In 1978 the WAC lost Arizona and ASU. They were down to 6 schools. So they added Air Force, Hawaii, San Diego St and UNLV—-UNLV was a conditional add who’s offer was reneged due to academic short falls. Let’s say the WAC adds them and they stay at 10 and had their NCAA championship basketball team (UNLV) in their ranks. In 1994 with the SWC falling apart the WAC could of stayed at 10 or went to 12 with TCU and Houston. A BCS league for sure in 98? Thoughts?
WAC Mountain: Utah, BYU, Wyoming, CSU, Air Force, Hawaii
WAC Southwest: TCU, Houston, UTEP, UNM, UNLV, SDSU
No, not a BCS league. None of those schools were in a BCS league. It's like the argument that adding G5 schools from the MWC to the G5 schools in the AAC somehow makes them all P-worthy.
(05-28-2021 10:16 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]No, not a BCS league. None of those schools were in a BCS league. It's like the argument that adding G5 schools from the MWC to the G5 schools in the AAC somehow makes them all P-worthy.
Different era. WAC was given the Cotton Bowl after SWC collapse and for nearly 20 years before that had the Holiday Bowl vs 2nd place Big 10 teams. Not like the “tweener” AAC of today by any means.
(05-28-2021 10:19 PM)billybobby777 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-28-2021 10:16 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote: [ -> ]No, not a BCS league. None of those schools were in a BCS league. It's like the argument that adding G5 schools from the MWC to the G5 schools in the AAC somehow makes them all P-worthy.
Different era. WAC was given the Cotton Bowl after SWC collapse and for nearly 20 years before that had the Holiday Bowl vs 2nd place Big 10 teams. Not like the “tweener” AAC of today by any means.
And yet they didn't make the BCS. I sincerely doubt that having a good
basketball school that they didn't have in our timeline would have been enough to elevate them to the uppermost tier of football conferences.
Part of going to 16 was to entice the power bowls to include them in the BCS. That means the 10-team WAC was at least 2 steps away from BCS-status. UNLV for FSU is a marginal step, not even sure if in the correct direction.
(05-28-2021 10:57 PM)Crayton Wrote: [ -> ]Part of going to 16 was to entice the power bowls to include them in the BCS. That means the 10-team WAC was at least 2 steps away from BCS-status. UNLV for FSU is a marginal step, not even sure if in the correct direction.
Or they stay at 9 and don’t add Fresno or UNLV. Just TCU for #10 in 96.
That conference stays together instead of falling apart in 98. The WAC’s downfall was adding all those extra schools they didn’t need like SJSU, Tulsa, Rice etc in 96. They had a good thing going at 9 schools.
Adding schools ruined them.
Hint to AAC: don’t add a bunch of schools outside your footprint/identity
UNLV didn’t get their basketball arena built in time and the offer was rescinded. I’m not sure Air Force was added until after that. They definitely weren’t added at the same time as the rest.
(05-29-2021 09:09 PM)esayem Wrote: [ -> ]UNLV didn’t get their basketball arena built in time and the offer was rescinded. I’m not sure Air Force was added until after that. They definitely weren’t added at the same time as the rest.
AZ & AZ St left in 1978.
San Diego St joined in 1978
Hawaii in 1979.
Air Force in 1980.
No other additions until the 90’s with a whopping 7 school add.
UNLV was going on Probation in 1992. Tark delayed it a couple years trying to claim Nevada Law shielded him. Everyone knew it was matter of time and UNLV could not be invited until he was gone and sanctions done. The sanctions came down in 1993 and were off by 1996 when they joined. (Also UNLV was not anything in football.)
The basic question is, could the WAC 16 have been avoided, and thus also the MWC break away? Possibly. Adding only TCU in 1996 would basically have gotten you there, although Hawaii was unwanted and still attached in all sports. So that would have been a problem.
The biggest problem however was a loss of support for Benson and a breakdown in communication between the schools in the WAC and what they wanted to do as opposed to what Benson wanted. That doesn't change.
If the WAC had just gone to 12 to get the championship game, they would have been OK
Hawaii, Fresno, SJSU, SDSU, UNLV, BYU
UTEP, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado St, Air Force, Wyoming
Guarantee the Utah game evey year and the gap between the other mountain schools isn't unbearable like it is in the WAC 16.
(05-30-2021 07:15 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]If the WAC had just gone to 12 to get the championship game, they would have been OK
Hawaii, Fresno, SJSU, SDSU, UNLV, BYU
UTEP, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado St, Air Force, Wyoming
Guarantee the Utah game evey year and the gap between the other mountain schools isn't unbearable like it is in the WAC 16.
Breakaway happens in any scenario BYU/UU/CSU/AFA/WYO aren’t all playing annually.
(05-30-2021 07:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ] (05-30-2021 07:15 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]If the WAC had just gone to 12 to get the championship game, they would have been OK
Hawaii, Fresno, SJSU, SDSU, UNLV, BYU
UTEP, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado St, Air Force, Wyoming
Guarantee the Utah game evey year and the gap between the other mountain schools isn't unbearable like it is in the WAC 16.
Breakaway happens in any scenario BYU/UU/CSU/AFA/WYO aren’t all playing annually.
Swap UTEP and BYU—problem solved.
(05-30-2021 08:46 AM)billybobby777 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-29-2021 09:09 PM)esayem Wrote: [ -> ]UNLV didn’t get their basketball arena built in time and the offer was rescinded. I’m not sure Air Force was added until after that. They definitely weren’t added at the same time as the rest.
AZ & AZ St left in 1978.
San Diego St joined in 1978
Hawaii in 1979.
Air Force in 1980.
No other additions until the 90’s with a whopping 7 school add.
Correct, but Air Force was not invited when SDSU, Hawaii, and UNLV were.
(05-28-2021 10:04 PM)billybobby777 Wrote: [ -> ]In 1978 the WAC lost Arizona and ASU. They were down to 6 schools. So they added Air Force, Hawaii, San Diego St and UNLV—-UNLV was a conditional add who’s offer was reneged due to academic short falls. Let’s say the WAC adds them and they stay at 10 and had their NCAA championship basketball team (UNLV) in their ranks. In 1994 with the SWC falling apart the WAC could of stayed at 10 or went to 12 with TCU and Houston. A BCS league for sure in 98? Thoughts?
Your premise is that the WAC add UNLV, but not add Fresno, a far superior football program. How does that help their chances to become an AQ conference in the BCS? Even by subsequently adding TCU and Houston (and only those two) they still aren't going to get AQ status.
(05-30-2021 03:37 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: [ -> ]UNLV was going on Probation in 1992. Tark delayed it a couple years trying to claim Nevada Law shielded him. Everyone knew it was matter of time and UNLV could not be invited until he was gone and sanctions done. The sanctions came down in 1993 and were off by 1996 when they joined. (Also UNLV was not anything in football.)
The basic question is, could the WAC 16 have been avoided, and thus also the MWC break away? Possibly. Adding only TCU in 1996 would basically have gotten you there, although Hawaii was unwanted and still attached in all sports. So that would have been a problem.
The biggest problem however was a loss of support for Benson and a breakdown in communication between the schools in the WAC and what they wanted to do as opposed to what Benson wanted. That doesn't change.
UNLV football did have some good years in the 80's with Randall Cunningham, but they were crap by the mid 90's.
(05-30-2021 03:37 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: [ -> ]UNLV was going on Probation in 1992. Tark delayed it a couple years trying to claim Nevada Law shielded him. Everyone knew it was matter of time and UNLV could not be invited until he was gone and sanctions done. The sanctions came down in 1993 and were off by 1996 when they joined. (Also UNLV was not anything in football.)
The basic question is, could the WAC 16 have been avoided, and thus also the MWC break away? Possibly. Adding only TCU in 1996 would basically have gotten you there, although Hawaii was unwanted and still attached in all sports. So that would have been a problem.
The biggest problem however was a loss of support for Benson and a breakdown in communication between the schools in the WAC and what they wanted to do as opposed to what Benson wanted. That doesn't change.
The ADs just wanted UNLV and TCU. The presidents threw in Rice, SMU, Tulsa and San Jose.
Maybe if they just added TCU, UNLV, SMU and San Jose and did a North/South split
North-BYU, Utah, Colorado St., Wyoming, Air Force, SMU, TCU
South-Hawaii, San Diego St., Fresno St., San Jose St., UNLV, New Mexico, UTEP
It was the split of the 5 mountain schools that triggered the breakaway.
(05-30-2021 07:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ] (05-30-2021 07:15 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]If the WAC had just gone to 12 to get the championship game, they would have been OK
Hawaii, Fresno, SJSU, SDSU, UNLV, BYU
UTEP, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado St, Air Force, Wyoming
Guarantee the Utah game evey year and the gap between the other mountain schools isn't unbearable like it is in the WAC 16.
Breakaway happens in any scenario BYU/UU/CSU/AFA/WYO aren’t all playing annually.
Frankly, I suspect the league would have been fine had it stuck with a traditional 2-division format rather than the ill-fated 4-team pods. With two 8-team divisions, the Airport 5 could have had their annual games against one another by simply placing them all in the same division. The 4-team pod structure meant that the 5 team group would not be able to count on annual games as one would always be left out of the group. I always thought the 16-team WAC was a much better football league than the basketball centric CUSA Houston chose to throw in with in the aftermath of the SWC implosion. While it was not a P5---it was much closer than CUSA.
(06-02-2021 10:16 AM)Attackcoog Wrote: [ -> ] (05-30-2021 07:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: [ -> ] (05-30-2021 07:15 PM)solohawks Wrote: [ -> ]If the WAC had just gone to 12 to get the championship game, they would have been OK
Hawaii, Fresno, SJSU, SDSU, UNLV, BYU
UTEP, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado St, Air Force, Wyoming
Guarantee the Utah game evey year and the gap between the other mountain schools isn't unbearable like it is in the WAC 16.
Breakaway happens in any scenario BYU/UU/CSU/AFA/WYO aren’t all playing annually.
Frankly, I suspect the league would have been fine had it stuck with a traditional 2-division format rather than the ill-fated 4-team pods. With two 8-team divisions, the Airport 5 could have had their annual games against one another by simply placing them all in the same division. The 4-team pod structure meant that the 5 team group would not be able to count on annual games as one would always be left out of the group. I always thought the 16-team WAC was a much better football league than the basketball centric CUSA Houston chose to throw in with in the aftermath of the SWC implosion. While it was not a P5---it was much closer than CUSA.
I agree, it's just really tough to keep those 5 together in the 16 team format when most of your additions are central and TX schools.