What if the Sugar Bowl had historically followed the Rose Bowl Model of champion v champion and matched up the Big 12 Champion vs the SEC champion.
When the push came to organize the playoffs in the 90s you could have very easily added a plus 1 after the bowls to pick #1 v #2 as it would be assumed it would be the winners of those 2 Bowl games.
Sure there would be exceptions, but i think it might have sped up the crowing of a true national champion and avoided a lot of controversy
Or what if instead of adding a “national championship” game, a plus-1 was adopted? That way the traditional bowl match-ups could have continued and after the dust settled the top two teams could be paired.
I’ve wondered the same thing myself. It seems like the two would have been natural rivals. Your top tier bowls look like this going into the Bowl Coalition/Alliance years:
Rose: Big 10 vs PAC 10
Cotton: SWC vs Big 8
Sugar: SEC vs At-large
Orange: At-large vs At-large
Your ACC champ and your northern and southern independents would all be jockeying for the last 3 spots (remember the ACC de-emphasized football for a few decades and was more at the level of the WAC prior to the Florida St add.
Let’s say, that after all the big independents get grabbed up in the early 90s the Orange grabs the ACC and Big East champs, and the lone at large berth is with the Sugar Bowl.
Barring additional expansion after 1992, you could play those 4 bowls, then pit the winners in a pair of semi finals and then a final.
(06-25-2021 03:24 PM)esayem Wrote: [ -> ]Or what if instead of adding a “national championship” game, a plus-1 was adopted? That way the traditional bowl match-ups could have continued and after the dust settled the top two teams could be paired.
The Big 10 and PAC 10 might have gone for that.
Play the 4 BCS Bowls among the 6 champs and 2 at larges.
I’m curious how they’d decide where the at larges went. Also, would the ACC and Big East necessarily be tied to the Orange Bowl?
Another Bowl Game idea I had is if the SEC, who in the early days had 13 then 12 members, had decided to use the Sugar Bowl to crown their champions?
(06-25-2021 03:30 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve wondered the same thing myself. It seems like the two would have been natural rivals. Your top tier bowls look like this going into the Bowl Coalition/Alliance years:
Rose: Big 10 vs PAC 10
Cotton: SWC vs Big 8
Sugar: SEC vs At-large
Orange: At-large vs At-large
Your ACC champ and your northern and southern independents would all be jockeying for the last 3 spots (remember the ACC de-emphasized football for a few decades and was more at the level of the WAC prior to the Florida St add.
Let’s say, that after all the big independents get grabbed up in the early 90s the Orange grabs the ACC and Big East champs, and the lone at large berth is with the Sugar Bowl.
Barring additional expansion after 1992, you could play those 4 bowls, then pit the winners in a pair of semi finals and then a final.
Cotton being SWC vs Big 8 actually works even better and makes more sense.
Then when the Big 12 forms they partner with the SEC to have their champions play and the Cotton Bowl experiences the relegation they had in our current timeline.
I think Semifinals plus a final was a bridge to far back then
But if 4 of the top conferences had champion v champion matchups, there would have been many years where simply 1 more game would have been entirely logical.
Thus when confernce expansion occurred in the 90s and 00s and independence pretty much died, you're looking at without any type of formal alliance. No formal alliance, no need for "ACCESS" for non power conferences.
ROSE - Pac v Big 10
SUGAR - SEC v Big 12
ORANGE - ACC v Big East/ND
I could see a plus 1 being approved by the NCAA for the top 2 teams in whichever poll or formula is utilized after the Bowl games to play 2 or 3 weeks after NYD.
No exclusion occurs because any team can be ranked #1 and #2.
In practice it will be 2 of the big 3 winners 99% of the time
I actually find it quite surprising that the Orange/Sugar/Cotton and the Big 8/SWC/SEC/ACC never tried to create a permanent champion vs champion match up.
I think for a few years in the 50s the Orange had both the Big 8 and ACC and in some years you’d get an ACC vs SEC Sugar Bowl.
Personally, I think if you had more of these champion vs champion bowls it would have made things easier on the UPI, AP, and Coaches Polls.
(06-25-2021 03:30 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve wondered the same thing myself. It seems like the two would have been natural rivals. Your top tier bowls look like this going into the Bowl Coalition/Alliance years:
Rose: Big 10 vs PAC 10
Cotton: SWC vs Big 8
Sugar: SEC vs At-large
Orange: At-large vs At-large
Didn’t OP suggest Big XII v SEC?
Big 8 was still tied to the Orange Bowl in the Coalition.
That said, there were quite a few regular Big 8 vs SWC games:
Oklahoma-Texas
Mizzou-SMU
Kansas-TCU
Oklahoma St.-Arkansas
(06-25-2021 05:09 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]I actually find it quite surprising that the Orange/Sugar/Cotton and the Big 8/SWC/SEC/ACC never tried to create a permanent champion vs champion match up.
I think for a few years in the 50s the Orange had both the Big 8 and ACC and in some years you’d get an ACC vs SEC Sugar Bowl.
Personally, I think if you had more of these champion vs champion bowls it would have made things easier on the UPI, AP, and Coaches Polls.
The ACC had the original tie-in with the Orange Bowl.
I think the champ was declared before bowl games for many years too.
(06-26-2021 07:31 AM)esayem Wrote: [ -> ] (06-25-2021 03:30 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve wondered the same thing myself. It seems like the two would have been natural rivals. Your top tier bowls look like this going into the Bowl Coalition/Alliance years:
Rose: Big 10 vs PAC 10
Cotton: SWC vs Big 8
Sugar: SEC vs At-large
Orange: At-large vs At-large
Didn’t OP suggest Big XII v SEC?
Big 8 was still tied to the Orange Bowl in the Coalition.
That said, there were quite a few regular Big 8 vs SWC games:
Oklahoma-Texas
Mizzou-SMU
Kansas-TCU
Oklahoma St.-Arkansas
I misread the OP. Either way, paring the Big 8 champ with the SWC in the Cotton or with the SEC in the Sugar would have been pretty cool.
(06-25-2021 03:24 PM)esayem Wrote: [ -> ]Or what if instead of adding a “national championship” game, a plus-1 was adopted? That way the traditional bowl match-ups could have continued and after the dust settled the top two teams could be paired.
I was really surprised that The Powers That Be didn't do that when the CFP replaced the BCS. Let the conferences sign whatever bowls they could get, and after the bowls, match up #1 vs #2. Share less money with the non-power conferences.
It was looking like
Rose B1G vs PAC
Sugar SEC vs XII
Orange ACC vs At-Large.
So, basically, the committee or formula or whatever is picking 2 of the 3 winners of the Rose, Sugar and Orange Bowls.
I remember sketching it out in notebooks, even if you divide the NCG revenue equally among all FBS schools, the P5 come out ahead just because they're hoarding all of the money from the semifinals.
Honestly, they should have done a plus one all the way back in 1992 when the bowl coalition went into effect or in 1996 when we went from 7 major conferences to 6.
Imagine the implications if, in 1996, you had these bowl agreements in place and a plus 1:
Rose: Big 10 vs PAC 10
Sugar: SEC vs Big 12
Orange: ACC vs Big East
I wonder if that causes ND to reconsider independence if their ability to get in a major bowl was curtailed.
The problem of master-planning the bowl system back then was twofold:
First, independents were often in the mix. Notre Dame, Miami, Penn State, and Pitt won 10 national titles from 1973-1991. At least one of those teams (plus Florida State) were in the mix almost every year. Each of these schools negotiated its bowl invites individually.
Second, bowl invitations were often accepted before the final games of the regular season. A bowl might think it had a top-5 matchup secured, and then one of the teams loses the final 2 games of the regular season.
(06-26-2021 09:59 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, they should have done a plus one all the way back in 1992 when the bowl coalition went into effect or in 1996 when we went from 7 major conferences to 6.
Imagine the implications if, in 1996, you had these bowl agreements in place and a plus 1:
Rose: Big 10 vs PAC 10
Sugar: SEC vs Big 12
Orange: ACC vs Big East
I wonder if that causes ND to reconsider independence if their ability to get in a major bowl was curtailed.
Fiesta or Cotton would have taken them with a SEC/Big 10/Big 12 #2
(06-26-2021 09:59 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, they should have done a plus one all the way back in 1992 when the bowl coalition went into effect or in 1996 when we went from 7 major conferences to 6.
Imagine the implications if, in 1996, you had these bowl agreements in place and a plus 1:
Rose: Big 10 vs PAC 10
Sugar: SEC vs Big 12
Orange: ACC vs Big East
I wonder if that causes ND to reconsider independence if their ability to get in a major bowl was curtailed.
So you'd have:
Rose: #2 Arizona State vs. #4 Ohio State
Sugar: #3 Florida vs. #20 Texas
Orange: #1 Florida State vs. #10 Virginia Tech
So we know how the Rose turns out. I'm going to feel safe in assuming Florida clobbers Texas. So it comes down to FSU vs Virginia Tech. If FSU wins, then you're still looking at the rematch with Florida. If Virginia Tech wins, Ohio State vs Florida for the national championship.
But since Texas did upset Nebraska, let's game this out if they defeat Florida. If FSU wins, then you're at FSU-Ohio State. If FSU also loses, then it's Ohio State versus an at-large. The next highest ranked team in the poll was BYU at 14-1 followed by Nebraska at 11-2. Historically, BYU beat Kansas State by 5, while Nebraska clobbered Virginia Tech by 20. Most likely Nebraska would have played Penn State in the Fiesta Bowl if they were not in the Orange Bowl and Texas was in the Sugar. PSU clobbered Texas. PSU finished #7.
So it would seem like your options for the championship game if UF and FSU both lose are Ohio State versus BYU or more likely, the winner of Nebraska-Penn State in the Fiesta Bowl.
1996 is the season that made me support any system that got an actual national championship game. Florida did not deserve a rematch with FSU. FSU-Arizona State would have been a hell of a game.