I know geography is over blown for FBS football but creating divisions for a 12 team B12 with UCF, BYU, Houston & Cincinnati is frustrating.
East vs West
West: BYU, TT, TCU, OK St, Kansas,Kansas State
East: UCF, WV, Cincinnati, Houston, ISU, Baylor
You have to split texas schools or kansas schools with east west. They are not at all concise
North vs South is no better.Byu and WV end up in the same division
Pods are better but still have issues
3x4
1: WV, Cincinnati, UCF, ISU
2: Kansas, Kansas State, Ok State, BYU
3: Houston, Baylor, TCU, TT
Pod 1 and 2 have huge outliers.
4×3
1:WV, Cincinnati, UCF
2: ISU, Kansas, Kansas State
3: BYU, TT, OK State
4: Houston, Baylor, TCU
Best of the options so far but pod 1 and 3 are also far flung. This also splits the TT and Ok State from other Texas Schools.
What arrangement if any is workable?
BYU throws a wrench in the 12-school setup because there's no clean, geographically-friendly split that keeps the original Big 8 schools together which I presume would be ideal. At 12 with BYU, Central Florida, Cincinnati, and Houston:
I think this is the best -
East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, TCU, West Virginia
West: BYU, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech
14 is a bit cleaner from a rivalry standpoint (include Memphis and South Florida) by split old XII + BYU and new XII -
East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, South Florida, TCU, West Virginia
West: BYU, Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech
Easy:
East/North: WVU, Cincinnati, UCF, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St
West/South: Houston, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St, BYU
My guess is that this point will be moot and, by the time that Texas and Oklahoma enter the SEC, the divisional requirement is going to go out the window. At the same time, the 12-team playoff is going to have the top 6 conference champs getting auto-bids, it incentivizes everyone to have their best two teams playing in the conference championship game every year regardless of geography.
Forget divisions.
*If* those four teams are added to the Big 12, then, in football, the former Big 8 teams play each other every year, the Texas teams play each other every year, and the three eastern teams plus BYU play each other every year.
(09-02-2021 10:51 AM)LeeNobody Wrote: [ -> ]I know geography is over blown for FBS football but creating divisions for a 12 team B12 with UCF, BYU, Houston & Cincinnati is frustrating.
East vs West
West: BYU, TT, TCU, OK St, Kansas,Kansas State
East: UCF, WV, Cincinnati, Houston, ISU, Baylor
You have to split texas schools or kansas schools with east west. They are not at all concise
North vs South is no better.Byu and WV end up in the same division
Pods are better but still have issues
3x4
1: WV, Cincinnati, UCF, ISU
2: Kansas, Kansas State, Ok State, BYU
3: Houston, Baylor, TCU, TT
Pod 1 and 2 have huge outliers.
4×3
1:WV, Cincinnati, UCF
2: ISU, Kansas, Kansas State
3: BYU, TT, OK State
4: Houston, Baylor, TCU
Best of the options so far but pod 1 and 3 are also far flung. This also splits the TT and Ok State from other Texas Schools.
What arrangement if any is workable?
No.
Texoma schools + BYU
Big 12 North + Big East
BU KU
TCU KSU
TT ISU
OSU WVU
UH UC
BYU UCF
Keeps rivalries alive except for maybe OSU and the B12 north schools but their fans have been playing the Texas schools annually for 25 years and recruit here while being in another division from KU, KSU, ISU for 15 of those years. I assume they'd want to be in with the Texas schools.
TCU reunites with BYU
WVU gets in with 3 of the 4 remaining flagship or land grant schools
B12 north schools get games in Ohio or Florida
WVU gets reunited with UC
BYU gets another religious school matchup with BU
(09-02-2021 10:51 AM)LeeNobody Wrote: [ -> ]I know geography is over blown for FBS football but creating divisions for a 12 team B12 with UCF, BYU, Houston & Cincinnati is frustrating.
East vs West
West: BYU, TT, TCU, OK St, Kansas,Kansas State
East: UCF, WV, Cincinnati, Houston, ISU, Baylor
You have to split texas schools or kansas schools with east west. They are not at all concise
North vs South is no better.Byu and WV end up in the same division
Pods are better but still have issues
3x4
1: WV, Cincinnati, UCF, ISU
2: Kansas, Kansas State, Ok State, BYU
3: Houston, Baylor, TCU, TT
Pod 1 and 2 have huge outliers.
4×3
1:WV, Cincinnati, UCF
2: ISU, Kansas, Kansas State
3: BYU, TT, OK State
4: Houston, Baylor, TCU
Best of the options so far but pod 1 and 3 are also far flung. This also splits the TT and Ok State from other Texas Schools.
What arrangement if any is workable?
Your East vs West is the best option. The Texas schools must be split for recruiting purposes. Everybody wants to recruit Texas so there must be two Texas schools in each division......That is extremely important
The East with WVU, Cincy, Iowa State and UCF makes geographical sense, then add two Texas schools of Baylor and Houston.
The West also makes geographical sense with the two farthest West Texas schools
(09-02-2021 11:09 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]Forget divisions.
*If* those four teams are added to the Big 12, then, in football, the former Big 8 teams play each other every year, the Texas teams play each other every year, and the three eastern teams plus BYU play each other every year.
I like a permanent rival setup and going divisionless.
BU, TTU, TCU, UH get the other TX schools and one other
Big 8 schools do the same with their group of 4
Newbie quad does the same
Baylor also draws KU
TCU also draws BYU
Tech also draws OSU
UH also draws Cincy
ISU draws WVU
KSU draws UCF for recruiting
(09-02-2021 11:16 AM)texoma Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 10:51 AM)LeeNobody Wrote: [ -> ]I know geography is over blown for FBS football but creating divisions for a 12 team B12 with UCF, BYU, Houston & Cincinnati is frustrating.
East vs West
West: BYU, TT, TCU, OK St, Kansas,Kansas State
East: UCF, WV, Cincinnati, Houston, ISU, Baylor
You have to split texas schools or kansas schools with east west. They are not at all concise
North vs South is no better.Byu and WV end up in the same division
Pods are better but still have issues
3x4
1: WV, Cincinnati, UCF, ISU
2: Kansas, Kansas State, Ok State, BYU
3: Houston, Baylor, TCU, TT
Pod 1 and 2 have huge outliers.
4×3
1:WV, Cincinnati, UCF
2: ISU, Kansas, Kansas State
3: BYU, TT, OK State
4: Houston, Baylor, TCU
Best of the options so far but pod 1 and 3 are also far flung. This also splits the TT and Ok State from other Texas Schools.
What arrangement if any is workable?
East vs West is the best option. The Texas schools must be split for recruiting purposes. Everybody wants to recruit Texas so there must be two Texas schools in each division.
The East with WVU, Cincy, Iowa State and UCF makes geographical sense, then add two Texas schools of Baylor and Houston.
The West also makes geographical sense
NOPE.
1- You will have added two schools in prime recruiting ground and with all the TX teams in one division you'll get two per year at least.
2- Teams want rivals on schedules to sell tickets.
3- ISU barely recruits Texas now.
4- If you have to protect the KS schools with more games in TX you set up one permanent rival game and ensure they get TCU, Baylor, or UH which all sit in the TX triangle.
5- Pulling a PAC12 to kneecap your W/L records with two forced permanent rival games requiring a 9 game schedule in league play is competitively stupid for a league that will need to earn it's relevance by making the playoff.
Splitting the schools with history together kills regional appeal both on tv and at the ticket office. Idiocy.
(09-02-2021 11:18 AM)1845 Bear Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 11:09 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]Forget divisions.
*If* those four teams are added to the Big 12, then, in football, the former Big 8 teams play each other every year, the Texas teams play each other every year, and the three eastern teams plus BYU play each other every year.
I like a permanent rival setup and going divisionless.
BU, TTU, TCU, UH get the other TX schools and one other
Big 8 schools do the same with their group of 4
Newbie quad does the same
Baylor also draws KU
TCU also draws BYU
Tech also draws OSU
UH also draws Cincy
ISU draws WVU
KSU draws UCF for recruiting
I'm sure Baylor fans would love the advantage of having KU as their permanent football rival and automatic win every year while TCU has to play BYU every year. That's kind of like Baylor and TCU runners competing in a 100-yard dash in which the Baylor runner gets a 10-yard head start.
(09-02-2021 11:23 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 11:18 AM)1845 Bear Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 11:09 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]Forget divisions.
*If* those four teams are added to the Big 12, then, in football, the former Big 8 teams play each other every year, the Texas teams play each other every year, and the three eastern teams plus BYU play each other every year.
I like a permanent rival setup and going divisionless.
BU, TTU, TCU, UH get the other TX schools and one other
Big 8 schools do the same with their group of 4
Newbie quad does the same
Baylor also draws KU
TCU also draws BYU
Tech also draws OSU
UH also draws Cincy
ISU draws WVU
KSU draws UCF for recruiting
I'm sure Baylor fans would love the advantage of having KU as their permanent football rival and automatic win every year while TCU has to play BYU every year. That's kind of like Baylor and TCU runners competing in a 100-yard dash in which the Baylor runner gets a 10-yard head start.
The TCU pick was because they have history with BYU both in the WAC and with some big matchups in the late 2000's MWC.
I tried to match mutual interest first. Which is why UH got Cincy, ISU got WVU since they've had some good games, Tech and OSU have a semi-rival thing going, etc...
Happy to swap BU & UCF's partners with KU/KSU which would make it tougher. Those two have no real tie to the TX schools in particular so partnering them with recruiting made sense.
(09-02-2021 11:28 AM)1845 Bear Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 11:23 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 11:18 AM)1845 Bear Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 11:09 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]Forget divisions.
*If* those four teams are added to the Big 12, then, in football, the former Big 8 teams play each other every year, the Texas teams play each other every year, and the three eastern teams plus BYU play each other every year.
I like a permanent rival setup and going divisionless.
BU, TTU, TCU, UH get the other TX schools and one other
Big 8 schools do the same with their group of 4
Newbie quad does the same
Baylor also draws KU
TCU also draws BYU
Tech also draws OSU
UH also draws Cincy
ISU draws WVU
KSU draws UCF for recruiting
I'm sure Baylor fans would love the advantage of having KU as their permanent football rival and automatic win every year while TCU has to play BYU every year. That's kind of like Baylor and TCU runners competing in a 100-yard dash in which the Baylor runner gets a 10-yard head start.
The TCU pick was because they have history with BYU both in the WAC and with some big matchups in the late 2000's MWC.
I tried to match mutual interest first. Which is why UH got Cincy, ISU got WVU since they've had some good games, Tech and OSU have a semi-rival thing going, etc...
Happy to swap BU & UCF's partners with KU/KSU which would make it tougher. Those two have no real tie to the TX schools in particular so partnering them with recruiting made sense.
Or Baylor could play BYU every year as a rivalry between faith-based universities.
(09-02-2021 11:04 AM)BePcr07 Wrote: [ -> ]BYU throws a wrench in the 12-school setup because there's no clean, geographically-friendly split that keeps the original Big 8 schools together which I presume would be ideal. At 12 with BYU, Central Florida, Cincinnati, and Houston:
I think this is the best -
East: Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, TCU, West Virginia
West: BYU, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech
14 is a bit cleaner from a rivalry standpoint (include Memphis and South Florida) by split old XII + BYU and new XII -
East: Central Florida, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, South Florida, TCU, West Virginia
West: BYU, Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech
I don’t have a horse in the race, but from an outside perspective I do think that expanding by 14 would be the best idea long term. On their own, Memphis and USF probably come up just a little behind the top 4, but the part that’s overlooked frequently is that just by joining the conference, all of a sudden those matchups would be elevated. I would propose a similar division split as you, the only exception maybe being Baylor in the East and TCU in the West.
Assuming those 4 schools are added, I think 2 divisions work out the best. Both divisions would be fairly balanced.
EAST
- West Virginia
- Iowa State
- Kansas St.
- Kansas
- Cincinnati [ADD]
- UCF [ADD]
WEST
- Oklahoma St.
- Texas Tech
- Baylor
- TCU
- BYU [ADD]
- Houston [ADD]
(09-02-2021 12:00 PM)UCbball21 Wrote: [ -> ]Assuming those 4 schools are added, I think 2 divisions work out the best. Both divisions would be fairly balanced.
EAST
- West Virginia
- Iowa State
- Kansas St.
- Kansas
- Cincinnati [ADD]
- UCF [ADD]
WEST
- Oklahoma St.
- Texas Tech
- Baylor
- TCU
- BYU [ADD]
- Houston [ADD]
This would be the preferred split for me as well. Need a Bball school potentially if BYU remains in the WCC, but 11 team BBall also works.
Keep the old big 8 (ISU,Kan, KSU, OkSt) together
Keep the old big east/AAC (WV, Cincy, UCF, Hou)
together
West
BYU, TT, OkSt, Kan, KSU, ISU
East
TCU, Bay, Hou, WV, Cincy, UCF
(09-02-2021 11:56 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 11:28 AM)1845 Bear Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 11:23 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 11:18 AM)1845 Bear Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 11:09 AM)Wedge Wrote: [ -> ]Forget divisions.
*If* those four teams are added to the Big 12, then, in football, the former Big 8 teams play each other every year, the Texas teams play each other every year, and the three eastern teams plus BYU play each other every year.
I like a permanent rival setup and going divisionless.
BU, TTU, TCU, UH get the other TX schools and one other
Big 8 schools do the same with their group of 4
Newbie quad does the same
Baylor also draws KU
TCU also draws BYU
Tech also draws OSU
UH also draws Cincy
ISU draws WVU
KSU draws UCF for recruiting
I'm sure Baylor fans would love the advantage of having KU as their permanent football rival and automatic win every year while TCU has to play BYU every year. That's kind of like Baylor and TCU runners competing in a 100-yard dash in which the Baylor runner gets a 10-yard head start.
The TCU pick was because they have history with BYU both in the WAC and with some big matchups in the late 2000's MWC.
I tried to match mutual interest first. Which is why UH got Cincy, ISU got WVU since they've had some good games, Tech and OSU have a semi-rival thing going, etc...
Happy to swap BU & UCF's partners with KU/KSU which would make it tougher. Those two have no real tie to the TX schools in particular so partnering them with recruiting made sense.
Or Baylor could play BYU every year as a rivalry between faith-based universities.
Would they have their trophy game called "The Holy Grail" then?
(09-02-2021 12:19 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]Keep the old big 8 (ISU,Kan, KSU, OkSt) together
Keep the old big east/AAC (WV, Cincy, UCF, Hou)
together
West
BYU, TT, OkSt, Kan, KSU, ISU
East
TCU, Bay, Hou, WV, Cincy, UCF
Tech wouldn't want to split from TCU, BU, and UH.
Keep Texoma together and add BYU to it.
Then the Big 12 north paired with the eastern schools.
Done and everyone keeps the games they actually want.
(09-02-2021 12:43 PM)1845 Bear Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 12:19 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]Keep the old big 8 (ISU,Kan, KSU, OkSt) together
Keep the old big east/AAC (WV, Cincy, UCF, Hou)
together
West
BYU, TT, OkSt, Kan, KSU, ISU
East
TCU, Bay, Hou, WV, Cincy, UCF
Tech wouldn't want to split from TCU, BU, and UH.
Keep Texoma together and add BYU to it.
Then the Big 12 north paired with the eastern schools.
Done and everyone keeps the games they actually want.
The only decision is between this and no divisions.
(09-02-2021 12:52 PM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 12:43 PM)1845 Bear Wrote: [ -> ] (09-02-2021 12:19 PM)goofus Wrote: [ -> ]Keep the old big 8 (ISU,Kan, KSU, OkSt) together
Keep the old big east/AAC (WV, Cincy, UCF, Hou)
together
West
BYU, TT, OkSt, Kan, KSU, ISU
East
TCU, Bay, Hou, WV, Cincy, UCF
Tech wouldn't want to split from TCU, BU, and UH.
Keep Texoma together and add BYU to it.
Then the Big 12 north paired with the eastern schools.
Done and everyone keeps the games they actually want.
The only decision is between this and no divisions.
right