawksfan Wrote: [ -> ]Most rational basketball people understand that players make a difference and when you don’t have your point guards and centers, you will have problems.

Number of shots is one thing, shot quality is quite another. Southern Miss dominated paint points. That is largely due to the defections and illness.

For the Hawks to not even attempt to play and from what I can gather, they probably have 5-7 currently affected with the flu.

Nobody is saying that the Hawks haven’t had some issues but these issues are real. It has nothing to do with culpability. A true fan is compassionate to the players well being. You can resume playing when you get healthy.


You done rambling? Can we carry on now?


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(11-25-2021 06:44 PM)billthebighawksfan Wrote: [ -> ]Number of shots is one thing, shot quality is quite another. Southern Miss dominated paint points. That is largely due to the defections and illness.

Lmao. Okaaaaaay buddy.

Keep telling yourself that. We haven’t had any sort of successful paint play at all this year, even against non-D1 competition. You gonna chalk that up to illness too? How about our FG% all season so far? Illness also?

I mean. Maybe I’m not the basketball knowledge stud you claim and pride yourself to be, but some of us also played the game quite a bit and do understand it. Shocking as that may be to you.

Another poster earlier today (Mullet I believe) posted that the HS shooting numbers for these guys is about the same as the production we are currently getting. So either Siddle recruited a bunch of guys to be distance jump shooters who have never been successful shooters, or he thought he could coach them into being better shooters. Either way, it’s not happening and it’s near impossible to envision this team finishing above 9th place in one of the worst conferences in basketball.

That’s where we’re currently at.

I do hope all the players get better soon and get back on the court, but the time for excuses is over. This team hasn’t proved anything this year.


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Those close to me can tell you that, through the decades I have expressed concerns about where or how our program may be going. But, one thing I will not do is go on social media and openly attack our coaching staff and especially our players. I personally believe it is a low blow to these young men who are trying their best to help this program succeed. This team in particular has not come close to playing a single season together. They don't deserve being openly turned on by fans. Especially so quick.
What Keatts did, turning this program around so quickly is highly unusual. Building a strong program is more like what happened with UNCG. It doesn't happen overnight. We have fans that who are extremely critical from jump street, wanting a coaching staff to produce overnight. They expect coaches and players to figure it out immediately. But they, as fans, don't have the fortitude to even stay away from something like FloSports. Something that hurts in national exposure and recruiting. But that's just me. I will express my disappointments without our players having to see it.. It's my opinion. You guys go ahead and do your thing. I choose not to contribute to our problems.
Well put 33.

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No reason to always make everything personal. And, that’s what you’re doing here.

I post facts and go from there. If you feel the need to put me down, go ahead bro.
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