After the three CUSA schools announced they were leaving for the SBC, Judy and Co. went into overdrive to backfill with Liberty, NMSU, Jax State and SHSU. I've been wondering if we had invited Liberty a couple of weeks earlier would Marshall and ODU have stayed in CUSA? I think USM was gone no matter what.
Liberty was always our number 1 option. I think it's a little coincidental that only after Marshall and ODU left, Liberty joined. Kind of makes you wonder who was really against them.
(11-11-2021 04:36 PM)JCMiner Wrote: [ -> ]Liberty was always our number 1 option. I think it's a little coincidental that only after Marshall and ODU left, Liberty joined. Kind of makes you wonder who was really against them.
Don’t look at us. We were pushing for them & JMU. My understanding was Marshall was as well.
It might not be that they didn’t have the votes but what the rest of the conference looked like. We were likely against additions in TX and probably JSU as well. Plus WKU very well could have made the move if we hadn’t.
(11-11-2021 04:20 PM)Blue Raider Dave Wrote: [ -> ]After the three CUSA schools announced they were leaving for the SBC, Judy and Co. went into overdrive to backfill with Liberty, NMSU, Jax State and SHSU. I've been wondering if we had invited Liberty a couple of weeks earlier would Marshall and ODU have stayed in CUSA? I think USM was gone no matter what.
I feel pretty confident ODU and Marshall would have stayed and JMU would have joined. I agree that USM was gone regardless. We play LU all the time anyway and according to both ADs we have a good relationship. So dont look at us, we wanted them to begin with. My guess (and nothing more than a guess) is Judy didnt want too much consolidated in the east, so pushed against it. Once ODU and Marshall said they were going and JMU was consequently no longer an option, she got more desperate and bringing in an eastern team wouldnt threaten her Texan empire.
I don't think USM or marshal could afford to stay in C-USA from a monetary standpoint. It became too expensive for them.
So they were gone no matter what.
(11-11-2021 04:20 PM)Blue Raider Dave Wrote: [ -> ]After the three CUSA schools announced they were leaving for the SBC, Judy and Co. went into overdrive to backfill with Liberty, NMSU, Jax State and SHSU. I've been wondering if we had invited Liberty a couple of weeks earlier would Marshall and ODU have stayed in CUSA? I think USM was gone no matter what.
Yes, if Liberty and JMU would have been added to CUSA, Marshall and ODU would both still be here. Period. Absolutely ZERO if, ands or buts about it.
I don't believe it. CUSA was going after JMU and Liberty until Marshall and ODU decided to go to the Sun Belt with JMU. It makes perfect sense. The SB has a nice east presence and a good TV deal with ESPN. Who knows what the next TV deal would look like even if Marshall, ODU, JMU and Liberty were a part of the conference. Too much uncertainty as opposed to a stable conference and TV deal.
(11-11-2021 05:13 PM)JCMiner Wrote: [ -> ]I don't believe it. CUSA was going after JMU and Liberty until Marshall and ODU decided to go to the Sun Belt with JMU. It makes perfect sense. The SB has a nice east presence and a good TV deal with ESPN. Who knows what the next TV deal would look like even if Marshall, ODU, JMU and Liberty were a part of the conference. Too much uncertainty as opposed to a stable conference and TV deal.
That, I’m sure was a consideration as well.
(11-11-2021 05:13 PM)JCMiner Wrote: [ -> ]I don't believe it. CUSA was going after JMU and Liberty until Marshall and ODU decided to go to the Sun Belt with JMU. It makes perfect sense. The SB has a nice east presence and a good TV deal with ESPN. Who knows what the next TV deal would look like even if Marshall, ODU, JMU and Liberty were a part of the conference. Too much uncertainty as opposed to a stable conference and TV deal.
*shrug* Believe whatever you want. We were pushing for Liberty and JMU to be brought into CUSA, and if that would have happened we'd still be here. That was shot down so we looked towards the Sun Belt. Many at Marshall wanted to stay in CUSA, and we were planning on doing so if we could strengthen the eastern side with Liberty and JMU. But enough were not in support of bringing in Liberty and JMU at that time, and didn't think Marshall was serious about leaving. 4 of the 6 teams that were leaving for the AAC were western teams (UAB, NT, Rice, UTSA) and the teams that were left were hesitate about shifting more power to the east by brining in Liberty and JMU. Other concerns were brought up about Liberty. Now clearly once ODU and Marshall left, the balance of power shifted, and programs that previously were against Liberty, for whatever reason, was then willing to bring them in. But if it could have been done earlier, things could be very different. Either way, here we are now.
(11-11-2021 05:28 PM)forphase1 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2021 05:13 PM)JCMiner Wrote: [ -> ]I don't believe it. CUSA was going after JMU and Liberty until Marshall and ODU decided to go to the Sun Belt with JMU. It makes perfect sense. The SB has a nice east presence and a good TV deal with ESPN. Who knows what the next TV deal would look like even if Marshall, ODU, JMU and Liberty were a part of the conference. Too much uncertainty as opposed to a stable conference and TV deal.
*shrug* Believe whatever you want. We were pushing for Liberty and JMU to be brought into CUSA, and if that would have happened we'd still be here. That was shot down so we looked towards the Sun Belt. Many at Marshall wanted to stay in CUSA, and we were planning on doing so if we could strengthen the eastern side with Liberty and JMU. But enough were not in support of bringing in Liberty and JMU at that time, and didn't think Marshall was serious about leaving. 4 of the 6 teams that were leaving for the AAC were western teams (UAB, NT, Rice, UTSA) and the teams that were left were hesitate about shifting more power to the east by brining in Liberty and JMU. Other concerns were brought up about Liberty. Now clearly once ODU and Marshall left, the balance of power shifted, and programs that previously were against Liberty, for whatever reason, was then willing to bring them in. But if it could have been done earlier, things could be very different. Either way, here we are now.
I'll believe what actually happened. Liberty joined after Marshall and ODU took JMU to the SB. Liberty and JMU were the first names linked to CUSA.
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/14...frame.html
In the end all 3 schools agreed it was a safer bet to join an established league with other teams in the east than to rebuild CUSA.
My understanding is that even a week before the formal Sun Belt announcement, Marshall staying in CUSA with ODU while adding JMU and Liberty was actually still the front running option for us. Two things changed the equation - 1.) ESPN upped the Sun Belt payout so that it would eventually approach what the new AAC additions are getting, and 2.) CUSA league office was insistent on re-establishing a western footprint while we wanted to firmly establish an Eastern/Mid-Atlantic footprint with a smaller league. I don't think Liberty was the issue - it was doubling down on the "Texas strategy" with NMSU, SHSU, and having Tarleton State on a candidate list...
I'm fully aware of what actually happened, and yes, Liberty joined after Marshall and ODU took JMU to the Sun Belt. But I'm also very aware of discussions that were going on before any of those moves were official, and Liberty and JMU were linked to CUSA as there were active discussions about bringing them in. Marshall and ODU both strongly supported bring in both institutions. Unfortunately those discussions did not bear fruit, and lead to Marshall and ODU packing their bags for the Sun Belt.
(11-11-2021 05:42 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote: [ -> ]My understanding is that even a week before the formal Sun Belt announcement, Marshall staying in CUSA with ODU while adding JMU and Liberty was actually still the front running option for us. Two things changed the equation - 1.) ESPN upped the Sun Belt payout so that it would eventually approach what the new AAC additions are getting, and 2.) CUSA league office was insistent on re-establishing a western footprint while we wanted to firmly establish an Eastern/Mid-Atlantic footprint with a smaller league. I don't think Liberty was the issue - it was doubling down on the "Texas strategy" with NMSU, SHSU, and having Tarleton State on a candidate list...
Basically wanting a travel partner for UTEP (NMSU) was too much for Marshall. Funny cuz Tarleton St was mentioned after Marshall had left along with McNeese St. Neither of who are in or expected to be in.
Adding Liberty makes the conference more entertaining...especially now that Falwell Jr is out...what a clown and embarrassment he was.
Hopefully, if CUSA expands, they're be more strategic and add out of want to, and not necessity. I'd love to see Missouri State and maybe one or two basketball-only adds (FGCU preferably, North Florida, or either Lipscomb/UNO...because New Orleans is a fun city).
If not, if you can't be with the ones you love, then love the ones you're with!
(11-11-2021 05:45 PM)forphase1 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm fully aware of what actually happened, and yes, Liberty joined after Marshall and ODU took JMU to the Sun Belt. But I'm also very aware of discussions that were going on before any of those moves were official, and Liberty and JMU were linked to CUSA as there were active discussions about bringing them in. Marshall and ODU both strongly supported bring in both institutions. Unfortunately those discussions did not bear fruit, and lead to Marshall and ODU packing their bags for the Sun Belt.
Then who was against it? And did that same school or schools vote yes after everyone left?
(11-11-2021 05:48 PM)JCMiner Wrote: [ -> ]Basically wanting a travel partner for UTEP (NMSU) was too much for Marshall. Funny cuz Tarleton St was mentioned after Marshall had left along with McNeese St. Neither of who are in or expected to be in.
UTEP's needs, unfortunately, did not rate very high on the factors that went into Marshall and ODU's decisions. Marshall and ODU had been signaling months before they were working together on an Eastern strategy, and this presented an opportunity. The league with the best Eastern strategy (and one that also had a shiny new TV commitment) won the day...
(11-11-2021 04:20 PM)Blue Raider Dave Wrote: [ -> ]After the three CUSA schools announced they were leaving for the SBC, Judy and Co. went into overdrive to backfill with Liberty, NMSU, Jax State and SHSU. I've been wondering if we had invited Liberty a couple of weeks earlier would Marshall and ODU have stayed in CUSA? I think USM was gone no matter what.
I think part of ODU, Marshall, or JMU did not want to be in a conference with Liberty. Probably not the athletic departments, but some administrators or Presidents. I tend to blame JMU most, but I don't have any real proof of this. I do agree that ODU was probably not the school against Liberty.
(11-11-2021 04:20 PM)Blue Raider Dave Wrote: [ -> ]After the three CUSA schools announced they were leaving for the SBC, Judy and Co. went into overdrive to backfill with Liberty, NMSU, Jax State and SHSU. I've been wondering if we had invited Liberty a couple of weeks earlier would Marshall and ODU have stayed in CUSA? I think USM was gone no matter what.
Not a chance that we stayed guys, I'm sorry but that conference is shite. It is honestly probably better than it was, with the worst teams going to the AAC, but only slightly better in aggregate even with liberty. Sunbelt is still stronger and better option. ESPN, more money and exposure, better competition.
(11-11-2021 04:48 PM)mturn017 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2021 04:36 PM)JCMiner Wrote: [ -> ]Liberty was always our number 1 option. I think it's a little coincidental that only after Marshall and ODU left, Liberty joined. Kind of makes you wonder who was really against them.
Don’t look at us. We were pushing for them & JMU. My understanding was Marshall was as well.
It might not be that they didn’t have the votes but what the rest of the conference looked like. We were likely against additions in TX and probably JSU as well. Plus WKU very well could have made the move if we hadn’t.
This confirms what I thought. I believe JMU messed up the whole Liberty/ODU/Marshall/JMU to CUSA thought. Of course, another possibility is that the Western teams did not like so many eastern teams in CUSA and voted against Liberty but not due to the reason everyone frequently posts.
(11-11-2021 06:04 PM)CoachMaclid Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2021 05:48 PM)JCMiner Wrote: [ -> ]Basically wanting a travel partner for UTEP (NMSU) was too much for Marshall. Funny cuz Tarleton St was mentioned after Marshall had left along with McNeese St. Neither of who are in or expected to be in.
UTEP's needs, unfortunately, did not rate very high on the factors that went into Marshall and ODU's decisions. Marshall and ODU had been signaling months before they were working together on an Eastern strategy, and this presented an opportunity. The league with the best Eastern strategy (and one that also had a shiny new TV commitment) won the day...
Exactly. That's all I've been asking for y'all to admit. Not this bs that if JMU had joined you guys would still be here. For all we know JMU liked the SB and their TV deal better.