From the Article
"I'm confident the Big 12 is going to retain Power Five status," said Chuck Neinas, the league's commissioner from 1971-80 who served it again in an interim role from 2011-12. "Will [Greg] Sankey say no?"
Neinas was being facetious suggesting the SEC commissioner owes the Big 12 an alignment favor. But he is not far off the mark. A reconstituted Big 12 would be the lowest-resourced Power Five conference. It would have fewer brands and major metro markets than any of the other four.
Better to be on the right side of the line that defines haves vs. have nots in college athletics. The retention of the Big 12 in the Power Five model would give it 69 major-conference schools with 61 so-called Group of Five schools below that line.
It would be the first time since at least the beginning of the College Football Playoff in 2014 where there was a majority of teams at the top level.
Because of that, the Big 12's future could be a simple case of kill or be killed. The SEC targeted the two schools that essentially made it a desirable conference to the networks. Now, the Big 12 faces raiding the lower-resourced American Athletic Conference to get bigger. There is little choice to keep the Big 12 in the Power Five.
"[Commissioner] Bob Bowlsby has enough clout to make it stay as it is," one Power Five athletic director said.
But why should the Big 12 be grandfathered into a Power Five designation? The answer to that tops the list of implications of the Big 12's expansion.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...structure/
IMO
The SEC will definitely want to call the new B12 a power conference. Schools in these two conferences share similar, football-first operating models. The SEC needs a partner to push-back on potential Alliance demands on support for non-revenue sports and archaic scholar-athlete requirements.
The SEC (and B1G) will also not allow new CFP revenue distribution to be shared equally amongst each power conference. Currently, each P5 conference receives the same annual CFP distribution. Now that the SEC has grown with two additional football brands, they'll be looking to create revenue distribution models that reward the strongest football programs. No doubt that the B12 will be better-off financially than any G5 conference, but the SEC will want to change how revenue is distributed.
Something interesting that Staples put out as well
That's a really interesting concept... that in order for the Power group to have power, there still has to balance on both sides.
Which is going to make it really entertaining when the WAC and Atlantic Sun add FBS football sometime in the next decade. That means they Power 5 has to grow to a Power 6!
IMO, there is just no way to categorically equate a conference with the "New Big 12" lineup of schools with the SEC's lineup of schools, or the B1G's.
The brand-value gap is just too vast. I mean, set TX and OU aside, place them in limbo in no conference, and the current SEC has like a Pacific ocean sized brand value gap with the L8/L12.
(09-08-2021 05:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, there is just no way to categorically equate a conference with the "New Big 12" lineup of schools with the SEC's lineup of schools, or the B1G's.
The brand-value gap is just too vast. I mean, set TX and OU aside, place them in limbo in no conference, and the current SEC has like a Pacific ocean sized brand value gap with the L8/L12.
Well...ppl in the know and have contacts with those in power disagree...time will tell...
(09-08-2021 05:15 PM)Maize Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, there is just no way to categorically equate a conference with the "New Big 12" lineup of schools with the SEC's lineup of schools, or the B1G's.
The brand-value gap is just too vast. I mean, set TX and OU aside, place them in limbo in no conference, and the current SEC has like a Pacific ocean sized brand value gap with the L8/L12.
Well...ppl in the know and have contacts with those in power disagree...time will tell...
Just line up the brands and compare them. Not only are the top 7 SEC brands far beyond anything the NB12 has, it's probably the case that the SEC brands 8-12 are more valuable than the top five NB12 brands. It truly is a vast gap.
I agree that strange things can happen, but this would be one of the stranger ones. The only reason the Big 12 was "power" in the CFP was because Texas and Oklahoma stayed in 2011. They are the "power" component of the league. I'm not sure anyone can really disagree with that?
(09-08-2021 05:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:15 PM)Maize Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, there is just no way to categorically equate a conference with the "New Big 12" lineup of schools with the SEC's lineup of schools, or the B1G's.
The brand-value gap is just too vast. I mean, set TX and OU aside, place them in limbo in no conference, and the current SEC has like a Pacific ocean sized brand value gap with the L8/L12.
Well...ppl in the know and have contacts with those in power disagree...time will tell...
Just line up the brands and compare them.
I agree that strange things can happen, but this would be one of the stranger ones. The only reason the Big 12 was "power" in the CFP was because Texas and Oklahoma stayed in 2011. They are the "power" component of the league. I'm not sure anyone can really disagree with that?
The one thing ppl over looked was a Jim Phillips the ACC Commissioner called the Big XII a Power 5 Conference even after Texas and Oklahoma left and said they were very important...that quote was IMO somewhat eyebrow raising.
Now make no mistake...when it comes to revenue they will be lagging behind just about everyone...but still well after of the 5 lower leagues.
I think we will have a P5 until eventually further conference realignment creates a P2 and then, the ACC and PAC-12 will be in the same boat as the BIG 12 is now.
(09-08-2021 05:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, there is just no way to categorically equate a conference with the "New Big 12" lineup of schools with the SEC's lineup of schools, or the B1G's.
The brand-value gap is just vast.
No doubt. But that's always been the case. The myth of BCS superiority has been that BCS/Power 5 schools are great, and everyone else is trash. But that's never actually been TRUE. Just watch Gonzaga or Dayton basketball.
The only difference is the volume of good programs in each conference, and how conference play works (with 67% to 75% of games being conference games).
The SEC/Big Ten are power conferences because they have 14 teams going 4-0 or 3-1 in OOC play, so all their football teams are on average 7-5. While Group of Five is getting paid to lose road games OOC, and all their teams are on average 5-7. Then the recruits follow the myth and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
There's always been a tier structure to conferences, like a pyramid instead of simply have/have nots. The line has ALWAYS been jacked up
(Basketball's the obvious one. The A-10 has basically been one Final Four run behind the Pac-12 for the last 20 years; and they could have gotten that from Dayton if not for the pandemic).
(09-08-2021 05:21 PM)UCbball21 Wrote: [ -> ]I think we will have a P5 until eventually further conference realignment creates a P2 and then, the ACC and PAC-12 will be in the same boat as the BIG 12 is now.
This is absolutely true. The ACC will be in the same situation in a few years that The Big 12 is in now. We are moving quickly toward a Big 2. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Big 12 /ACC merger sometime after 2036.
With that being said, we’re talking 15 years in the future, anything is possible.
The Big East was technically a member of the club but really they were the tweener conference between the haves and have nots
The new B12 will be the same role
(09-08-2021 05:36 PM)CardinalJim Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:21 PM)UCbball21 Wrote: [ -> ]I think we will have a P5 until eventually further conference realignment creates a P2 and then, the ACC and PAC-12 will be in the same boat as the BIG 12 is now.
This is absolutely true. The ACC will be in the same situation in a few years that The Big 12 is in now. We are moving quickly toward a Big 2. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Big 12 /ACC merger sometime after 2036.
With that being said, we’re talking 15 years in the future, anything is possible.
While we wait, let's get a Cincy-Louisville home and home in the books for football and basketball in the meantime.
(09-08-2021 05:52 PM)10thMountain Wrote: [ -> ]The Big East was technically a member of the club but really they were the tweener conference between the haves and have nots
The new B12 will be the same role
^^^^
This...but as the article said would rather be in that role than below the Mendoza Line
(09-08-2021 05:36 PM)CardinalJim Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:21 PM)UCbball21 Wrote: [ -> ]I think we will have a P5 until eventually further conference realignment creates a P2 and then, the ACC and PAC-12 will be in the same boat as the BIG 12 is now.
This is absolutely true. The ACC will be in the same situation in a few years that The Big 12 is in now. We are moving quickly toward a Big 2. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Big 12 /ACC merger sometime after 2036.
With that being said, we’re talking 15 years in the future, anything is possible.
It will be the ACC's turn in the barrel in 10 years. The Pac is safe for now because of geography.
(09-08-2021 06:01 PM)UCbball21 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:36 PM)CardinalJim Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:21 PM)UCbball21 Wrote: [ -> ]I think we will have a P5 until eventually further conference realignment creates a P2 and then, the ACC and PAC-12 will be in the same boat as the BIG 12 is now.
This is absolutely true. The ACC will be in the same situation in a few years that The Big 12 is in now. We are moving quickly toward a Big 2. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Big 12 /ACC merger sometime after 2036.
With that being said, we’re talking 15 years in the future, anything is possible.
While we wait, let's get a Cincy-Louisville home and home in the books for football and basketball in the meantime.
In agreement...Bring back the Keg of Nails....
(09-08-2021 06:03 PM)domer1978 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:36 PM)CardinalJim Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:21 PM)UCbball21 Wrote: [ -> ]I think we will have a P5 until eventually further conference realignment creates a P2 and then, the ACC and PAC-12 will be in the same boat as the BIG 12 is now.
This is absolutely true. The ACC will be in the same situation in a few years that The Big 12 is in now. We are moving quickly toward a Big 2. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Big 12 /ACC merger sometime after 2036.
With that being said, we’re talking 15 years in the future, anything is possible.
It will be the ACC's turn in the barrel in 10 years. The Pac is safe for now because of geography.
We all see this coming....just make the best of the current situation.
(09-08-2021 05:20 PM)Maize Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:15 PM)Maize Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:13 PM)quo vadis Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, there is just no way to categorically equate a conference with the "New Big 12" lineup of schools with the SEC's lineup of schools, or the B1G's.
The brand-value gap is just too vast. I mean, set TX and OU aside, place them in limbo in no conference, and the current SEC has like a Pacific ocean sized brand value gap with the L8/L12.
Well...ppl in the know and have contacts with those in power disagree...time will tell...
Just line up the brands and compare them.
I agree that strange things can happen, but this would be one of the stranger ones. The only reason the Big 12 was "power" in the CFP was because Texas and Oklahoma stayed in 2011. They are the "power" component of the league. I'm not sure anyone can really disagree with that?
The one thing ppl over looked was a Jim Phillips the ACC Commissioner called the Big XII a Power 5 Conference even after Texas and Oklahoma left and said they were very important...that quote was IMO somewhat eyebrow raising.
Now make no mistake...when it comes to revenue they will be lagging behind just about everyone...but still well after of the 5 lower leagues.
IMO, what was notable about the statement by the ACC commissioner is that IIRC he said that as his "Alliance" of actual P5 conferences was leaving the L8 out of their group.
(09-08-2021 06:02 PM)Maize Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:52 PM)10thMountain Wrote: [ -> ]The Big East was technically a member of the club but really they were the tweener conference between the haves and have nots
The new B12 will be the same role
^^^^
This...but as the article said would rather be in that role than below the Mendoza Line
Well for sure, the NB12 will formally be a Power conference until the deals run out in 2025. That's guaranteed as all the contracts are signed. They won't lose the Sugar Bowl, won't lose their CFP money share, won't lose media value because of the GOR, etc.
That's how the Big East was able to stay AQ while USF and Cincy were in it from 2005-2012 - because all the contracts were signed. But when the contracts run out, or are up for re-up ...
(09-08-2021 06:01 PM)UCbball21 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:36 PM)CardinalJim Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2021 05:21 PM)UCbball21 Wrote: [ -> ]I think we will have a P5 until eventually further conference realignment creates a P2 and then, the ACC and PAC-12 will be in the same boat as the BIG 12 is now.
This is absolutely true. The ACC will be in the same situation in a few years that The Big 12 is in now. We are moving quickly toward a Big 2. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Big 12 /ACC merger sometime after 2036.
With that being said, we’re talking 15 years in the future, anything is possible.
While we wait, let's get a Cincy-Louisville home and home in the books for football and basketball in the meantime.
Basketball would be a great game but y’all are miles ahead of us in football. We need to can our hayseed coach and get somebody that runs an offense that includes more than a dive and bubble screens. We’ll just have to hold on to the Keg of Nails in meantime. If we ever played y’all we might not ever win it back.